Shirt *Construction* techniques

[jruley]

Looking at US terminology, the nearest thing would probably be unbleached Muslin with a tighter weave than cheesecloth. In the UK Muslin tends to have a sheer quality, and is also referred to as cheesecloth. Calico is denser and it has a little 'spring' (stiffnesses).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calico#

The UK calico sample shown in the article you linked doesn't look like anything marked "muslin" I've seen in a fabric store.  I think I've seen bags made from it (another use mentioned in the article) but haven't seen it for sale.  I've used thin synthetic material (fusible and sew-in) for shirt collar and cuff interfacing and would like to find something better.

[Gerry]

The UK calico sample shown in the article you linked doesn't look like anything marked "muslin" I've seen in a fabric store.  I think I've seen bags made from it (another use mentioned in the article) but haven't seen it for sale.

That photo looks more like the bleached stuff. Calico has a slight yellow look to it:

https://www.williamgee.co.uk/shop/calico-unbleached-medium-6020/

It's slightly stiff, but softens with wear, and is similar to cotton canvas that tote bags are made from, only thinner/finer.

It's typically used for toiles. Some people use it for interfacing, but it's by no means a quality product. I happen to like it, plus it's durable, but it's just cheap cotton at the end of the day. Not really suitable for dress shirts, unless you like a soft feel.

[Gerry]

This looks like calico and is the right weight too, just hunt for 'unbleached muslin':

https://www.onlinefabricstore.com/48-inch-unbleached-cotton-muslin-fabric-.htm

You can see from the vid that it has some rigidity. Nasty, cheap as chips (as we say in the UK) ... but that's how I like it! 

[peterle]

Funny how the names of fabric differ. A lot of fake twins.
In German Musselin is a light and soft but not sheer cotton or wool fabric in plain weave, usually printed and used for dresses.
Chinz is used for all cottons with a permanent shiny (wax) finish, no matter wether it is patterend or not.
The all purpose cheap unbleached cotton fabric with some hulls is called Nessel in German although it is not made from nettle fiber anymore. It is so common that a toile is called Nesselmodell.
The term toile is used only when speaking of Toile du jour, the fabric printed with pastoral scenes or Toile de soie, a light but dense silk fabric for shirts and blouses.
Kaliko is a heavily seized plain cotton weave only used in bookbinding.

[Hendrick]

Funny how the names of fabric differ. A lot of fake twins.
In German Musselin is a light and soft but not sheer cotton or wool fabric in plain weave, usually printed and used for dresses.
Chinz is used for all cottons with a permanent shiny (wax) finish, no matter wether it is patterend or not.
The all purpose cheap unbleached cotton fabric with some hulls is called Nessel in German although it is not made from nettle fiber anymore. It is so common that a toile is called Nesselmodell.
The term toile is used only when speaking of Toile du jour, the fabric printed with pastoral scenes or Toile de soie, a light but dense silk fabric for shirts and blouses.
Kaliko is a heavily seized plain cotton weave only used in bookbinding.

And in French "mousseline" is a lightweight silk that in the US is called "chiffon", which is french for "cleaning cloth". The Dutch imported "chintzes" from Indonesia, blockprinted  batik cotton sheets the size of bedsheets, to drape over their furniture. Liverpudlian and Mancunian greygoods traders called the light printable cottons "cotton lawn". French call those cottons "percale". French often call toile de soie (the dense poplin-like silk) "habotai" after the japanese. In french, cotton canvas is called "toile de bache", meaning tarpcloth. They often call plain, Chanel style fabrics "serpilliere", french for "floormop". There is a French mill in Rouen that produces greygoods like "toile de moulage" for draping in various weights. They also produce unbleached "bakers'cloth" and "butchers'cloth".

Cheers, Hendrick

[Schneiderfrei]

Many years ago an old friend had made an astonishing collection of clothing, chiefly from the 1920's. when she died it was curated into 3 national collections. Her name was Sophie van Rood. She lived in Adelaisde Australia. In the early 1980's she sold shirts from the 1930's in their unopened packets. She'd collected them in the day when she was a groovy young radio announcer in London. (Her husband to be was a young dutch medical student. In 1939, when war was declared he signed up to the airforce and became a spitfire pilot. Peter was quickly shot down, and ended up in Colditz he was known as Good Time Charlie Goonstein, since he was the brewer of Colditz.)

Sophie showed me parts of he collection sometimes, there was a very exotic cloth called linen gauze or linen muslin - I think the former. Much stiffer than cotton gauze, used in womens garments to make texture.

[Greger]

Gauze is used for wrapping wounds in the US. The old bandages, for a small cut or scrape, the liquids, blood, etc., would seep into the gauze. To pull it off the next day to reclean the wound wound would be rather painful.

[Gerry]

Couturiers sometimes use calico/muslin for structure in dresses. It's certainly common in women's jackets, used in lieu of linen when taping the front canvases - though they cut round the outside shape of the canvas then reduce the muslin in width to the size of a tape. So much muslin is used for toiles that someone, some day, probably decided to save money and recycle it. Or they worked with it so much in the test stage that they grew to understand its potential as a stiffener.

