Men's Trouser Fit Check

[peterle]

Everything done right jruly.
The main purpose was to help understanding what ironwork is for, and that there is a connectivity between pattern lines and required ironwork. Ironwork is always an integral part of a pattern system (at least in german ones).

Yes, the main effect is a shortened underside (but without elongating the calf area). when you lay the new pattern onto the original one, you will recognize different additional effects.  This method allows you to transfer the pin fitting pricisely and cotrolled to the paper pattern. It also shows where the stretching is to be done and you can manipulate where you want the stretching to be done. for example when you manipulate all the overlap to the seat seam diagonal, the hole upper part of the pattern will tilt. After the stretching it will be returned in the right position.

[jruley]

It also shows where the stretching is to be done and you can manipulate where you want the stretching to be done. for example when you manipulate all the overlap to the seat seam diagonal, the hole upper part of the pattern will tilt. After the stretching it will be returned in the right position.

But that is not what you told me to do.  You said:

Arrange the pattern in a way the overlapping is distributed evenly, eventually a bit more at the seat seam and inseam slash.

So, is putting all the stretching into the seat seam a better choice in practice?  Or does it depend on the material?

Specifically:  What would you advise for a cotton pair, where the material will shrink very little if at all?

[peterle]

Distributing evenly is meant to fit most fabrics, because you have to stretch each single area only a little bit. Putting it all in one area demands a fabric that can be stretched easily.

As there is no shrinking involved in this process just stretching, it also can be done in cotton, that has some bias stretchability. Densly woven and plain weave cottons linnens and synthetics with hardly any bias shift could be an issue.

[jruley]

Thanks again peterle for all your advice.  So, barring unforeseen issues with the waistband or pockets, it looks like my dress trouser pattern is pretty much finished.

Now, I want to think about more casual trousers; something which as a retiree I will get a lot more use from than wool dress ones .  As you suggested in post #55, the pattern we've been working on doesn't have much room for free movement.  So what changes are appropriate?

Looking at post #29 of this thread:
http://www.cutterandtailor.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4085&hl=stride&page=2
it looks like I should consider a bigger seat angle, i.e. un-do part or all of the wedge from post #36, and accept that the undersides will get a bit messy.

But I'm wondering about another approach.  Is the longer seat seam necessary, or just more fork length?  I could cut the fork of the undersides as a separate gusset - and I could build in some shape without stretching by cutting the edges hollow.  Does this sound reasonable?

[Henry Hall]

Is that actually pulling on the right hip or is it that it has been fulled-in? I admit I have not followed all the thread.

[jruley]

Is that actually pulling on the right hip or is it that it has been fulled-in? I admit I have not followed all the thread.

I didn't rip the seam that high when I moved the backs down relative to the fronts.  So maybe it's pulling a little.

[peterle]

I´m not sure the pattern is finished yet.
The front yet seems a bit too tight. The fly is gaping. I think the trousers could profit from front darts/easing in the fronts to the waistband. For this you have to make them a tad wider at the hip to waist in the side seam (about 0,75-1cm) and ease the additional  waistline width into the waistband.

You should have ripped the seam at least up to the fork line. The shortness of the undersides has to be distributed from the fork heigth to about 3" above the knee line.

Seat seam length and seat angle are two different things, that shouldn´t be mixed up.  A more slanted seat angle is achieved by shifting the whole waistline parallely  towards the outseam and smoothing in the seam lines to the shifted end points of this line. The seat seam length keeps the same. To understand analyze how the Seat angle is determinated in the rundschau pattern and how the pattern will change when choosing a different seat angle.

Wedging changes the seat angle and the seat seam length, what is not always wanted.

[jruley]

The front yet seems a bit too tight. The fly is gaping. I think the trousers could profit from front darts/easing in the fronts to the waistband. For this you have to make them a tad wider at the hip to waist in the side seam (about 0,75-1cm) and ease the additional  waistline width into the waistband.

Unfortunately this is not an option for this pair.  I cut the fronts without inlays, and with the additional width added to the right side in #51, there is no more room for adjustments.  That's not to say I can't junk them and start over, this was very cheap fabric.

Seat seam length and seat angle are two different things, that shouldn´t be mixed up.  A more slanted seat angle is achieved by shifting the whole waistline parallely  towards the outseam and smoothing in the seam lines to the shifted end points of this line. The seat seam length keeps the same. To understand analyze how the Seat angle is determinated in the rundschau pattern and how the pattern will change when choosing a different seat angle.

You mean this illustration?

As I understand it, the point of the square rests at S6.  One arm goes through S5, and the other B5.  As S5 is raised or lowered, the seat angle becomes straighter or more crooked.  B4 is adjusted so the waist and side seam lengths (to the knee) remain the same.  Correct?

[peterle]

Yes, that seems correct.

When You take a straighter seat angle(S-S5 is more than 1,5cm), G2 and thus G3 and B4 and B5 will move to the right but the higth will stay the same. the seat seam length will stay pretty much the same as well.
Opposit when you choose a more crooked seat angle.

[jruley]

Before doing anything else, I thought it was time to make a clean pattern incorporating all changes, as well as the proposed front ease or darts.

Here is the result, with the undersides above the fronts.  This underside has been shortened between the fork and knee lines, with the areas to be stretched marked with arrows.  Differences in waist seam height are marked in red for left, green for right.  The edge of the side seam is cut for the larger right side, with a red line marking the smaller left:



I also followed the Rundschau method to increase the seat angle.  The current version is on the left.  The new one has top of the seat seam shifted 3/8", which will result in more stride room:

[jruley]

Since width cannot be added to wool ones without cutting new fronts, I decided to cut out a cotton pair.  The material is a 100% cotton marked as "wrinklease", which has a twill weave and some stretchiness.  I was able to stretch it with the iron, but am not confident it will hold the shape.

The pattern is the new one from the previous post, with the more slanted seat angle.  I tried climbing stairs and there is definitely less pressure on the thighs.  The fronts were also widened with the front dart shown in the pattern.

The horizontal seam in the upper back is piecing, which was needed because I was a little short on cloth.  I think I can put the back pockets on this line; if not maybe I'll hide most of it under pocket flaps.

I expected some messiness in the back with the slanted seat angle.  I'm not sure what happened to the front.

[jruley]

Here I made an adjustment to the left leg.  I stretched the back in the areas identified in post #59, and lowered the back an additional 1/4" on the front at the knee to account for shortening.  I think it helped a bit (compare the unaltered right leg):

[peterle]

the undersides should not be stretched only at the seam line. you should stretch it like the overlaps show most at the edges fading out to nothing towards the overlap tips.

[jruley]

Here are the trousers with the finished waistband and pockets.  Leg seams were sewn like the left leg in #71.
I have two questions for the company:

- Any further adjustments to the leg seams?

- What do you think of the hem length?  Short, long, or about right?

[jruley]

Some closeups of the fly and pockets.  Nothing fancy, since these are for casual wear I used a simple folded waistband.