Author Topic: Jacket Toile Fit Check  (Read 36755 times)

jruley

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 536
  • Human Being
Re: Jacket Toile Fit Check
« Reply #45 on: March 22, 2016, 03:14:10 PM »
First, I checked the neck seam to see if it had stretched significantly.  It hadn't, but I stayed it with a piece of tape anyway.

Next I tried peterle's suggested adjustments to the back.  Rather than piece in an actual strip of material, I ripped out the seam, and passed the back up on the side body.  I tried moving it 3/8" (1 cm) and 3/4" (2 cm).   Neither case cleaned up the lower back.  Also the top of back wrinkled and the lapels began to be loose.  So I don't think it's simply a balance problem.

Here is the smaller amount:





[IMGhttp://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w315/ruleyjm/lb2_zps73plnego.jpg]http://[/img]



And the larger:








« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 04:56:38 AM by jruley »

jruley

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 536
  • Human Being
Re: Jacket Toile Fit Check
« Reply #46 on: March 22, 2016, 03:21:03 PM »
Next, I tried displacing the head of the side bodies backwards.  This is mentioned in several sources as beneficial for diagonal drags, at least in certain cases.  The canvas drill in my mockup will take moderate ironwork, so I stretched the side seam as shown below (red underneath is the pattern piece):



Here the streched sidebodies are pinned back into the coat.  Not the "magic bullet" I had hoped for, but it does change the nature of the problem:









jruley

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 536
  • Human Being
Re: Jacket Toile Fit Check
« Reply #47 on: March 22, 2016, 03:27:13 PM »
Here I decided to try to clean up the left-right asymmetry in the back by taking a little out of the upper part of the side body.  This was suggested by Whife's dropped shoulder correction but I had neglected it.  It seems to have helped the back.  I don't think the pulling away of the collar on the left is real; I must have put the coat on sloppily.









jruley

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 536
  • Human Being
Re: Jacket Toile Fit Check
« Reply #48 on: March 22, 2016, 03:33:22 PM »
Finally, I tried adjusting balance again by moving the front up and down at the front of the side body.  After a number of attempts the alteration shown seemed to give the best result:
- front moved down 3/8"
- 3/8" pinned horizontally out of the upper back, to keep it from wrinkling.









« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 04:57:15 AM by jruley »

Schneiderfrei

  • Research
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 800
  • Resembles Human Being
Re: Jacket Toile Fit Check
« Reply #49 on: March 22, 2016, 08:49:40 PM »
Those front part diagonal creases are much better in the last 2 sets of images it looks more balanced too.

TTailor

  • Venerable Member
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 268
  • There is no formula!
    • A Tailor Made It
Re: Jacket Toile Fit Check
« Reply #50 on: March 22, 2016, 10:11:33 PM »
I think you are changing way too many things too much.
I am going to talk about the first set of changes, passing the back up 1 cm.
You gain that amount right across the back, but you don't need it at the armhole, so you can either increase the shoulder padding slightly to take up the excess, or dart out some or all of the excess and transfer the dart to the shoulder, in other words it increases the amount you need to ease the back shoulder in.

Second thing is the back neck.
How big is your actual neck?
Using the formula based on the chest scale looks too wide. You could try 1/6 of the working scale, or go even smaller.

You need to pinch out a vertical dart below the pocket/ donlon wedge to remove the fluting in the front skirt area.



peterle

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 388
  • Experienced Professional
Re: Jacket Toile Fit Check
« Reply #51 on: March 22, 2016, 10:44:56 PM »
Your first set of pics of today: the back has lost itīs diagonal folds completely. so I donīt understand why you donīt feel so . the back has got more "closure" to the hole back, it follows the spine better, you actually can see the hollowing of the backseam in the profil pics. That is, what we wanted to achieve. 

The back neck: Is the black line the sewing line? If so, it is creeping up the neck. The first and most important step in fitting a garment is to position the backseam/ neckhole crosspoint exactly on the 7th vertebra, the protruding point. everything starts here measuering and fitting. So always make sure this point is positioned right when wearing! some of your pic sets are not truthworthy for fitting, because the neckhole isnīt positioned correctly.

Lowering the front parts: lowering the fronts meens to increase the back balance(wich is simply the length of the back between neckhole and chestline). so lowering the fronts and removing the so won back length by pinning away across the back sums up to a +/-0 effect.

Side body alteration: You just stretched the front sideseam. How did you manage to attach the now too long sidseam to the fronts? I think this alteration is meant to be done differentely: you should just iron the piece above the waisline in a manner that it just gets more slanted. No stretching of the seams , just shifting the armhole line parallely towards the back by keeping the waisline in itīs position. The front armhole point must not get higher.


