Bespoke Cutter And Tailor

Quote from: EvanTA on May 24, 2025, 06:08:40 AM

Quote from: Greger on May 24, 2025, 03:42:58 AMFuse destroys the purpose of the weave. Weave in cloth has purpose and you can take advantage of it. Find the best bias if that helps.

I thought about that, and what I imagined doing was only fusing it in certain parts so it would stick enough to simplify assembly, basting it in effect, while still allowing me to stretch/ease as needed to get the curved collar shape I ultimately want. It's an experiment, so maybe it won't work. I only bought a small amount to try this with, we'll see.

Iron the parts together with some spray starch... I will give hold enough for assembling and will go as you manipulate the piece...

Cheers, Hendrick

Quote from: Hendrick on May 24, 2025, 08:52:10 AMI have picked apart some old dress shrts in the past. The nicer numbers had a coarse but fluffy floating interlining, so anything but glazed!

I've also found that in American shirts. The collars and cuffs tended to be softer than those in the UK, which could be very rigid.

Nowadays in this country, school uniforms can be purchased from supermarkets or any number of outlets. When I was a kid, however, specialist suppliers had a monopoly on their sale. The collars of the shirts they sold were traditionally made and can only have had canvas in them; the sort that is glazed, because the shirting slid over the interfacing with no resistance whatsoever. Needless to say I was clueless about the correct way to iron them (I ironed all the family's shirts on Sundays to give my mother a break) so all the corners were wrinkled. The interfacing felt like stiff cardboard. Horrible stuff that made the skin of the neck sore. Nevertheless, that's what I associate with dress shirts (they're 'character building')! 

I have a vintage dress-shirt from the early-to-mid 60s: a round, tab-collar example, the sort worn by the Rolling Stones in the very early days. It has a really stiff collar (and I mean stiff!). No way am I taking it apart because it's NOS [EDIT: New Old Stock - it's not an obvious acronym apparently] and too nice to destroy. The interfacing is thick- probably buckram - despite the shirting being on the fine side, but there's no give to the cloth. It feels at one with the collar. Unlikely to have been fused, because that wasn't the norm then, but I'm wondering if some sort of glue wasn't used. Or simply that it was heavily starched and the starch adhered the cloth to the interfacing. The base of the collar has a curved 'lip' to it, so they must have had a press to shape and compress the whole collar. If anyone knows how to do this without a mould/press, I'm all ears. [EDIT: This is a photo taken by the seller that I saved (not a great quality pic):

A lot of 1920s repro shirts with round collars also have the same shaping:

revivalvintage.co.uk/products/byram-round-collar-shirt-flax-stripe

https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/1339045848/mens-edwardian-high-penny-collar-and-tab

https://vintagedancer.com/roaring-1920s-mens-shirts/

Some sort of press is being used?

Well I never!

Quote from: Gerry on May 24, 2025, 05:34:23 PMThe base of the collar has a curved 'lip' to it, so they must have had a press to shape and compress the whole collar.
If anyone knows how to do this without a mould/press, I'm all ears.

This is just a guess, but could you turn the collar up, then press from the back side over a ham?

Quote from: jruley on May 24, 2025, 09:34:26 PM

Quote from: Gerry on May 24, 2025, 05:34:23 PMThe base of the collar has a curved 'lip' to it, so they must have had a press to shape and compress the whole collar.
If anyone knows how to do this without a mould/press, I'm all ears.

This is just a guess, but could you turn the collar up, then press from the back side over a ham?

It's a thought Jim, but I think even a ham will be too flat. The lip is right at the edge of the collar and it's quite pronounced.

I'm pretty sure that large shirt-manufacturers have specialist presses to do this, but that video I posted pretty much shows how to do it with a domestic iron. I always wondered what the slot at the front was for. 

Grandpa had a wooden sleeve roll. A press mitt. His tailors ham was shapeable. It wasn't stuffed with cedar sawdust or jammed full of wool. There are different opinions about pressing. For him the cloth comes with the weave pressed "set" flat. When leaves as a finished coat nowhere is the set flat. Every curve is to enhance the person wearing the coat. Cotton shirts, being washed so often, is an excellent item to learn shaping curves that are comfortable to wear and enhance the person looks who will wear it.

Some cloths, when layered, the underside shrinks the most. This knowledge is useful for creating curves. The inside cloth of the curves needs to be smaller when finished. If pressing both sides press the inside first then from the outside.

Quote from: EvanTA on May 24, 2025, 06:08:40 AM

Quote from: Greger on May 24, 2025, 03:42:58 AMFuse destroys the purpose of the weave. Weave in cloth has purpose and you can take advantage of it. Find the best bias if that helps.

I thought about that, and what I imagined doing was only fusing it in certain parts so it would stick enough to simplify assembly, basting it in effect, while still allowing me to stretch/ease as needed to get the curved collar shape I ultimately want. It's an experiment, so maybe it won't work. I only bought a small amount to try this with, we'll see.

As time with the skills that come with it try eyeballing and depend less and less on gimmicks. Gimmicks help us to create nice things but as skills develop let artistry take over.

Quote from: Gerry on May 24, 2025, 09:41:08 PM

Quote from: jruley on May 24, 2025, 09:34:26 PM

Quote from: Gerry on May 24, 2025, 05:34:23 PMThe base of the collar has a curved 'lip' to it, so they must have had a press to shape and compress the whole collar.
If anyone knows how to do this without a mould/press, I'm all ears.

