Bespoke Cutter And Tailor

Here we go (click on the photo to see the full view):

https://www.futuremuseum.co.uk/collections/people/lives-in-key-periods/war-decline/the-first-world-war/gentlemans-suit

Looks like an inadvertent three-roll-two. It would look better fully-buttoned, I'm sure.

Quote from: Gerry on June 08, 2025, 10:47:00 PMHere we go (click on the photo to see the full view):

https://www.futuremuseum.co.uk/collections/people/lives-in-key-periods/war-decline/the-first-world-war/gentlemans-suit

Would that be a remake? They certainly didn't save on facing material!


Cheers, Hendrick

No, it's an original:

"This suit belonged to a man from Moffat and was donated to Dumfries Museum by his granddaughter in 1989." 

As you'd expect for the period, very heavy cloth.

Ah, okay! Thick cloth indeed, apparently in a fibre gauge big enough to scare moth away. Must have been dreadful, spending a year in the trenches, losing several pounds,  and then having to go around in that...

Cheers, Hendrick

Quote from: Hendrick on June 08, 2025, 11:19:09 PMAh, okay! Thick cloth indeed, apparently in a fibre gauge big enough to scare moth away. Must have been dreadful, spending a year in the trenches, losing several pounds,  and then having to go around in that...
Cheers, Hendrick

It's only fair to judge it by its contemporaries.  The military drafted men from all walks of life and threw them together.  If he was a poor working man before the war, it might have been the best suit he'd ever had.

Working men's suits were functional, durable, and (hopefully) comfortable - not necessarily fashionable.

Quote from: jruley on June 09, 2025, 03:06:17 AMWorking men's suits were functional, durable, and (hopefully) comfortable - not necessarily fashionable.

I'd say that was fashionable for the time. It's a lounge suit, after all. The thickness of cloth is typical too. Really scratchy stuff, which is why trousers were so heavily lined. They still are in the bespoke world out of tradition; but in this age of super-this-that-and-the-other weights of cloth, which are more finely woven, it often isn't necessary.

PS, living in Scotland at a time without central heating, you'd want a suit that thick!

Quote from: Gerry on June 09, 2025, 03:34:18 AM

Quote from: jruley on June 09, 2025, 03:06:17 AMWorking men's suits were functional, durable, and (hopefully) comfortable - not necessarily fashionable.

I'd say that was fashionable for the time. It's a lounge suit, after all. The thickness of cloth is typical too. Really scratchy stuff, which is why trousers were so heavily lined. They still are in the bespoke world out of tradition; but in this age of super-this-that-and-the-other weights of cloth, which are more finely woven, it often isn't necessary.

PS, living in Scotland at a time without central heating, you'd want a suit that thick!

Frankly, most of the Biellese & co superfine wools aren't as durable and functional as we are made te believe. No coincedent that most tweeds are from Schotland and Ireland by the way... Funny that although Hudderfield mills were weaving worsteds as early as the 1850s on an industrial scale but tweeds, thornproof and such cloths remained staple for anything functional like hunting, outdoors etc...

Cheers, Hendrick

Quote from: Hendrick on June 09, 2025, 05:52:12 AMFrankly, most of the Biellese & co superfine wools aren't as durable and functional as we are made te believe. No coincedent that most tweeds are from Schotland and Ireland by the way... Funny that although Hudderfield mills were weaving worsteds as early as the 1850s on an industrial scale but tweeds, thornproof and such cloths remained staple for anything functional like hunting, outdoors etc...

I agree, a lot of superfine wools don't have the durability. However, they are nice and smooth and I have very sensitive skin. I simply can't have a lot of wool close to my body (I get terrible rashes and an itch) so I'm very grateful for the finer weaves. Though their higher density can make it difficult to do ironwork (not that I'm any great expert in that field).

The idea behind tweed for hunting attire is that it supposedly acts like natural camouflage, being multicoloured and (at least in the past) of natural hues. Whether that's true or not is another thing of course. I simply can't wear it because of its coarseness. Plus a lot of the traditional colours - browns and greens - don't suit me. The aforementioned Dunn and Co, which specialised in Tweed, was like Kryptonite to me whenever I passed its doors (naturally I never stepped inside).

Bearing in mind that this was an era of denim and tartan, you can see just how out of touch these firms had become by the mid 70s.

Going back to what I was talking about earlier in this thread, made to measure was just a generic term for tailored, as is exemplified by this advert:

https://youtu.be/96t6lODGTE0?si=VDvv6G4v5lMhpUnL

Burton had a very good reputation for quality, incidentally.

Quote from: Gerry on June 09, 2025, 08:05:32 AMBearing in mind that this was an era of denim and tartan, you can see just how out of touch these firms had become by the mid 70s.

Still @ college back then... I dressed like vagabonds. The others were mostly into Antony Price, Mugler and Montana. First pleated trousers, vintage trenchcoats and "undersized"poloshirts plus "shortsides&back" haircut not to mention some crazy shoes I'd bought in London. People thought I had escaped from an asylum.

Cheerio, Hendrick

Quote from: Gerry on June 09, 2025, 08:49:27 AMGoing back to what I was talking about earlier in this thread, made to measure was just a generic term for tailored, as is exemplified by this advert:

https://youtu.be/96t6lODGTE0?si=VDvv6G4v5lMhpUnL

Burton had a very good reputation for quality, incidentally.

That's exactly my perception! I was an intern at a tailor that also sold RTW, Italian and German high end (actually liked it) and the head cutter was genuinely nice person with a great eye (he actually passed me some private orders for ladies). There were regular visits from fabric reps from all the great mills.

I can assure you that in any conversation at that time "made to measure" was synonimous to what is now called "bespoke"...

I suppose that the term "made to measure" only started to fly when RTW brands started offering unfinished products, to be finished at the tailors' or on demand by themselves and then shipped.

Many "luxury" RTW brands, with womenwear roots, like Lanvin were licensing out their mens'ranges at that time, usually to manufacturers like Bidermann from France who offered that service. On top of that a few european shirt ranges shipped dress shirts with separate cuffs and extra buttons for customisation, monogram embroidery was standard on offer...

Cheers, Hendrick

ps I am actually having a scotch, goodnight

Goodnight! (hic).

Quote from: Hendrick on June 09, 2025, 08:55:05 AMPeople thought I had escaped from an asylum.

...and now he belongs to this Forum 

Sorry, just joking.  Enjoy your Scotch...

Quote from: Gerry on June 09, 2025, 08:49:27 AMGoing back to what I was talking about earlier in this thread, made to measure was just a generic term for tailored, as is exemplified by this advert:
https://youtu.be/96t6lODGTE0?si=VDvv6G4v5lMhpUnL

I thought "made to measure" was basically "bespoke without fittings".  Am I wrong?

I know "bespoke" is supposed to involve a personal pattern.  But - if the client is of average or neutral figuration, why wouldn't the cutter start with a standard block and make any needed adjustments?  Why "reinvent the wheel" and add the possibility of inadvertent error?

(ducks for cover)