Bespoke Cutter And Tailor

Hello all, hope you're doing well! Started drafting 2 new pairs of pants, one traditional pair of trousers and one pair of slimmer trousers I will be turning into a pair of jeans. I've adapted them from Poulin's 1950 trouser draft and applied the fixes described in Wir Aedern (CB moved out 2 cm and down 1 cm, side seam moved in 2 cm) for resolving horseshoe folds under the seat. The trousers fit fine and pass the sitting/stairs/kneeling test for comfort, however, there is still some bubbling/buckling on the rearpart. Perhaps this is a result of the toile fabric being stretched in the rear as I did sit/stand a lot to make sure they fit? If this is the case, how would I account for this distortion when I cut the pattern in my final fabric as denim stretches so much over time? Please give me your thoughts and critiques, thank you.

Trouser 1






Trouser 2 (Slimmed)

Seen from the rear, the photos towards the end of your thread look more normal than those at the beginning, which look very strange. They're like different trousers, and that makes it hard to give advice. Which set of photos more accurately reflects the fit, and why are they different? (or is it a trick of the light?).

With the earlier snaps, it's almost like the CB is going out at an angle then coming back inwards. Possibly something to do with your alteration? (which I'm not familiar with).

Quote from: Gerry on June 29, 2025, 05:25:30 AMSeen from the rear, the photos towards the end of your thread look more normal than those at the beginning, which look very strange. They're like different trousers, and that makes it hard to give advice. Which set of photos more accurately reflects the fit, and why are they different? (or is it a trick of the light?).

With the earlier snaps, it's almost like the CB is going out at an angle then coming back inwards. Possibly something to do with your alteration? (which I'm not familiar with).

Apologies, messy formatting on my part. There are indeed two pairs, both with an alteration to straighten the seat angle. However, the second set (trouser 2) has also been slimmed in the crotch and thigh with Aldrich's method.

Wir Aendern Alteration:
from https://movsd.com/BespokeCutter/index.php/topic,694.msg5925.html#msg5925


Aldrich Alteration (Solid Line is After):


F-G is 1.5cm (9/16"), I-J is 1cm (3/8"), slimming at knee lines A-B and C-D are arbitrary.

Final Patterns:

The solid line is the original draft from Poulin, the black dashed line is the Wir Aedern alteration, and the red dashed line is the Aldrich alteration.

Hope this clarifies

With trouser draft No 1, you've created something akin to a box-pleat along the CB seam at the base of the seat. Excess cloth that has nowhere to go, other than to fold-in around the CB. Looking at your sketch of the final draft, the CB line resembles a jeans cut. Without the typical scoop found on most dress-trouser drafts, you're creating excess cloth in that area. That would be my guess as to why you have the box-pleat.

I'm assuming that the crotch width was narrowed in draft 2? That plus less ease has cleaned up the problem, but it's not the way to go for the dress trousers IMO.

Quote from: Gerry on June 29, 2025, 09:42:08 AMWith trouser draft No 1, you've created something akin to a box-pleat along the CB seam at the base of the seat. Excess cloth that has nowhere to go, other than to fold-in around the CB. Looking at your sketch of the final draft, the CB line resembles a jeans cut. Without the typical scoop found on most dress-trouser drafts, you're creating excess cloth in that area. That would be my guess as to why you have the box-pleat.

I'm assuming that the crotch width was narrowed in draft 2? That plus less ease has cleaned up the problem, but it's not the way to go for the dress trousers IMO.

Thanks for your insight. I've re-sewn the toile with a deeper CB curve and it seems to have remedied the problem. At this point I suppose it's just a matter of truing the toile to the pattern and adding ease. I think I went wrong in the first alteration when adding 3/4" to the edge of the CB seam, maybe it was not tapered sharply enough. Like you mentioned, it does seem a bit flatter.

That's a lot cleaner, well done.

Something I've been guilty of with my own trousers is adding a little too much ease across the seat. It's easy to forget that the cloth is towards the bias there and will have natural give. So long as things don't feel uncomfortably tight while standing, that give will allow sufficient stretch over the seat when sitting. Don't feel that you have to make things loose/baggy at the back for comfort.

PS With your jeans cut, you could treat them more like trousers, both in cut and construction (don't feel bound to convention). I've used lighter-weight denim (the sort of stuff that gets used for denim dresses) to make conventional trousers and reinforced seams are not required.

The cut/fit is usually far better than that of jeans, especially around the seat: A more-or-less straight CB line from fork-tip to waist (as is the norm with jeans) is never a good idea. Manufacturers do that because it's easier to sew a lapped seam that way, but it creates bagginess below the seat.

The only thing I don't like about denim is that it's not colourfast, so if making things more conventionally, pressing seams etc results in blue stains all over the ironing board cover, from the steam. In that respect, cotton suiting - especially chambray, if you can find it - is a far better option. Also, with the last batch of denim I used, it was out of true. I literally spent an entire morning stretching the stuff back into shape (which required a lot of effort!). Such is the nature of cheaper cloth.

