Bespoke Cutter And Tailor

PS, because your crotch is dropped, you may find little difference in dart position having followed the method I outlined. The crotch line really needs sorting out first.

Trouser makers get away with all sorts when it comes to crotch position. A voluminous cut disguises many evils. If they made narrow-leg trousers more often, they'd realise that the crotch line is the equivalent of a high arm syce with coat makers.

I also think the crotch is to deep. Pull the pants Up till they are in the right position. You need a waistband for this.

I see different problems:
I think the seat angle of the underside is a bit to slanted.
And I think all folds of the pants point to the same area, the upper thigh. This tells me that the pattern does not provide enough room in this area and that you have to create some volume there. This area needs some width and some additional length.
You can add width by slashing and spreading the topsides.
To create length in this area I would recommend to raise the knee marks of the UNDERSIDE about 1 to 1,5cm. When resewing you have to ease in the fronts in the thighs area and the undersides in the calf area.
This should also reduce the folds of the undersides.
Probably a forward hip posture?  For the Pics it would be better to let the arms hang and just raise the underarms.

Interesting - just to confirm, when you say topside you mean front part and underside is back part, right?

It wouldn't occur to me to align the marks like that to force easing in those parts but it makes sense, and that is similar to what Carlin seems to recommend for dealing with flat seat/bunching below seat

Yes,
Front = top side
Back = underside
It seems these are the usual English terms.
Native speakers, please confirm!

Quote from: peterle on January 06, 2025, 03:06:07 AMYes,
Front = top side
Back = underside
It seems these are the usual English terms.
Native speakers, please confirm!

Correct, amongst British tailors the terms topside and underside are the norm (though front and back are commonly used during fittings).

Tweaked the pattern to try and fix the issues, I think this next one is an improvement. Reviewing in the mirror myself it looks better, I'm setting up the phone to take these photos myself this time so they're not as good. Here's what I did:

-Tapered below the knee a bit
-Raised the crotch 1cm; not sure if this is the way you do it, but I just folded the pattern above the crotch (perpendicular to crease line) to reduce 1cm, then between the crotch and the knee made a cut across the pattern perpendicular to the crease line and inserted 1cm. Did this same way to front and back pieces.
-lengthened front fork about 1cm
-Let out center back seam 1.25cm, tapering to original line when it begins the curve
-Took in side seam of back part 1.25cm, tapering to original line 10cm down
-Raised knee notch of back part 1cm, eased pieces together as peterle had mentioned
-moved darts as Gerry had mentioned

There was still some tightness around the thighs so I gradually let out the side seams beginning around the hip line and merging with the original line by the knee line; at its widest point I'm letting out the seam 1cm.

So, do I say this is close enough to switch over to the actual material? If so, I may draw a new, clean pattern and this time correctly move the crotch up, and then proceed to a baste fitting with a waistband. I'll post photos in the next message.

I'll post photos in the next message

Well, it's a lot better, isn't it. Still a bit of room for improvement, though; and I'm sure peterle will have some good advice, so hold off until you hear from him.

Personally, I'd still like to see a waistband on the trousers before signing-off on them. Waistbands have a tendency to sit where they want to sit, which is not necessarily where we anticipated. Consequently material can get pulled up or pushed down unexpectedly. You really should fit one to see if further adjustments will be necessary once the actual band is fitted. It will avoid nasty surprises. Plus the hang will be better, so it will be easier to determine what further alterations, if any, are required

With the secondary darts, try pointing their apexes towards the mid point at the crotch line, as we did with the main dart. Maybe putting them parallel wasn't the way to go (at least not with the original spacing): they still look as if they're going off to the sides. Also, run the stitching right to the edge of the cloth at the apex to avoid the dimples you're getting.

When I do trouser darts, I always start from the apex. With the needle down and foot up, I butt the fold of the dart against the needle about a quarter of an inch down (mark this point in advance). I then angle the piece anticlockwise by about one degree and bring the foot down. Reducing the stich length I then hand crank that quarter. The first stitch should just catch the edge of the cloth. From then on the work can be straightened and you continue to crank up to the apex in a straight line, right on the edge of the folded cloth. Once at the apex, increase the stitch length to where it was and machine as normal. It prevents dimples and by reducing the stitching just before the apex we add strength there.

Difficult to tell if the crotch still needs raising a little. Did you do a comparison of measurements? (inside leg of trouser vs actual inside leg).

I also think it is an improvement.
But I m also concerned about the waistband. Like Gerry says it is absolutely necessary to make the fitting with a waistband. Otherwise you will never know how the pants will hang and wether the crotch line is worn in the drawn position.
Bear in mind:you started to measure your side length at the upper edge of the hip bone, and you started to draw the pattern at this point. So You have to make sure this point(Side seam/waistline) is also at the upper edge of your hip bone when you wear it. Only then you can judge wether the crotch line is in the right height (and the darts have the right length).

