Bespoke Cutter And Tailor

Hi All - hope the holidays were good. I am still plugging away at this, I recently completed a fully-lined casual jacket (sort of a Herrington style) and am pretty happy with some shirts I've completed, although I've only used heavier (7-10oz) denims which are pretty easy to work with. I am happy with the construction elements of trousers I make, but still not happy with their fit. I have been using the Aldrich patterns and making muslins, but then when I transfer over to the real material it's like I'm using an entirely different pattern. I just purchased the Mueller und Sohn trouser pattern set and I'll try that, but I am also interested in doing baste fittings. I was reading something from Richard Anderson and he mentioned that, what are your thoughts?

I think for the first few patterns from the Muller und Sohn book I'll make muslins just to make sure I'm in the ballpark, and the next step would be to cut out from the actual material leaving in a substantial SA all around, especially at the seat seam, and just baste the legs together and attach a simple waistband, either by hand or if I can get my machine to a tension that's easy to rip out when I'm, and adjust from there. And THEN, after fine-tuning I would rip apart, transfer adjustments to the pattern, and then start the construction in earnest - pockets, fly, etc.

Anyone take this approach? I even tried purchasing some heavier weight cheap twill fabric to mimic the real material, but still it might as well have been a different pattern comparing the toile to the real thing.

Evan,

Doing a baste fitting is definitely useful for being able to make changes to a garment. I would suggest basting by hand, taking 2 bites (stitches) on top of each other to secure the beginning and ends of the seam, and taking a stitch every inch or so along the seam line.

If you want to baste by machine don't mess with your tension, just increase your stitch length to its max. Longer stitches are easier to pull out but your machine will try to bunch up your fabric at the longest stitch length. You can counter this by 'taut-sewing' basically holding the seam behind the needle with one hand, and in front of the needle with another, and gently stretching to keep the fabric taught as it is fed through the machine. You shouldn't push or pull the fabric through the machine but hold it like a flat plane and let the feed dogs do the work, it takes some practice to get the hang of it. If machine basting at max SL, you should loosen the top tension so a stitch is still formed but there's enough slack for the thread to pass through the needle to the next stitch without pulling on the stitch it just formed (which makes it bunch up).

Basting by hand gives you the most control and in the long run trying to baste by machine might not really save you any time.


"And THEN, after fine-tuning I would rip apart, transfer adjustments to the pattern, and then start the construction in earnest - pockets, fly, etc."
This is a common technique for fittings in Theatre, on a muslin we can use a sharpie to mark alterations necessary for the final garment and transfer that information to the paper pattern.


What exactly do you mean the muslin acts like a different pattern compared to the fashion fabric? It's definitely best practice to use a similar weight/drape fabric as your fashion fabric to get a sense how it'll behave, but assuming you're accurate in cutting both out from the patterns they should behave similarly. Some fabrics are more slippery than others which can be frustrating to handle when seaming them together.

Ben

Machine basting with a bobbin leave one tension loose enough that so one thread is laying on top the cloth. That thread is very easy to pull out.
Hand basting develops hand sewing skills.

Thank you both for your responses.

To answer your question, Ben, I seem to get strange issues around my hips and the side seam. I'll make a muslin and it'll appear to hang nicely at my hips and be smooth across my backside, but then when I switch to the real material it will be baggy at the sides and back, then when I correct that I get gaping at the front pockets because I've tightened at the side seam so I just end up finding a balance of minimizing the pocket gape/flare and a clean side seam. Part of this may just be an issue I inadvertently introduced to my pants pattern, which is one I've iterated on now a few times. I say that because I just finished up a pair of pants for my brother, brand new pattern for him, and they didn't produce this hip issue.

So, I think I've got two problems: a bad pattern, and annoyance at having to make minor fit adjustments after many constructions steps are done. The first I'll solve by starting a new pattern this time using the M&S system, and the second I'll solve by doing a baste fitting prior to construction. The additional hand stitching practice will be a bonus.

I think there are two reasons why the muslin fits differently than the fashion fabric.
First a muslin usually has no pockets. No pockets, no gaping. The pockets reveal fitting issues.
Second when You use a shifty material for the muslin with a lot of bias give it will lay smoother on the body. A more rigid fabric will reveal fitting issues much more.

My experience is that a front dart can help with gaping pockets (strong thighs)

I think you may be right on the front dart. Prior to the last two pants which produced the gaping pockets I made some low-stakes practice pants from a pleated pants pattern - those pants, cheap though they were, didn't have the gaping pocket issue. Feeling confident, I made some pants from the pattern draft BEFORE I'd added the pleats and and lo and behold I get the gaping pocket.

I'd like to avoid front darts if at all possible, though. I'll see how this M&S pattern goes, I may post some progress shots of that to get some pointers.

Have you tried the Mansie draft (here):

https://movsd.com/BespokeCutter/index.php/topic,56.msg215.html#msg215

It worked well for me, though it took some fitting (here):

https://movsd.com/BespokeCutter/index.php/topic,389.0.html

I have not tried that one, looks like a roomy fit. I've finished drawing the M&S pattern, still need to double check some of the measurements but so far it looks nice and it may be a bit snug which could be good. I have straighter hips than I realized and looking at prior patterns there's more curve near the hips than maybe there should have been. I thought of myself as having strong hips/thighs, but I think that weight is distributed less on the sides than on the front and back, so maybe I was trying to address that incorrectly.

Front dart eventually?

Ok here's the first muslin. Not bad overall, maybe I need to add additional ease around the thighs though (measuring my body relative to the pattern it appears there's 1-3" ease, but still that looks snug). And, I'll taper below the knee a bit, it's a little wide at the bottom I think. It is loose around the waist, which I know some of that will go away with pockets and waistband.