Henry Hall

  • Research
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 659
  • A very small jeff
Re: Jacket Toile Fit Check
« Reply #52 on: March 22, 2016, 10:59:49 PM »
The back neck: Is the black line the sewing line? If so, it is creeping up the neck. The first and most important step in fitting a garment is to position the backseam/ neckhole crosspoint exactly on the 7th vertebra, the protruding point. everything starts here measuering and fitting. So always make sure this point is positioned right when wearing! some of your pic sets are not truthworthy for fitting, because the neckhole isnīt positioned correctly.

Perhaps that's because, as Terri already noted, it is too wide. Plus, it's not easy to take photos of yourself and see if a seam is out of place when it's 180 degrees in the other direction. ;)
‘Being perfectly well-dressed gives one a tranquillity that no religion can bestow.’ - Ralph Waldo Emerson.

jruley

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 536
  • Human Being
Re: Jacket Toile Fit Check
« Reply #53 on: March 22, 2016, 11:49:35 PM »
Quote
Those front part diagonal creases are much better in the last 2 sets of images it looks more balanced too.

These two have a little more pinned out of the upper part of the right sidebody.  If you look the back seam is now straight. 

Quote
I am going to talk about the first set of changes, passing the back up 1 cm.
You gain that amount right across the back, but you don't need it at the armhole, so you can either increase the shoulder padding slightly to take up the excess, or dart out some or all of the excess and transfer the dart to the shoulder, in other words it increases the amount you need to ease the back shoulder in.


So, in essence I need to adjust the shoulder slope, either by taking the ends of the seams down in the back or thicker pads?

Quote
Side body alteration: You just stretched the front sideseam. How did you manage to attach the now too long sidseam to the fronts? I think this alteration is meant to be done differentely: you should just iron the piece above the waisline in a manner that it just gets more slanted. No stretching of the seams , just shifting the armhole line parallely towards the back by keeping the waisline in itīs position. The front armhole point must not get higher.


I kept the waistline in the same position, and pinned the seam together smoothly, so yes the front part of the side body was now too high.  I figured if the alteration worked the scye could be recut.  The books talked about shifting the armhole line as you said, but said stretching was an alternative and it was quicker to use the iron than cut new side body pieces.
Quote

The back neck: Is the black line the sewing line? If so, it is creeping up the neck. The first and most important step in fitting a garment is to position the backseam/ neckhole crosspoint exactly on the 7th vertebra, the protruding point. everything starts here measuering and fitting. So always make sure this point is positioned right when wearing! some of your pic sets are not truthworthy for fitting, because the neckhole isnīt positioned correctly.

Yes, the black line of stitches is attaching the tape to the back neck.  This creeping up the neck is my big problem with moving the back up.  The collar would be too high and the upper back is starting to wrinkle.

Quote
some of your pic sets are not truthworthy for fitting, because the neckhole isnīt positioned correctly...Plus, it's not easy to take photos of yourself and see if a seam is out of place when it's 180 degrees in the other direction.

Correct.  I am using a camera on a tripod, about 15 feet away from where I stand to pose.  After hitting the self-timer button I have 10 seconds to get in position.  All I can do is try to be more careful.

tom bennett

  • Research
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 284
  • Human Being
Re: Jacket Toile Fit Check
« Reply #54 on: March 23, 2016, 12:19:12 AM »
...Correct.  I am using a camera on a tripod, about 15 feet away from where I stand to pose.  After hitting the self-timer button I have 10 seconds to get in position.  All I can do is try to be more careful.


I'm not qualified to comment on your toile jacket but I am used to photography, so just on a technical note: you're correct in using a tripod but you really need to use some kind of manual release for the shutter, if my glamorous assistant isn't available a IR release/zapper is my choice.  There is no way you will be able to get back to your mark, adjust your toile and be calm all within 10 seconds, you have to be set before releasing the shutter.  It's also goo to have a mirror or reflective surface in your eye-line so you can check your pose.

tom.

jruley

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 536
  • Human Being
Re: Jacket Toile Fit Check
« Reply #55 on: March 23, 2016, 01:26:54 AM »
I have a cable release (still used to calling it that from the film camera days) but it's only about 3 feet long.  Don't know if my camera (Nikon d5100) will accept any kind of remote release.

