Men's Trouser Fit Check

[jruley]

Please take balance measurements for the hips. the pics arn´t trustworthy enough, because you wear the trousers differently. In classical trousers the waistline seam should sit on top of your hip bones, the waistband above. measure the distances of both hip bones to the floor, and compare to be sure.

This may seem a stupid question, but how do I (or a helper) locate my hip bones?

[theresa in tucson]

Put your hands on your stomach, palms flat against the abdomen, thumbs curved around your waist to the back.  Slide the hands down until the fingers hit bone.  That's the top of the hip bone in the front.  It's a little trickier in the back but if you bend forward slightly and feel for the bony parts close to the surface in the lower back you will find the top.  You aren't corpulent so your bone structure is fairly close to the surface.

[jruley]

Thank you Theresa.

At my workout session this morning my trainer agreed that my left hip is slightly lower than my right, probably 1/4" to 3/8".  Rather than trying to measure I pinned about 3/8" out of the top of the left side at the waist seam, graduated to nothing CF and CB.  This seems to make the backs look about the same:









I had my wife pin the fly opening closed, then carefully slit the right side seam open about the depth of a pocket.  Looks like gaping may indeed be a problem:

[theresa in tucson]

J, you are taking this fitting much further than I would but that is the nice thing about sewing for oneself; you can be as picky as you want to be.  You are making decent progress.

[peterle]

Your workout trainer doesn´t sew your pants. So you better trust your measure tape for exact amounts. When you compare the different back pics, you can see the folds in the leg are caused only by the way you wear the pants( in #36 the left waist is worn high wich results in a fold aiming to the inside of the calf; in #40 it´s worn too low and causes folds aiming to the outside of the calf). Maybe you don´t need any alteration for a low hip at all. Everything else is yoyoing.
Maybe it is easier for you to measure the balance by wearing a waistband only, without attached trousers. You can measure the distance from the lower edge to the floor. Be sure the lower edge of the band is located at the upper edges of your hip bone.

[jruley]

Your workout trainer doesn´t sew your pants.

I didn't know you knew my trainer!  (j/k)

Maybe it is easier for you to measure the balance by wearing a waistband only, without attached trousers. You can measure the distance from the lower edge to the floor. Be sure the lower edge of the band is located at the upper edges of your hip bone.

OK, I put a belt on over my T-shirt (no trousers) and adjusted it to lie on top of the hip bones.  I won't make you look at a picture.

Using a four-foot yardstick, my wife measured the length from bottom of belt to floor on both sides.  The difference was 1/2" lower on the left.  This was consistent for 2 trials.

I assume this means I should lower the waistband on the left side 1/2" at the side seam, graduating to nothing at CF and CB.  Correct?

And I assume the gaping pocket area in #47 confirms I need extra width at the hip level in front on the right side.  Correct?

[peterle]

for the waist band you better lower it 1/4" at the left side and make it higher 1/4 " on the right side. thus the CF and CB keep its higth and the right is 1/2 an inch higher than the left.
( when you also measure the CF to floor you will notice the amount will most probably be exactly in between the left and right hip balance measure so changing all at only one side is overcompensating and causes new troubles).

for the side seam a bit of extra width would be nice. you can add some on the undersides too.

[jruley]

The latest progress:

First, after reading the translation of the 1938 ABC des Schneiderhandwerk "Ironwork for Long Trousers" so kindly posted by Schneiderfrei, I decided to try a more rigorous application.  I printed out the steps, tore the trousers down and followed the procedure as well as I could.   The material did not shape easily, I think it either has some synthetic content or a very hard twisted fibers.  Here is a photo showing the fronts and backs after shaping but before assembly:



Then I reassembled the trousers and made the changes suggested by peterle in post #51:

[peterle]

I think the trousers are much more balanced now. the folds aren´t one-sides anymore but symmetric.
For my taste the undersides are yet a bit too long between fork line and knee line, that´s why the fabric collapses under the seat. To verify this theory just pin a horizontal fold across the undersides about 4-6" below the fork line. the fold should take away about 1cm at the crease line and fade to 0 at the side seam and inseam.

