Shirt Collar Guide

[Gerry]

I found this quite handy, as a reference for designing shirt collars:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ihId6GKW2U

[posaune]

I just looked at the video and looked at the 3. fitting too. I can`t say that I´m over the edge seeing the result. The fit is not so nice in my opinion : see shoulder balls (stress folds) and the right sleeve cap and armhole there. My impression is: that tailors for men can learn about doing thight garments  from the ladies.
Sorry guys
lg
posaune

[Gerry]

I agree with you with respect to fit. I use an augmentation of Michael Rohr's cutting method, as laid out in his 1948 book on drafting ladies wear. I also find drapers fascinating to watch and revelatory with respect to seam and dart placement (plus styling).

That said, the video I posted is a useful starting point for drafting different shirt collars. At least I thought so. I drape my collars, but always begin with a rough draft, leaving allowances that can be cut away/augmented as required.

[posaune]

I am sorry, Gerry. I watched first the collar video - very nicely explained. Then sidestepped on youtube and watched another one "Second bespoke shirt fitting with Wil Whiting". After reading the mails underneath and all the praises I was a bit angry.......... So my comments.
Okay, I am very sorry
lg
posaune

[Gerry]

No problem Posaune, I understand your frustration when it comes to what is considered good fit. And to reiterate what we've both said, ladieswear tends to be better in that respect.

[Steelmillal]

"Second bespoke shirt fitting with Wil Whiting"

I sold Wil a bunch of shears a while back. He studied under David Gale who then had to train another replacement for his retirement from Hilditch-Key once Wil sprinted to his own brand. Wil didn't let any of the super secrets out though.

[posaune]

Oh! you know some interesting people, Steelmill.
As I am in the moment not able to sew I looked a lot of the youtube canal from Kirby.
lg
posaune

[TTailor]

I just looked at the video and looked at the 3. fitting too. I can`t say that I´m over the edge seeing the result. The fit is not so nice in my opinion : see shoulder balls (stress folds) and the right sleeve cap and armhole there. My impression is: that tailors for men can learn about doing thight garments  from the ladies.
Sorry guys
lg

Don't be sorry Posaune, you are t the only one to think that!
posaune

[Petruchio]

Oh! you know some interesting people, Steelmill.
As I am in the moment not able to sew I looked a lot of the youtube canal from Kirby.
lg
posaune

That was my remedy for a rather persistent illness recently
I don't want to hijack this thread with different videos, but I stumbled over the Budd Shirtmaker video from Kirby. Would love to hear your opinion on the fit (btw I'm shocked that they apparently don't pre-wash their shirting, given the price they are asking for a shirt)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb1_qPqpN0o&t=711s

Re the Wil Whiting video: Though I don't think it is a bad fit at all, I think after 3 fittings, I expected a little bit more. Nevertheless I find the videos quite fascinating.

[posaune]

It is my opinion (and taste) that a shirt is a shirt - something comfortable to wear - with enough ease. Emphasis on the shoulders and suggestion of a waist and small hips. So my preference is Mr. Ball.
lg
Posaune
(Ball does a slim fit with taking out about 2.5 cm at each side seam at waist. If I would do that much with a Ladies shirt I would not cut this amount directly away at sideseam. I would manipulate the pattern and the side seam would be a bit shorter after it and not longer. The shirt would sit better. I like his forming of the sideam under the armpit.)

[Steelmillal]

Nothing like that, posaune, just sold him some shears. I was impressed by his drive to be 'king of the world' like all young, brash people, ha-ha! He had to have a Heinisch like Gale, I recall, and was really just starting out. Anyway, sorry for the aside.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvWU2z-dgfs

[Gerry]

(btw I'm shocked that they apparently don't pre-wash their shirting, given the price they are asking for a shirt)

In an attempt to get more professional results with my own shirting projects, I watched a lot of youtube vids over the holiday period showing the making of shirts in large factories and bespoke workshops. With the latter, not one of them prewashes their fabric. Their advice is generally "wash it a few times and if it doesn't fit, we'll alter the pattern and the subsequent ones will be fine".

This is one of the things that causes 'roping' within felled seams: a buckled and twisted appearance. When the seam shrinks with washing the stitching still has the 'memory' of the original seam's spacing/shape, causing stress. One of the other contributory factors is that no factory/workshop presses their shirt seams before felling them flat. They just press the hell out of everything once the garment has been completed. Such a trivial thing as a quick press before closing seams yields a significant improvement.

[Schneiderfrei]

The practices that you see being excluded by big commercial companies, for the sake of profit, were once part of the normal quality control in smaller tailor shops.  But now, how many customers would notice the difference, or have been brought to believe that the small inconsistencies are normal or acceptable or even unavoidable?

[Gerry]

The practices that you see being excluded by big commercial companies, for the sake of profit, were once part of the normal quality control in smaller tailor shops.  But now, how many customers would notice the difference, or have been brought to believe that the small inconsistencies are normal or acceptable or even unavoidable?

This is exactly the problem. We're so used to seeing: roping; shoulder seams that overshoot the shoulder; excess width in the chest and body; 'nests' within the top-stitching due to back-tacking etc ... that it's become the norm and nobody questions anything. "That's just how shirts look".

It's a shame, because the largest manufacturing plants could machine an immaculate shirt, given the extent of their computer-controlled automation. No doubt it will happen once body-scanning and computerized cutting evolves.

And they'd have to employ at least one extra person to do a bit of ironing ...

[Greger]

Isn't good shirting suppose to shrink 2% or less? Cotton thread that shrinks with the shirt is helpful. Plastic threads don't shrink.