More Casual Jacket Fun

[Gerry]

You're getting there Jim. Obviously pinning the shoulder has helped a lot with the balance lines, especially at the back (nice and horizontal there). However, it's possible that your front on the left hand side could do with dropping, uniformly, at the shoulder seam by the slightest amount.

In all the photos, it's slightly raised. Especially in profile, where there's a clear imbalance (front higher than back, creating a slight diagonal). Because of this slight hight difference, the RHS front is being pulled up a little at the CF when buttoned.

Having said that, it could just be misalignment of your buttons and buttonholes. Take the buttons off and pin the fronts closed, matching the horizontal balance lines. If that improves things, then we've solved the problem. Otherwise, you need a little more length on the RHS.

If it comes to making the adjustment, don't forget that the seamline for the back shoulder remains untouched. Just need a little more length on the front. Difficult to judge, but try a quarter of an inch to begin with. Rip the shoulder and pin the seams wrong sides together. Adjust till happy.

[Gerry]

PS If you do end up adjusting the seam, obviously don't use the buttons. They're going to be out of whack. Which is why pinning is best when making toiles. Again, match the horizontal balance points then pin the front closed.

[jruley]

Trying Gerry's shoulder alteration, with the left (wearer's left) front lowered 1/4" on the back.

Pinned closed:

[jruley]

Unpinned:









The front chest line seems more level now.  OTOH the left shoulder is a little baggy, and the left front droops when the toile is unpinned.

[Gerry]

The left front is now swinging open when unbuttoned. Ordinarily, I'd say to pick up the front at the neck only, to balance the hem. However, the front balance lines are still a little higher than the back's when seen in profile. So I'd drop the shoulder tip a tiny amount on the left, to get that front evened out when unbuttoned. Then probably drop the whole RHS front uniformly by a similar amount too.

Adjustment is going to be easier and quicker if you pin those seams.

[peterle]

The shoulder alteration did work. Don't forget to deepen the arm hole for the same amount you pinned away.
The fronts:I'm pretty sure now the "dart" originally was just a vertical slash that opend when pinching the pattern at the arm hole. Thus the cleanest way to draft it for the long pattern is to draw a right angled line to the chest line. Each leg perpendicular to it's part of the chest line. They meet at the kink point of the chest line.
As you can see in your last set of pics, this takes a bit of width and the coat is a bit too tight over the belly. Lowest button and button hole don't meet.
I think you need a slight belly pattern and need a pattern where the belly point lies forward to the chest point. So you can add the missing width (1,5 to 2cm?)at the center front line at the belly point. Connect the new point to your chest point. To draw the lower part of the new CF line, mark the spot where the new line would meet the hem line. Half the distance of the old and new hem point and connect to the belly point. Add the button stand to the new CF line.

In this slight belly cut coat patter you can see the CF line H-B-U-L

[jruley]

A little more shoulder work before drafting the new fronts.

Following Gerry's direction, I let more out of the left shoulder at the tip, graduating the original 1/2" seam allowance from nothing at the tip to 1/4 at the neck. Obviously I can't let any more out of this front without adding material to the shoulder.

This looked better tried on, but I noticed the top of the shoulder was getting loose and floppy because of the extra length.  So, I pinned out a small wedge along the natural shoulder line.

I did not change the right shoulder, it seemed low enough already with the wedge pinned in the left shoulder.

Here is the result pinned together:

[jruley]

And here unbuttoned:









What I propose to do now is draw up the new fronts, incorporating the new shoulder seam location (natural shoulder line) and the changes we have made.  Should be able to re-use the backs with the new shoulder edge location marked.

If anyone would like to see something else first, please let me know.

[Gerry]

Well done Jim, that's looking much better.

The perfectionist in me would still like to see the fronts dropped a miniscule amount, to get the balance a little more level in profile, but if you've run out of cloth at the shoulder ... obviously leave more inlay at the seams for future toiles. To paraphrase the late, great Edward Sexton - I have to rely on his knowledge, because I'm not a coat maker! - it's all about the shoulders. Get the hang right and everything else - suppression, darts, length etc - as important as it all is, becomes secondary 'detail'.

When the neck opening is on the narrow side, a coat can end up hanging from neck rather than the whole shoulder. That's possibly why you had such a dramatic swing of the LHS front with such a minor alteration. It seems to be under control now though.  Pinning out the shoulder was a good idea. I love the draping approach to fitting. Whatever it takes to get results, is whatever it takes.

[jruley]

Here is the new belly cut front pattern, and the upper part of the backs showing the alterations (blue dashed lines) to relocate the shoulder seam.

If anyone sees a problem, please let me know.





Tomorrow is Thanksgiving Day over here.  In addition to many other things, I am thankful for all the help so generously provided on this forum  .

[jruley]

New fronts are done and sewn to the backs.  I'm sure there will be corrections, but overall it follows the body without dragging on the belly.

Pinned together:

[jruley]

Unpinned:









Two things I've noticed:

- it seems to hang better unpinned

- the right back in the side seam area is getting sloppy looking (yes, I deepened the armhole  )

[peterle]

Looks quite good I think. The chest doesn't collapse anymore bcause there is enough space for the belly.
You're right, the right side I a bit messy and the right side seam swings forward.
It looks as if it has too much width. Looking on your back and side panel pattern, it seems to me, the right side is wider. Is this true?

Happy turkey, by the way😄

[Gerry]

IMO you really need to widen the neck to make allowance for the jumper you're wearing. Presumably you intend to wear the finished coat with such a nice, warm layer; in which case you have to cater to it. Otherwise, take it off for the fitting.

If you look at the back, the neckline is at a slight diagonal and the shoulder seams mostly hang from the sides of the neck. Things are catching there, especially on the LHS, and preventing a proper hang. Probably why we're back to a slanted, horizontal balance on the fronts, face-on; and possibly why the fronts are raised relative to the back (slanted balance lines from front-to-back). A little more width will probably release that tension and the fronts will hopefully drop and feel/look more comfortable.

It's important not to take anything off the nape when widening the neck, otherwise the collar can detach at the back. Just shave some material from the sides. You can even get away with taking a little off the fronts at the base of the neck, if you need to give the opening more natural curvature, for aesthetics.

You'll probably have to re-pin the shoulders (especially on the LHS) afterwards, but I think the narrowness is causing problems and I've encountered this myself. And don't worry about gapping at the sides. Don't forget that you're going to be dealing with quite thick cloth for a coat, so you need a little more space around the neck so that you don't end up with an overly-fitted collar. Plus the neck-opening of your jumper needs some space (and will also fill any resultant gap).

At the very least, turn in your neck seams and baste them again (that alone might help).

[jruley]

You're right, the right side is a bit messy and the right side seam swings forward.
It looks as if it has too much width. Looking on your back and side panel pattern, it seems to me, the right side is wider. Is this true?

Along the waist line, the backs are the same width.
The right side panel has about 1/2" more width than the left.
The right front has about 1" more width than the left.

I believe this extra width goes all the way back the shirt pattern this was derived from, and was added to prevent dragging on the right hip.