Bespoke Cutter And Tailor

For Gerry:

The neck seams are in fact turned back and basted over a tape as in the first toile.  You might be seeing the tape right on the edge of the hole on the right side.  That's because the right shoulder came out a little narrow in the draft (don't know why), so I split the difference and positioned it on the middle of the back shoulder rather than line up the edges at the neck.  I was going to treat that as the seam line and adjust the pattern, but I can shift the tape or shift the whole seam so the edges of the neckhole line up if that's the right thing to do.

I'm a little bit reluctant to change the neckhole because I have a well proven collar pattern that works.  I can do the next fitting over a T-shirt to see if the sweater is causing problems.

Since we're talking about the collar here are few pictures of the existing style, worn over that same pesky sweatjumper:







This jacket is a similar weight wool to what I'll be using for the coat.  Top collar is a thinner wool with a finer finish.

This collar can also be worn up:







I think it works well, and it's comfortable - but tell me what you see.

QuoteI'm a little bit reluctant to change the neckhole because I have a well proven collar pattern that works.

Jim, all I can say is that your existing toile has a problem; and by the look of things, you had the same problem with the original design. Look at the neckline with the collar turned up:



It has a slight, diagonal slant, just like your toile. The yolk has a similar slant too. Is it well proven?

Even if your body has a slight lilt, the garment will look better if it doesn't. Balance lines and horizontal seams need to be level with the floor and you need to do whatever it takes to make that happen. Of course you can ignore these signals. Your new coat may look OK, but it will look/fit a hell of a lot better by getting the balance right. And just think how it would look in its current incarnation with patterned cloth.

The last toile I made looked as if it had been in a warzone. Pockmarked all over from needle scars (I machine basted a lot of it); slashes to the armholes and neck; biro marks here, there and everywhere; wrinkled from multiple try-ons. There's no need to be precious about your test garment, be bold and experiment.

When adapting a coat from a shirt pattern, extra width is require at the neck to allow room for the undergarment (invariably a shirt). Similarly, when adapting a coat pattern to an overcoat, further neck width is required to allow the jacket's collar to 'breath'. In this case you need a little more room for your jumper; and for the jacket to hang more from the shoulders, not just towards the sides of the neck.

When I make a toile, I iron the left bottom stand inwards so I can match the center lines more precisely. I also pin it close up to the neck, because this reveals eventual issues with the neck hole. I also prefer a shirt with collar for fitting, because it's collar sits better in place. A sweater shifts, is bumpy or has a too wide neck hole.
Regarding neck hole width: For my 100cm chest measure the back neck construction width (W-h in the posted patter) is:
shirt:7,5cm
Vest, lounge coat: 8cm
Overcoat: 8,5cm

This evening's changes:

- Right shoulder seam has been matched at the neckhole. 
- 1/4" width has been added to the sides and front of the neckhole, graduating to nothing at the nape, taped, turned and basted.
- Left button stand has been pressed under at the centerline and basted down
- A small bit of width (1/2" total) has been pinned out of the right back between the chest and waist lines.

Tell me what you think.

Pinned:

Unpinned:

That's much better Jim, well done for persevering. A couple of very minor points:

Firstly, pin the bottom of your fronts too. As things stand, the fronts look fairly balanced when 'unbuttoned' so I don't think there's a further problem. However, because you left that area open when 'buttoned' (pinned), the LHS swayed out a little, giving the false impression of a balance problem. I don't think there's any real issue here, but it does make fitting evaluations easier.

Secondly, if I were draping this, then once the balance lines were looking good, I'd literally take an erasable pen or pencil and draw in the lines that I want to see. This sort of thing (but hopefully done better - the limitations of using MS Paint!):





That curve in the last snap would be mirrored on the RHS, BTW. And the line in the first snap wouldn't be so straight (though hopefully it's highlighting better symmetry).

When happy with the results, cut away the surplus cloth and transfer the new lines to your pattern. You can always skip the first step if you're uncertain about the shape (at least you'll still have cloth to play around with). As things stand, you have a little asymmetry that needs tidying up. I must reiterate though, this stage is only done once the balance is looking good.

PS I'd recommend watching some elementary draping vids on youtube. Plus some advanced ones, just for inspiration. Your front darts could be pinned (you'll get the best results that way); and in an ideal world, your back too ... but difficult to do oneself.

Either way, you'll see just how bold drapers can be when working with toiles. Don't be afraid to try stuff out. It's just cheap cloth, we can always start anew if things don't go well.

Another tiny observation. I might be wrong, but I'm guessing that your darts are about a quarter to 3/8ths outside of each apex. Feel where each apex (nipple) is and measure between the two. Halve that distance and bring it out from the CF in both directions, to mark the vertical drop of each dart.

It's not that critical here, this is more of an aesthetic thing. Using definite points of the body as references for seams/darts/suppression etc always (well, mostly) looks better.

Thanks Gerry, especially for your persistence about widening the neckhole.  That made all the difference.

I don't understand what you are trying to do with the front neckline.  Does it need to be lower, more scooped out, or what?

Quote from: jruley on November 29, 2024, 10:02:12 PMI don't understand what you are trying to do with the front neckline.  Does it need to be lower, more scooped out, or what?

This is nothing to do with fit, it's pure aesthetics. Comparing the left side of the neck hole to the right, there's some aymmetry of shape, which needs addressing. And while we're at it, we might as well make the neck hole look nicer.

The curvature that I drew in is what I would want to see on the garment. And if it's a little deeper, so be it. That wasn't the aim, but you can see that by lowering the neck hole slightly it allows the shirt collar to breathe a little. It just looks better to my eyes.

It's up to you how you shape and neck hole of course, but as things stand you've got some asymmetry at the front and at the back; and that definitely needs sorting out.

You can still retain height at the front, of course, as this photo of the collarless Cardin jacket demonstrates; but you still need a nice, symmetrical-looking (despite what your body is doing) shape.

https://uk.pinterest.com/pin/595741856931485839/

You can also see in the above the width needed at the sides of the neck to allow undergarments to breath, and for the hang to be more from the shoulders, rather than getting 'caught' at the neck. The width is more visible on the subject's LHS, because their head is turned to the right, but hopefully you can see what I'm driving at.

Thanks Gerry.

Before fine tuning the neckline, I thought I would try to take some more width out of the right side seam to clean up that side of the back.  I made a few tries, and this one looks best to me.  The body lines all seem to be horizontal, but one thing that concerns me a little is the coat isn't sitting into my back.  Also the front skirts seem to want to swing open a little at the front.

Have I taken out too much width, or maybe in the wrong place?

Instead of pins, I basted some short Velcro strips to the fronts.  This allows minor repositioning - plus my wife is much happier 

Same alteration, unfastened:









Tell me what you see, please.