Quote from: Gerry on June 29, 2025, 05:03:49 PMThat's a lot cleaner, well done.

Something I've been guilty of with my own trousers is adding a little too much ease across the seat. It's easy to forget that the cloth is towards the bias there and will have natural give. So long as things don't feel uncomfortably tight while standing, that give will allow sufficient stretch over the seat when sitting. Don't feel that you have to make things loose/baggy at the back for comfort.

I see - the draft I'm working off of gives 2" of ease across the crotch line to begin with, hopefully that's fine for the final fabric. I've made pants in the past that look great standing but restrict movement when sitting, so I've been wary of slimming down that area until now.

Quote from: Gerry on June 29, 2025, 05:42:46 PMPS With your jeans cut, you could treat them more like trousers, both in cut and construction (don't feel bound to convention). I've used lighter-weight denim (the sort of stuff that gets used for denim dresses) to make conventional trousers and reinforced seams are not required.

The cut/fit is usually far better than that of jeans, especially around the seat: A more-or-less straight CB line from fork-tip to waist (as is the norm with jeans) is never a good idea. Manufacturers do that because it's easier to sew a lapped seam that way, but it creates bagginess below the seat.

The only thing I don't like about denim is that it's not colourfast, so if making things more conventionally, pressing seams etc results in blue stains all over the ironing board cover, from the steam. In that respect, cotton suiting - especially chambray, if you can find it - is a far better option. Also, with the last batch of denim I used, it was out of true. I literally spent an entire morning stretching the stuff back into shape (which required a lot of effort!). Such is the nature of cheaper cloth.

Thanks for the pointer - I assumed the bagginess was a property of the denim fabric stretching over time, but it makes sense that it's a pattern issue given the whole CB is cut on the bias. Making bias tape has made me realize I've underestimated how much wovens can stretch.

Quote from: napwalk on Today at 02:04:01 AM

Quote from: Gerry on June 29, 2025, 05:03:49 PMThat's a lot cleaner, well done.

Something I've been guilty of with my own trousers is adding a little too much ease across the seat. It's easy to forget that the cloth is towards the bias there and will have natural give. So long as things don't feel uncomfortably tight while standing, that give will allow sufficient stretch over the seat when sitting. Don't feel that you have to make things loose/baggy at the back for comfort.

I see - the draft I'm working off of gives 2" of ease across the crotch line to begin with, hopefully that's fine for the final fabric. I've made pants in the past that look great standing but restrict movement when sitting, so I've been wary of slimming down that area until now.

Quote from: Gerry on June 29, 2025, 05:42:46 PMPS With your jeans cut, you could treat them more like trousers, both in cut and construction (don't feel bound to convention). I've used lighter-weight denim (the sort of stuff that gets used for denim dresses) to make conventional trousers and reinforced seams are not required.

The cut/fit is usually far better than that of jeans, especially around the seat: A more-or-less straight CB line from fork-tip to waist (as is the norm with jeans) is never a good idea. Manufacturers do that because it's easier to sew a lapped seam that way, but it creates bagginess below the seat.

The only thing I don't like about denim is that it's not colourfast, so if making things more conventionally, pressing seams etc results in blue stains all over the ironing board cover, from the steam. In that respect, cotton suiting - especially chambray, if you can find it - is a far better option. Also, with the last batch of denim I used, it was out of true. I literally spent an entire morning stretching the stuff back into shape (which required a lot of effort!). Such is the nature of cheaper cloth.

Thanks for the pointer - I assumed the bagginess was a property of the denim fabric stretching over time, but it makes sense that it's a pattern issue given the whole CB is cut on the bias. Making bias tape has made me realize I've underestimated how much wovens can stretch.

Machinists in the denim industry are called "blue fingers"...

Cheers, Hendrick

Quote from: napwalk on Today at 02:04:01 AMI see - the draft I'm working off of gives 2" of ease across the crotch line to begin with, hopefully that's fine for the final fabric. I've made pants in the past that look great standing but restrict movement when sitting, so I've been wary of slimming down that area until now.

For your build, I wouldn't go any skinnier than 2" of ease across the whole seat (1" on the pattern), which will be quite fitted as things stand (though not in a bad way, hopefully).

You should have enough stretch when sitting due to the reasons we've discussed, but (if you don't do this already) it's always a good idea to reinforce the CB seam by hand after machining it, as recommended in some books of yore, because it will take a fair amount of stress.

A simple back stitch with a slightly sturdier thread produces a very strong seam. I like Gutermann 'sulky' thread, which I wax. It's a 2 ply embroidery thread, but quite strong. The 100% cotton comes in two weights: 30 (my preference) or 12 wt, which is good for heavier cloths (and sewing on buttons). Some like to use silk, because it tends to be stronger as a rule-of-thumb, but I've had no issues with cotton: at least not over the average lifespan of a pair of trousers (which is usually less than a jacket).

Quote from: Hendrick on Today at 02:27:51 AMMachinists in the denim industry are called "blue fingers"...

In my case, blue fingers, blue ironing board, blue fingerprints on surfaces ... is there anything this ******* stuff doesn't stain?!!