Can I avoid front darts by making a waistband smaller than the pants and easing on the pants to the waistband?

I'll post pattern pics in a minute.

Here's front and rear pattern

It looks to me like I need to add to the back part around the thighs, that would reduce the strain at the front, plus taper the legs below the knee just a tad.

FWIW the material I plan to use is a 12oz moleskin, on the stiff side. I imagine it being a heavy winter pant for walks, so I want it on the trim side rather than a loose drapey fit.

The leg crease are very nice. However, you have a number of problems.

There's tension across the front in the crotch area. Note all those lines radiating from the crotch? The front fork of your pattern looks a little short so releasing it might totally solve this; but in profile the seam gets pulled forward as it covers the thighs, suggesting general tightness across the fronts. So you might also need to increase width here after making the fork adjustment.

The darts are a little too far to the sides. They should point to the fullest part of the seat. If they don't, then you create space at the bottom of the darts where there's nothing to fill it, and things look messy. A trick I learned from a 50s draft: at the crotch line of the back, mark the centre position between the fork tip and side seam. Mark the centre position of the waist and draw a straight line between these two points. Now mark in your main dart around said line. It will be at a diagonal, but don't worry: when the trousers are worn it straightens out significantly. Anyway, the dart invariably ends up pointing to the fullest part of the seat when using this trick. Give it a go?

Could just be an illusion due to folds of cloth, but the crotch looks dropped, especially at the back. Does it feel like you're waddling when you walk? Re-check your inside leg measurement.

You're better off fitting with a provisional waistband too. You've possibly got too much rise at the back. You're not noticing this because there's no band in place, so you're compensating and making things high to ensure coverage at the back.

Last year I watched some videos about the "top down centre out" method for fitting trousers. It's mostly aimed at people trying to get a decent fit from sewing patterns, especially if they're working alone. Many fitting issues would easily be circumvented with a bespoke draft, frankly, but it made me very aware just how significant the waistband actually is. Just as coat makers say everything hangs from the shoulders - and all provisional balance adjustments are made with that in mind - everything hangs from the waistband in a pair of trousers, as the videos demonstrate. Really, it's the first thing we should be fitting; and many, complicated adjustments that we make in the bespoke world could be totally avoided if we stopped treating the waistband as an afterthought.

Quote from: Gerry on January 05, 2025, 10:35:40 PMThere's tension across the front in the crotch area. Note all those lines radiating from the crotch? The front fork of your pattern looks a little short so releasing it might totally solve this; but in profile the seam gets pulled forward as it covers the thighs, suggesting general tightness across the fronts. So you might also need to increase width here after making the fork adjustment.

Agreed - so I'll lengthen the front fork and let out the seam a bit on the front side seam as well

Quote from: Gerry on January 05, 2025, 10:35:40 PMThe darts are a little too far to the sides. They should point to the fullest part of the seat. If they don't, then you create space at the bottom of the darts where there's nothing to fill it, and things look messy.

I did think that was odd, I just followed the pattern instructions, but I'll go your method.

Quote from: Gerry on January 05, 2025, 10:35:40 PMCould just be an illusion due to folds of cloth, but the crotch looks dropped, especially at the back. Does it feel like you're waddling when you walk? Re-check your inside leg measurement.

No, you're right, it is oddly low. How do I fix that? Do I fold up the pattern horizontally midway between the crotch and the waist then blend those seam lines, and then between the knee and crotch cut out and insert a matching length?

And your point about the waistband seems correct, I'll try to whip up a quick waistband for this to attach.

Thank you for the pointers, I'll try to work on this today.

Quote from: EvanTA on January 05, 2025, 11:42:54 PM

Quote from: Gerry on January 05, 2025, 10:35:40 PMThere's tension across the front in the crotch area. Note all those lines radiating from the crotch? The front fork of your pattern looks a little short so releasing it might totally solve this; but in profile the seam gets pulled forward as it covers the thighs, suggesting general tightness across the fronts. So you might also need to increase width here after making the fork adjustment.

Agreed - so I'll lengthen the front fork and let out the seam a bit on the front side seam as well

Do one adjustment at a time, starting with the front fork. There's no point letting out the side seam if it's unnecessary.

Quote

Quote from: Gerry on January 05, 2025, 10:35:40 PMThe darts are a little too far to the sides. They should point to the fullest part of the seat. If they don't, then you create space at the bottom of the darts where there's nothing to fill it, and things look messy.

I did think that was odd, I just followed the pattern instructions, but I'll go your method.

Try the same spacing that you've used for your secondary dart, but make sure that it runs parallel with the main one. If there's still a problem then you might need to position it closer.

Using the method that I outlined, the darts can end up at a very slight angle, though they usually look fine; but if you're not happy it's a trivial adjustment to make them straighter looking. Either way, I find it a better starting point than simply dropping darts perpendicular to the waist.

Quote

Quote from: Gerry on January 05, 2025, 10:35:40 PMCould just be an illusion due to folds of cloth, but the crotch looks dropped, especially at the back. Does it feel like you're waddling when you walk? Re-check your inside leg measurement.

No, you're right, it is oddly low. How do I fix that? Do I fold up the pattern horizontally midway between the crotch and the waist then blend those seam lines, and then between the knee and crotch cut out and insert a matching length?

Retake your inside leg measurement and ensure that the crotch line is at that position, relative to the floor. Personally, I'd redraft things. It looks too low to sort out with a simple fix, but I'm not one for slashing patterns so others will be better placed to give advice. Myself, I don't cut out main drafts until the fitting process is over. Instead I trace the pattern onto lengths of grease-proof paper sellotaped together, and make the toile from that. I find it easier to make pattern amendments, and to keep track of them, by keeping the draft intact until I'm ready to commit to cloth. A little eccentric, but I do what I find easiest for me.