This is just a guess, but could you turn the collar up, then press from the back side over a ham?

It's a thought Jim, but I think even a ham will be too flat. The lip is right at the edge of the collar and it's quite pronounced.

I'm pretty sure that large shirt-manufacturers have specialist presses to do this, but that video I posted pretty much shows how to do it with a domestic iron. I always wondered what the slot at the front was for. 

Specialised formpressing systems by Veith but also Pony of Italy (as well as asian knock off's I guess) are widely used for collars and cuffs. Many manufacturers often create their own custom cushions for these as forms vary...

Cheers, Hendrick

Quote from: Hendrick on May 25, 2025, 07:31:10 AMSpecialised formpressing systems by Veith but also Pony of Italy (as well as asian knock off's I guess) are widely used for collars and cuffs. Many manufacturers often create their own custom cushions for these as forms vary...

Thank you for confirming that Hendrick. I've watched videos on youtube showing shirt production in huge, modern factories and the degree of automation and specialised equipment is staggering. Likewise the results: it's difficult to compete with the precision and finish of a shirt that's almost totally machine made! Thankfully, fit and style are something we still have some control over.

Quote from: Greger on May 25, 2025, 04:56:58 AM

Quote from: EvanTA on May 24, 2025, 06:08:40 AM

Quote from: Greger on May 24, 2025, 03:42:58 AMFuse destroys the purpose of the weave. Weave in cloth has purpose and you can take advantage of it. Find the best bias if that helps.

I thought about that, and what I imagined doing was only fusing it in certain parts so it would stick enough to simplify assembly, basting it in effect, while still allowing me to stretch/ease as needed to get the curved collar shape I ultimately want. It's an experiment, so maybe it won't work. I only bought a small amount to try this with, we'll see.

As time with the skills that come with it try eyeballing and depend less and less on gimmicks. Gimmicks help us to create nice things but as skills develop let artistry take over.

Totally - I'm trying things, some may work some won't, that's fine, in the meantime I've committed more time and I'm learning.

Quote from: Gerry on May 25, 2025, 07:55:09 AM

Quote from: Hendrick on May 25, 2025, 07:31:10 AMSpecialised formpressing systems by Veith but also Pony of Italy (as well as asian knock off's I guess) are widely used for collars and cuffs. Many manufacturers often create their own custom cushions for these as forms vary...

Thank you for confirming that Hendrick. I've watched videos on youtube showing shirt production in huge, modern factories and the degree of automation and specialised equipment is staggering. Likewise the results: it's difficult to compete with the precision and finish of a shirt that's almost totally machine made! Thankfully, fit and style are something we still have some control over.

That, and the fact that the "hand of the maker" is obviously missing in a handmade shirt of course...

Cheers, Hendrick

Quote from: Hendrick on May 30, 2025, 08:32:49 AM

Quote from: Gerry on May 25, 2025, 07:55:09 AM

Quote from: Hendrick on May 25, 2025, 07:31:10 AMSpecialised formpressing systems by Veith but also Pony of Italy (as well as asian knock off's I guess) are widely used for collars and cuffs. Many manufacturers often create their own custom cushions for these as forms vary...

Thank you for confirming that Hendrick. I've watched videos on youtube showing shirt production in huge, modern factories and the degree of automation and specialised equipment is staggering. Likewise the results: it's difficult to compete with the precision and finish of a shirt that's almost totally machine made! Thankfully, fit and style are something we still have some control over.

That, and the fact that the "hand of the maker" is obviously missing in a handmade shirt of course...

Cheers, Hendrick

Woops: That, and the fact that the "hand of the maker" is obviously missing in an automated shirt of course...

Quote from: Hendrick on May 30, 2025, 08:32:49 AMThat, and the fact that the "hand of the maker" is obviously missing in a handmade shirt of course...

Do you mean like this Hand? 

Quote from: Hendrick on May 30, 2025, 08:34:54 AMThat, and the fact that the "hand of the maker" is obviously missing in an automated shirt of course...

Content warning: minor rant ahead.

Bypassing the hand of the maker isn't always a bad thing, frankly! I follow a well known shirt manufacturer on X. Last year they posted a tweet about a cuff they're famous for accompanied by a publicity photo. After expanding the image I noticed that the top-stitching was abysmal. Said shirt was several hundred pounds.

Personally, I find some of the 'name' shirtmakers a bit of a con. They take great pride in the fact that they use single-needle machines for every stage of production; though some of the techniques they use, I would put in the 'quick-and-dirty' category. Somehow, using industry-standard (as in ready-to-wear) work practices from the middle of the last century is virtuous. They're basically saying that they're too backward-thinking to invest in modern technology.

I can understand that mentality from smaller makers because they don't have the cash to invest in expensive machinery; but the larger 'bespoke' brands would really benefit from rethinking their production methods. They could offer better-made shirts at a much cheaper price; yet they would still have the edge in terms of fit and quality of raw materials. They make a 100% machined product anyway, so they have nothing to gain by living in the past.

Were I a consumer, I'd go to a tailor to make my shirts. A tailor is more likely to put in the work: the care and attention needed to produce a beautiful end-result. Though even then some fall at the last hurdle by not pre-shrinking cloth properly.

Shirt-making is a very grey area. A lot of consumers are getting ripped off one way or another.