Bespoke Cutter And Tailor

Hendrick, you pull up some interesting points. The way people think keeps changing. How many older people, corporate owners keep up with quickly ever changing young minds. Those younger people don't want to "obey" the elderly!

Quote from: Greger on May 06, 2025, 07:41:57 AMHendrick, you pull up some interesting points. The way people think keeps changing. How many older people, corporate owners keep up with quickly ever changing young minds. Those younger people don't want to "obey" the elderly!

No, they don't want to obey. I fact, they look around the world mostly in disapproval and in want of things that "cant be had" anymore. What I also wanted to emphasise is that you don't have to be a conformist when you are wearing an austere garment. Some of the most beautiful creations I've seen in shows were deafeningly "silent" but meticulously executed. I guess turning one's back at percieved style or fashion or even the system as a whole is more of a statement than walking the walk!


Cheers, Hendrick

Quote from: Greger on May 06, 2025, 07:24:50 AMAs a boy listening to men,  my parents generation, being told to go home and change into a suit of style out of the fashion suit or they are fired. Later they were told that even after hours they would be fired wearing any fashion at all. The company reputation was at stake. People climbing the corporate ladder paid attention. There are still companies in America that have some rules for clothes.

My experience was a bit different.  From 1980 up to retirement in 2015, I worked first as a draftsman in the engineering department of an aerospace company, then as a grad student researcher in a laboratory, then as a civilian employee on a military base.  The dress code barely changed in 35 years.  Most men wore a dress shirt and trousers to the office.  Shirt could be long or short sleeve depending on the season or your preference.  Ties were not strictly required but most salaried employees wore them.  A few guys hated them and kept a clip on tie in a drawer in case they had a meeting or presentation.  Working level engineers rarely wore suits unless they had an interview, an important meeting, were bucking for promotion or were from New York (there were a few fashion conscious ones).  Some wore odd jackets on colder days, others preferred casual jackets or coats.  Only senior managers routinely wore suits every day.  I did a fair bit of travelling to other companies in different states, and I didn't see much variation in standards of dress.

Dress loosened up even further after Sept 11, 2001 when our military counterparts began wearing utility uniforms to the office instead of "blues".  Blue jeans were discouraged but casual shirts and pants were fully acceptable, and ties and shiny shoes pretty much disappeared.  Some of the younger guys were starting to smarten up a bit about the time I retired, but most of my generation were quite happy to be informal.

I can't recall ever hearing about someone being sent home for inappropriate dress, but then engineers aren't particularly notable for being stylish  .  I'm sure there are other professions where dress is more important. 

Jim, watched a program on TV about movie stars and famous TV personals. The older generation. To keep their high pay they had to wear nice clothes. All the pictures show them with nice clothes. The movie industry demanded high standard clothes for the movie industry reputation as a whole. They were examples of fineness. A good image. They gave up the "lower" clothes for money.
I remember men dressed up for going to town. Suit and tie. Some of these men would never go into a restaurant without it. A lot of these people didn't wear these kinds of clothes to work. It was expected men wore suit and tie to church and downtown. Of course this has all faded away. You would be lucky to see a man in a suit and tie nowadays walking around downtown. Will uniformity ever come back? And what will it be?
As a boy in stores I'd see rows and rows of suits, sports coats, blazers, vest, trousers, ties, shirts for boys of all ages. Other than shirts none of these clothes have been Mass-produced for the last several decades. Someone said recently there is one company. Otherwise the parent is paying a tailor.

Quote from: Greger on May 06, 2025, 12:34:54 PMOf course this has all faded away. You would be lucky to see a man in a suit and tie nowadays walking around downtown. Will uniformity ever come back? And what will it be?

Yep.

Of the seven (known) physical quantities, time is probably the most relevant to human life and it is irreversable until proven otherwise.
Fashion is part of human attitude for as long as we remember. To understand it, you must know that it is strongly driven by the vices aptly described by the likes of Shakespeare and Moliere but also Sigmund Freud (to name just a few), such as vanity and jealousy (to again, name just a few). It comes to be when an individual sets itself apart with originality from the herd instead of conforming to the attitudes and habits of the masses, soon to be followed by them, thereby effectively starting the end of a trend. And as such it will cause the original personality to distance himself again. No matter how "accepted" a trend is, it will die eventually; there are nightclubs in europe where you are not allowed in when wearing "white shoes", meaning trainers of course.
When we talk about style, we usually mean references to known manners and objects that somehow seem to give a wearer authority. But again, it almost always references to the known. In fact, this is what has kept Saville Row alive, not to mention giving Ralph Lauren the opportunity to building a 5 Bn. dollar operation...
Suits will always be there; now that "everybody" holds master degrees and competion in the corporate world is much more agressive than say between plumbers and builders, authorative dressing is in demand again. It will never be the same, but te underlying need is there. A few years ago you would see men, here in europe, in what I call "boys'suits". Jackets only half covering there bums, trousers too small and three fingers short etc. Compare that to our dads, to whom it was a capital sin to show a bit of leg when they crossed their legs...  The "boy suit" seems over now, but all of a sudden the 6 pleat 80's style wide and creaseless style trousers are there again (in France called pantalon de coiffeur, "haidressers' trousers"...). All this goes to say that there will always be fashion influence, also in formal dressing. But there also be demand for clothing that gives a person authority.

Ask yourself; would I buy a Maserati car from a guy on thongs, wearing shorts and a baseball cap and a dragon tattoo on his legs?

Cheerio, Hendrick

Quote from: Hendrick on May 06, 2025, 05:02:00 PMAsk yourself; would I buy a Maserati car from a guy on thongs, wearing shorts and a baseball cap and a dragon tattoo on his legs?

Well, my last two new cars were a Chevrolet and a Honda  .  I honestly can't remember what the salesman was wearing, I was more interested in the vehicle's features and the financial details.

I agree there will always be a "felt need" for "better" clothing, but will it be the classic suit?  Although styles change, the basic concept of a man's suit goes back to at least the 17th century.  The shirt covers the upper body, and trousers as a lower garment work equally well for walking, riding, and sitting down.  The waistcoat and jacket are additional layers which provide warmth and protection from the weather.  The "layer principle" has always applied; you can find genre paintings of farmers working in their shirts from the early 19th century, although this wasn't considered "polite" dress.

Maybe Europe is different, but since WWII life in the US goes on inside a climate controlled bubble.  Most homes and public buildings have been centrally heated and air conditioned since the 1970's.  Most cars are heated and air conditioned too, and we drive everywhere.  We are only exposed to the weather for a few seconds between the parking lot and the store or office entrance.  So the outer layers of a suit no longer have a functional purpose; they're just decorative.  "Vests" (as we call them) have practically disappeared, jackets have gotten lighter and lighter in weight.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the classic suit take over the role of the tuxedo or "dinner suit", which has already practically disappeared (except for entertainers). Since ties are becoming less popular the next logical step would be for the jacket to lose its lapels; this happened in the early 19th century before "cravats" became popular.  Since we spend more time seated in the office work environment it would also be logical for the jacket to lose its skirt and side pockets.  So if the jacket survives as anything but formalwear I would not be surprised to see it morph into something like the WWII British "battledress" or Eisenhower jacket.  This is a far more practical form than the traditional one and can be made either casual or nice looking.