That's certainly my experience. Recently I've been cloning vintage collars (though I still haven't found the time to make any - too busy with trousers this year!). Prior to that I used to drape them - make a basic blank, wear it, draw in some shape on the cloth and start cutting. I used calico/muslin for the draping stage and began to appreciate just how well it kept the shape of a collar (no collapsing, as happened when using bits of scrap cloth).

Historically, coat makers used linen canvas as an interfacing because it was inexpensive. Why spend money on something that is never going to be seen? Over the years the mills developed the canvases to meet the demands of tailors and it's now a 'special' cloth; and, ironically, quite pricey. I resent that somehow. 

[Hendrick]

The innards of couture pieces vary greatly, to speak with Cole Porter; anything goes. I've seen full, deep pleated skirtparts that were entirely "doubled" with cotton muslin; the pleat construction and the fixation to the hem forcing it into place. It will also "silence" fabrics like taffeta; who's sound is called "singing" in french.  Most used was "crin", originally with some animal hair woven with linnen, it is loosely woven but quite stiff. Similar is used for the corsages (bodices) of wedding gowns, but nowadays it is sadly usually made of nylon (...)

Cheers, Hendrick

[EvanTA]

I tried sew-in interfacing (https://www.wawak.com/garment-construction/interfacing/sew-in/pellon-pls36-light-weight-non-woven-sew-in-interfacing-15-x-3-yds-white/#sku=intf42wh) for the collar of this dress shirt I'm still working on and it worked OK in terms of providing structure, but it was this sort of gauzy material so behaved strangely. I don't think I'll use it again. I just bought some of a fusible kind from biasbespoke to try for the next shirt: https://www.biasbespoke.com/ff-3170-white-cotton-hdpe-interlining-for-shirt-collars-44-wide. I'm still experimenting so I'll see if I like this, and if so try to find a substitute that gives similar qualities but perhaps is cheaper. I'm still just in the phase of "reliably make a decent collar" before I start to fine-tune and improve it.

[Gerry]

I tried sew-in interfacing ... it was this sort of gauzy material so behaved strangely. I don't think I'll use it again.

Years ago I bought some 'shirt collar canvas' that had a gauze-like weave. It was quite thin and flexible so I didn't use it; plus it had that glassy feel that I was complaining about earlier.

It's really difficult finding a decent interfacing for a dress collar. A lot of canvas has the right stiffness, but it's too slippery for my liking. It's just as well that I mostly make casual shirts. Buckram is the best stuff I've found so far. It can produce a decent dress-shirt collar, but it's a little on the thick side and not to everyone's liking. Curtain shops sell it by the metre from narrow rolls, so it's easy to find, cheap and a strip is usually wide enough for collar and cuffs. Maculloch and Wallis in the UK sell shirt collar canvas [edit: though I couldn't find it on their website - they may have discontinued it] that is full-width and identical, so probably buckram; but it's cheaper to buy it in strips (unless you're making multiple shirts).

Curtain places also sell a type of buckram that's used in pelmets that is incredibly thick. Make sure you don't accidentally order that if buying online! Also, one needs to make sure the stuff is 100% cotton, not some synthetic crap.

Personally, I wouldn't sew it into seams, it's a bit too thick for that. Glue basting would be the best way to go. I do have some fusible buckram somewhere (also sold by curtain shops), but unless you've got a press the adhesion isn't very good.

[Greger]

Fuse destroys the purpose of the weave. Weave in cloth has purpose and you can take advantage of it. Find the best bias if that helps.

Instead of canvas maybe a couple of layers of shirting or pocketing, if you want it that thick. If you want shape don't sew it flat. Put the desired curve in it and press with desired curves in it, too.

Anyone try Wigan "wiggin"? It should be cotton. It is nice for the bottom of coat sleeves with a little bit of shape pressed into it.

[Gerry]

Fuse destroys the purpose of the weave. Weave in cloth has purpose and you can take advantage of it. Find the best bias if that helps.

I hate using fusing. Even if it's the woven stuff, you can't pre-shrink it because contact with water weakens the glue. And there will be some shrinkage (even if minor it can cause a problem).

[EvanTA]

Fuse destroys the purpose of the weave. Weave in cloth has purpose and you can take advantage of it. Find the best bias if that helps.

I thought about that, and what I imagined doing was only fusing it in certain parts so it would stick enough to simplify assembly, basting it in effect, while still allowing me to stretch/ease as needed to get the curved collar shape I ultimately want. It's an experiment, so maybe it won't work. I only bought a small amount to try this with, we'll see.

[Hendrick]

I have picked apart some old dress shrts in the past. The nicer numbers had a coarse but fluffy floating interlining, so anything but glazed! It had a sort of dusting cloth fluffyness and softness. The flannel sort of surface slightly sticks to the outer fabric, a bit like domette and wadding do. French sometimes call "non noble" square weaves "cretonne"; it is made with cotton waste and sometimes brushed. It also bulks the seams. Almost all the "gabbies", typical 50's gabardine sportshirts (brands like Mcgregor, Towncraft, Sears and the like) but also dress shirts had this kind of interlining. Many of these shirts and overshirts were in heavy rayons, called "fibranne" in france. It was also used (bias cut) inside waistband facings and linings in dress trousers.

Cheers, Hendrick