Author Topic: A Close-Fitting Sloper  (Read 85876 times)

jruley

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 536
  • Human Being
Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #225 on: May 14, 2016, 02:18:17 AM »

I would love to see a version with the sleeve set in unrotated. Side seam and sleeve seam meeting, vertical line of ths sleeve meeting the shoulder seam. (I know, I know, donīt hate me; maybe it helps to call it practicing).


Here is what peterle requested:













Posaune is right, this sleeve is too tight around the biceps to be of practical use for a shirt.

Either ease must be added, or we need to return to a lower cap height which will allow more bicep room. 

I await the master's directions...
« Last Edit: May 16, 2016, 11:26:03 AM by jruley »

jruley

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 536
  • Human Being
Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #226 on: May 18, 2016, 10:14:22 AM »
With no comments posted I decided to return to the lower sleeve cap height for more bicep room.  I brought the fullness more to the front as in the last alteration:



The new sleeve was put on the left side, and the left shoulder was altered with the transverse dart from post #221.  The right side remains the same as in post #225.

The new sleeve feels much better than the last one.














peterle

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 347
  • Experienced Professional
Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #227 on: May 18, 2016, 09:46:19 PM »
sorry, havenīt seen your last post.

Yes the lower cap and wider sleeve fits better. But the center line is yet pulling to the back, the front is too wide and the back is too tight.

so we gonna change this.

Copy your new sleeve pattern. transfer all lines.
Fold the front sleeve seam line inwards, so it meets the vertical center line of the sleeve. reopen.
Fold the back sleeve seam line inwards, so it meets the vertical  center line. reopen.
These folding lines will now be slashed from hem upwards to the elbow line and from the cap downwards to the elbow line.
The little spots on the elbow line will be left unslashed. Theses are the hingepoints.
Now pivot the front portion in a way, that it overlaps the middle portion for 1" at the cap base line. At the hem a gap will form. Secure with some tape.
Now pivot the back portion in a way, that a gap of 1" forms at the cap base line. This will create an overlap at the hem. Secure with tape.

now smooth the cap line by keeping the line of the middle portion and smoothing it in to the front and to the back curves. ( this will cut off the tip at the back portion and will need a bit of filling at the front line).

This is your new sleeve pattern. Sleeve seam and side seam will not meet at the moment, but we can change this, when the sleeve fits.

jruley

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 536
  • Human Being
Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #228 on: May 18, 2016, 11:35:07 PM »
I want to make sure I understood this before cutting muslin, so here is the change laid out on paper.  Old lines are black, new lines are red.  Fold lines are dashed, you fold from the black to the red.

I am not sure how to blend the cap curve.  You said the alteration would cut off the tip of the back and need filling at the front.  It looks like the reverse to me - did I overlap the wrong way?

Also, do I follow the red lines below the elbow line?  If so, won't this skewing of the seams make the sleeve twist?

If I follow the red lines, do I need to re-mark the construction lines?  How?



peterle

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 347
  • Experienced Professional
Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #229 on: May 19, 2016, 12:34:56 AM »
itīs right how you did it.( the lower is the front, isnīt it).

when you draw the whole cap line of the back, it will form a tip with the red fold  line. a part of this tip will be cut off when the cap is redrawn.

You donīt have to redo the construction lines. Just connect the lower back curve and the center part curve with a tangential (diagonal) line.

At the front place the  fat end of the french curve downwards, cupped by the red curve  and blend the line into the  black one. The lower front curve will get a bit more curvy.

jruley

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 536
  • Human Being
Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #230 on: May 19, 2016, 11:25:51 AM »
Here is the new pattern completed so you can see how I faired the cap curve together:



This pattern is not usable "as-is".  As you can see, if you try to match the sleeve seams the ends don't line up.  If you forced the ends to match the sleeve would be twisted:



So I combined the new sleeve cap with the body of the current sleeve, below the cap line:



The resulting sleeve was cut and sewn into the right armhole.  The sleeve from post #226 remains in the left armhole:













Both sleeves have the seams aligned with the body at present.  Should I try rotating them?

peterle

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 347
  • Experienced Professional
Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #231 on: May 19, 2016, 07:11:00 PM »
Well, it was a mistake to combine the patterns.
It was meant to twist. The most important effect of this alteration was that the front seam point and back seam point change itīs relative position.

When you fold it the right way (sleeve seam lines meeting at the center line, cap end points meeting), it will not twist, only the fold lines will change.

peterle

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 347
  • Experienced Professional
Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #232 on: May 19, 2016, 07:47:59 PM »
Oh, I forgot:
You should have copied the hemlines of the pivoted pieces also. so the sleeve seam lengths would stay the same. the wobbly hem line can be straightend by just connecting the seam end points.

posaune

  • Venerable Member
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 387
  • Human Being
Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #233 on: May 19, 2016, 09:25:55 PM »
To get a better understanding for myself I have done a drawing

Is this right?
lg
posaune

peterle

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 347
  • Experienced Professional
Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #234 on: May 19, 2016, 10:03:24 PM »
Yes, exactly, thank you Posaune.
But my slashes would not be strictly vertical, they would be slanted, because I fold the sleeve like with sewn seam.

I chose the elbow line as pivot points to shift some wideness from the back of the wrist to the front.


posaune

  • Venerable Member
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 387
  • Human Being
Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #235 on: May 19, 2016, 10:57:01 PM »
Aha  "....................to shift some wideness from the back of the wrist to the front."
how cool, now I understood the action.
lg
posaune

jruley

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 536
  • Human Being
Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #236 on: May 20, 2016, 12:16:21 AM »
So:  It's just as well I didn't throw the draft away :).

I added a piece at the hem, and corrected the lengths of the seams so they agree:



Here is the resulting sleeve in the right armhole.  I am not sure where the grain line should be, so cut it parallel to the old centerline.  Likewise I do not know where the cap line, elbow line, cuff line and centerline are meant to be, so did not mark them:














With both this sleeve and the last one (post #230 ), I feel some pressure on the tip of the shoulder bone.  This does not occur with the sleeve from post #226 (still in place in left armhole).

peterle

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 347
  • Experienced Professional
Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #237 on: May 20, 2016, 01:36:17 AM »
How did you set in the sleeve? do the shoulder seam and the center line notch at the cap meet?

jruley

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 536
  • Human Being
Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #238 on: May 20, 2016, 04:45:37 AM »
How did you set in the sleeve? do the shoulder seam and the center line notch at the cap meet?

I was not sure what should be aligned, so I matched the sleeve seam to the side seam.

It seems to me that the centerline has to be re-located after the seams are skewed.  So is it in the same place at the sleeve cap?

Can you explain how the new cap line, elbow line and cuff line should be located after the alteration?  They can hardly be in the same place since the cap is tilted.

« Last Edit: May 20, 2016, 01:00:38 PM by jruley »

peterle

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 347
  • Experienced Professional
Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #239 on: May 20, 2016, 07:59:38 PM »
As I wrote, the sleeve seam and the side seam will not match after the alteration, because it shifted for about 1".

Please transfer the crossing point of the cap line and the existing center line of the paper pattern to the toile. this is the "peak notch" of the cap and has to be placed at the shoulder seam.
You can also transfer the hole existing center line to the sleeve. It makes it easier to see  the impact of the alteration and where the issues are. The center line must not be relocated. Itīs our line of reference and the rest of the sleeve getīs rearranged relatively to this line.


Please mark the shoulder seams as well. They hardly can be seen on the pics.

The horizontal lines can be reestablished by just connecting the cap end points, elbow points and seam end points. They will not be in a rigtht angle to the center line anymore.