The shifted knee marks seem to work.the folds got much less. But make sure when sewing, that front and back are joint flush about 6-7cm above and below the knee marks. The easig happens above and below this flush area. Ironwork will help a lot, even in cottons. Watch the vid about ironwork that was posted recently.

There's an easy check to do on oneself to ascertain whether the crotch is at the right height. Place your fingers under your crotch while wearing the trousers, right at the junction of all the forks. Simply lift the cloth until it touches your body. If the legs of the trousers don't rise significantly, then you're OK. Otherwise, the crotch is too low. This assumes that a waistband is in place, however.

PS You don't need to sew on a fully-canvased band or anything. A bit of calico on the fold will do. Just make sure that you at least overlap the fronts (no need to finish/bag the ends) so that you can pin the waistband closed.

Gotcha - I can whip up a quick waistband to try for a fitting. Thank you both for the very helpful advice.

Quote from: Gerry on January 06, 2025, 10:19:16 AMWith the secondary darts, try pointing their apexes towards the mid point at the crotch line, as we did with the main dart. Maybe putting them parallel wasn't the way to go (at least not with the original spacing): they still look as if they're going off to the sides. Also, run the stitching right to the edge of the cloth at the apex to avoid the dimples you're getting.

When I do trouser darts, I always start from the apex. With the needle down and foot up, I butt the fold of the dart against the needle about a quarter of an inch down (mark this point in advance). I then angle the piece anticlockwise by about one degree and bring the foot down. Reducing the stich length I then hand crank that quarter. The first stitch should just catch the edge of the cloth. From then on the work can be straightened and you continue to crank up to the apex in a straight line, right on the edge of the folded cloth. Once at the apex, increase the stitch length to where it was and machine as normal. It prevents dimples and by reducing the stitching just before the apex we add strength there.

For the darts, I did that a little hastily on the muslin. My usual routine on the actual material is to carefully sew them together by hand first using basting thread so I can be sure they're lining up the way I want, and I have a nice line of thread to follow when I'm machine sewing. After pressing that I go from the top of the trouser down to the apex but instead of doing a lock stitch I leave the threads loose at the end then tie off in a small knot so it's less bulky. Then I place it on a rounded ham and try to press/steam it into a nice shape with no dimple. Hadn't thought about reducing the stitch length down near the apex though, so I'll try that on the next one.

Quote from: peterle on January 06, 2025, 08:20:32 PMBut make sure when sewing, that front and back are joint flush about 6-7cm above and below the knee marks. The easig happens above and below this flush area. Ironwork will help a lot, even in cottons. Watch the vid about ironwork that was posted recently.

Good to know. I had spread the excess way further out; I made sure it lined up at the hem and at the hip, then lots of pins to spread it out evenly. Only 6-7cm seems tight, the trouser material is a fairly tightly woven cotton, I worry if my home iron will manage it. Is there a reason to keep it concentrated right around the knee instead of spread out further? Thinking through it now, I could see wanting to concentrate it on the back part right below the knee so you get that extra material right where the calf begins, but for the front part above the knee wouldn't I want it concentrated a little further up, maybe starting at the crotch line and going up 7cm? This sort of manipulation seems like a more advanced maneuver, I want to make sure I'm understanding it.

I will also do the other checks you both mentioned regarding outseam/inseam after the crotch movement, and yes I can confirm there is a little space between the crotch line and myself, but not too much.

Quote from: EvanTA on January 07, 2025, 02:28:43 AMI can confirm there is a little space between the crotch line and myself, but not too much.

So long as it's not restricting movement (and it shouldn't with this type of cut - but do test by taking some long strides), then a slightly dropped crotch shouldn't be a problem. After all, many Savile Row tailors get away with it! 

That said, I find that the inside leg has a slightly cleaner drape if the crotch is as high up as possible. I also need it in my case because I favour a narrow leg. Not skinning little things, I'm more into the parallel leg look of the late 50s (revived in the late 60s and mid 80s, at least here in the UK). Even though that cut has more ease than skinny drain pipes, unless the crotch is really high, leg moment is restricted and the waist gets pulled down when walking.

Yes, you got it right.
When you look at a Profile Pic you will see the profile of your leg is slightly S shaped, convex at  the front thigh and the back calve and concave under the butt.
You want tight pants to look the same. So the easing happens at the convex areas. The knee line is the changing point of the S curve. That's why the parts are sewn flush in this area.
The convex calves make the lower fronts swinging forward, thus the hem gets slanted, and the back hem moves to the heel.

You can think of the easing as little darts that make the seam lines shorter than the center line of the pattern pieces.

Another question to the nativ speakers: when you say easing in do you also mean the longer part is to be eased in? In German we say" to keep short" and mean the longer part is to be kept short to match the shorter part.