[jruley]

Well, you seem to be right as usual!

Can this alteration be made in the cut?  Or does it mean more intense ironwork?

[peterle]

First you should try, wether the trousers get too uncomfiy with undersides that short. The restricted room for moving can be unconfortable especially when walking or climbing stairs.
I think you can take out a bit less than you pinned out. (at the side seam of the right leg a dent starts to form in the topside).

A bit pattern theory: As you can see we created a saddle surface in the undersides below the buttocks by pinning a fish formed dart. A fish formed dart is the third possibility of creating a saddle surface I did´nt mention in post #9 of the tousers ironwork thread. As we don´t want a dart across the undersides nor  an inserted wedge to achieve this form, the only possibility to achieve it is by stretching the fabric at the right areas.

Where and how much to stretch can be made visible in the paper pattern, when we know how much is to be removed in the pinned dart.

[jruley]

As we don´t want a dart across the undersides nor  an inserted wedge to achieve this form, the only possibility to achieve it is by stretching the fabric at the right areas.

I don't think this material will allow much more stretching or shrinking, especially shrinking.

As you can see in the photos, the knee lines (marked with white thread) are offset by about 3/8" as a result of the ironwork.  I could increase this offset (move the backs down relative to the fronts) and then full the fronts on to the backs above the knee, and vice versa below the knee.  Would this work?

[jruley]

I decided to go ahead and try it.
Here the left leg is back to #52 (I removed the pinned fold from the back).
On the right leg, the knee notch has been lowered another 3/8", making 3/4" total.  This seems to put more of an S shape into the trouser leg and makes the back hang a bit cleaner.  OTOH there is some bubbling of the seams above the knee.









I tried climbing stairs, and there is indeed some pressure against the front of the thighs when the knees are raised.   So while this is fine for dressy trousers, I will need to relax things a bit for more casual ones.

[peterle]

We can also try to transfer the pinned horizontal dart to the pattern to make the alteration more precise:

(make a copy of your undersides and) draw in the pinned dart (better take out a bit less than pinned) in the paper pattern. from the two center tip points of the dart mark four diagonal (45 degrees) lines, one upwards towards the outseam,  one downwards toward the outseam,one downwards towards the inseam and one upwards towards the seat seam curve.
slash the dart keeping two hingpoints at the inseam and at the outseam.
Slash the diagonals keeping hinge points at the center tips.
Pivot the dart close. the diagonals will overlap towards the seam lines.
Arrange the pattern in a way the overlapping is distributed evenly, eventually a bit more at the seat seam and inseam slash. fix the pieces.
This is your new underside pattern.

Now you have the dart transferred to the paper pattern. The overlapping lines indicate where and how much the fabric is to be stretched. That´s why they are diagonal, because in bias direction the fabric is easy to stretch no matter which fibre. the stretching is distributed in four directions to minimize the amount to be stretched in an single area. To anticipate the question: the fabric is to be stretched crosswise to the overlapping lines.

[jruley]

So let's try peterle's new alteration.

Here is a copy of the underside pattern, to a little below the knee line.  We are taking out 1/4" of length along the crease line.  The slash lines are marked, assuming I understood correctly:



Here is the pattern fixed in position with the dart taped closed.  There is about 1/8" of overlap at the end of each slash line.  Note that the crease line remains straight:



It seems that the main effect of the alteration is just to shorten the underside pattern 1/4" between the fork and knee lines.  This lost length has to be made up by stretching the seams as shown.  It's interesting that part of the stretching occurs in the fork seam!

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that the stretching is in about the same places called for in the "ABC des Schneiderhandwerk" article from 1938 previously referenced.

Now I hope peterle will tell me what I got wrong...