Bespoke Cutter And Tailor

Ive been perusing the forum, but cant find a frock coat draft, does any one know where a good one is, or if there is a link to an existing one. I wont have much time if any to fit it as much as that galls my soul knowing i have a hips forward stance and I dont have much knowledge in fitting outside of shirts and trousers. I have the modern muller fundamentals book and a few of the fitting books from the previous tailor and cutter forum. Not that this matters much but its for my alice in wonderland themed wedding, I'll where to coat outside of the wedding as well, was looking for it to be roughly mid thigh length or so.

Hope every one is having a grand and wondrous experience,

Thanks to all!

I have one in a 1928 MTOC edition (the one available on Amazon) and from what I;ve seen the proportions for a frock is basically the same for drafting a body coat, you just have to have the skirt not be cutaway.

There is a few tailoring books on Archive.org that have a frock coat draft. I'm pretty sure Regal's has one.

Also just found this blogpost which may be helpful https://matsukazesewing.blogspot.com/2014/04/huntsmans-frock-coat.html

Not sure how much of this (If Any, ...), may be useful to you but this is everything I could Find referencing 'Frock Coats' via the search facility.

If something is interesting, perhaps contacting the person whose info' was of interest may prove to be prudent in case they can offer further help etc 

Cutting of a four button sack?
A good link via the Wayback and a pdf further down that may be useful 

Frock coat skirt/Pleats

What is the Side body/part for?

Mr Roosevelt's Frock Coat

The American Garment Cutter edition 3

Vielen Dank!

A Dutch coatmaking book

Diplomatic coat reproduction

William D. F. Vincent

Shoulder dart vs. yoke

V&A Fashioning Masculinities Exhibition

The challenge- drafting for people you have not measured.

Nice and important book to have

I might be able to dig up a draft. Will try to post it today

I don't own this book, but her channel is very good (there's a playlist for making a morning coat and it's very comprehensive). She clearly comes from a theatre background, so her drafts are probably more realistic for a modern figure. The book has a draft for a frock coat:

Not sure if a photo is best here, i can also attach as a pdf if the photos are not good enough.
EDIT: I think the images are quite clear. (Admin')

Quote from: TTailor on September 16, 2024, 07:05:55 AM



Not sure if a photo is best here, i can also attach as a pdf if the photos are not good enough.

Thank you Terri!

I think it's quite clear

This frock coat draft is from the "Climax System of Cutting Gentlemen's Garments" by Leggatt and Hodgkinson, circa 1920?
As in all older drafts the coat is cut quite crooked ( ie the front neck point is further from the centre front) this throws a great deal of shaping and excess fabric to the neckline which requires a significant dart above the chest line in the seam between the centre front and the lapel.
This also closes up the armhole to quite a snug form fitting shape.
Later Frock coats such as those from the 1950's have significantly less shaping comparatively speaking.
My advice is to identify your desired silhouette and a draft from that era.

A crooked cut of the old days takes a heavy iron and thick enough cloth shrinking it straighter. The bridle tape, linen, is strong, holding it from going back. The armhole may need to be stretched up. Top of shoulder needs to be stretched towards neck. The inlays are useful incase you can't control the cloth as much as the pattern would like. Different wools and weaves only give so much. It isn't just being able to make it. It is also sculpture. So the shrinking and stretching and later, tailors ham is about sculpting various curves into art to be worn. Dart included.
The back pieces includes the blade cuts. Again, inlays to help provide a "pocket" that the shouldet blade fits into. Do it in a way that doesn't make it obvious. The shoulder is lengthen and shrunk in. This also helps for shoulder blade movements.
The tails of the coat are shaped to curve around the rump. This is done by the bridle method. The bridle is a little short and is shrunk so the ripples are gone.
When pressing the small of the back there are several curves going different directions. Use a ham to set the curves.
When pressing the roll line press the inside first. Flip it over and press from the outside with a little moisture. Why? The bottom layers shrink the most. This will produce a nicer roll. The press mitt is used for the crown or cap. The crown has a ridge. The cap is round like a smooth baseball.

At this point I'm just getting over being sick, so I don't know if it's possible fore me to get trousers, a vest, shirt and a coat done by october 5th unless someone holds my hand on the coat, I'll have to pull off a miracle if I'm to achieve the targeted look, but I do love a challenge.  

Tho I have absolute faith all will be as it's supposed to so long as I'm diligent. I'll have to use material I already have as my order of cloth ended up getting lost. I have some tan corduroy for the trousers(unfortunately 11 wale) and the same corduroy in pink for the vest or a plaid tropical brown wool, but I think pinks more fitting for the hatter, then a heavyish, probably 16-18 ounce wine red/maroon wool, and some royal purple lining. So if any bodies got input, be it design, style or an easier to make jacket/coat, hopefully mid hip length, I'm all ears. My last ditch attempt is I have quite a few patchwork quilts that I'll turn into basically something between a smoking jacket/frock coat, tho it galls me, I love these quilts.

I was planning a wire frame tophat but don't see many tutorials about that on the net tho I'm sure it can be done, then I'll buy a few silk ties and patchwork them together to cover it, a bit like the lavish lamp shades of old.

Quote from: TTailor on September 18, 2024, 10:50:47 AMThis frock coat draft is from the "Climax System of Cutting Gentlemen's Garments" by Leggatt and Hodgkinson, circa 1920?
As in all older drafts the coat is cut quite crooked ( ie the front neck point is further from the centre front) this throws a great deal of shaping and excess fabric to the neckline which requires a significant dart above the chest line in the seam between the centre front and the lapel.
This also closes up the armhole to quite a snug form fitting shape.
Later Frock coats such as those from the 1950's have significantly less shaping comparatively speaking.
My advice is to identify your desired silhouette and a draft from that era.

Thank you, I was gonna ask because looking at the measurements I'm not sure if they were just halves or if there was a formula behind them.

There is also this draft

https://web.archive.org/web/20150915055209/http://www.cutterandtailor.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1061

QuoteThank you, I was gonna ask because looking at the measurements I'm not sure if they were just halves or if there was a formula behind them.

The draft is for a 36" chest. That's what this book uses as its standard. Yes the numbers given for chest waist put and hips are half of the full measurement.

I use this book as a reference generally for the proportions and general shapes  but I use my own pattern drafting system to get the period silhouette

This may Not be exactly the type of 'Style' you are looking for but just having a 'look around' a site referred to from a post elsewhere, (relating to Zoot suit patterns), I found this:

Man's Frock Coat, France, c. 1815, Silk and wool twill