Maybe I can get the wife to use the cable release, that might help...

peterle

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 388
  • Experienced Professional
Re: Jacket Toile Fit Check
« Reply #56 on: March 23, 2016, 02:52:14 AM »
I didnīt want to sound harsh and didnīt want to critizise, just wanted to point out that judging the fit of the garment isnīt possible without it beeing worn right. Undoubtfully itīs hard to photograph oneself properly. The wrinkles of the upper back/neck look different in each picture set, it is hard to distinguish wether  the pattern or the wearing causes the issues.



So, in essence I need to adjust the shoulder slope, either by taking the ends of the seams down in the back or thicker pads?

No, itīs done like the back in this pic:



This increases the back balance over the shoulder blades, but not at the armholes. Thus the armholes get closer to the body.
This will make the back shoulder seam a bit longer than the front seam. This additional width will usually be eased in, not sewn as a dart.




Yes, the black line of stitches is attaching the tape to the back neck.  This creeping up the neck is my big problem with moving the back up.  The collar would be too high and the upper back is starting to wrinkle.

Will the black line be the finished sewingline for the collar? The finished sewing line(3/8" SA inwards) has to be positioned at the right place when wearing.
Increasing the back balance doesnīt move up the collar, it moves down the armhole line so donīt worry about this. The back neckpoint always stays on the same spot.








jruley

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 536
  • Human Being
Re: Jacket Toile Fit Check
« Reply #57 on: March 23, 2016, 03:53:09 AM »
I didnīt want to sound harsh and didnīt want to critizise, just wanted to point out that judging the fit of the garment isnīt possible without it beeing worn right. Undoubtfully itīs hard to photograph oneself properly. The wrinkles of the upper back/neck look different in each picture set, it is hard to distinguish wether  the pattern or the wearing causes the issues.

No, you're absolutely right; if I don't put on the jacket consistently the photos are worthless.

Quote
No, itīs done like the back in this pic:

That looks like it would increase the length of the shoulder seam, so what do you do about that?

Quote
Will the black line be the finished sewingline for the collar? The finished sewing line(3/8" SA inwards) has to be positioned at the right place when wearing.
Increasing the back balance doesnīt move up the collar, it moves down the armhole line so donīt worry about this. The back neckpoint always stays on the same spot.


Close, but not quite; the black line is roughly in the center of the 1/2" tape so it's only 1/4" from the edge.

Thanks,

Jim

jruley

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 536
  • Human Being
Re: Jacket Toile Fit Check
« Reply #58 on: March 23, 2016, 05:13:59 AM »
Today's progress:

Quote
I think you are changing way too many things too much.

I took this comment to heart, and un-did all of yesterday's changes.  I cut new side body pieces since the ironwork on the old ones was not reversible.  Here they are:



I left an inlay in case displacing the head of the sidebody backward was called for.

Taking a "bite" out of the upper part of the right sidebody had been promising yesterday, so I marked a chalk line for that as shown.
What followed was a series of small changes.  I didn't take pictures but will describe each step:
- Taking out of the top of side body made the back look more symmetrical, but not enough.  So I took  a deeper "bite".
- This really helped the lower back, but now there was a diagonal drag from the right shoulder blade curving under the arm.  The right lapel came loose and pulled away from the side of the neck.
- I tried moving the front shoulder out to bring the crease line back.  This helped the front, but not the drag in the back.
- I took a horizontal wedge out of the back, using the seam line you can see where I patched in the new upper back section.  From nothing at CB to 3/8" (half width) at the scye.  This pretty much killed the drag and enabled me to bring the shoulder seam back together without the lapel pulling away from the collar.
- Took in the front seam on the left side body, below the pocket line, to reduce the vertical fluting Terri pointed out in the front skirt.

My wife took the following pictures:









The right pocket looks higher because I have not lowered the right front on the side body yet, having lost 3/4" length due to the new back wedge.  That should make the front and back hems come level.  I'll clean that up but don't expect it to make much difference (famous last words!)

I think what the new back wedge is telling me is that my initial dropped shoulder correction was in the right direction, but not enough.

TTailor

  • Venerable Member
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 268
  • There is no formula!
    • A Tailor Made It
Re: Jacket Toile Fit Check
« Reply #59 on: March 23, 2016, 10:06:08 AM »
-
Quote
Took in the front seam on the left side body, below the pocket line, to reduce the vertical fluting Terri pointed out in the front skirt.

Ahh well that is not the place to take it out. What you want to do is pin it out in a vertical dart near the front of the hip pocket, this is later transferred on the pattern into the horizontal pocket dart, in other words the horizontal dart increases in size. It has to come out there not on the side panel seam.