Bespoke Cutter And Tailor

Hi everyone!

I've been observing different pattern-making techniques, and a question came up. As an example, I'll bring up the systems of Rory Duffy and Sven Jungclaus. My question is actually about the grainline.

In Jungclaus' system, the grainline in the front of the jacket follows the dart, which he constructs perpendicular to the hemline of the jacket. However, this line is not perpendicular to the chest line, which Reza mentions in his video should always be parallel to the ground. On a checked fabric, this would likely be quite noticeable, right?

What happens if I modify Jungclaus' system by making the grainline perpendicular to the chest line, and thus aligning the dart with it as well? (I've started testing Jungclaus' system, and indeed, the dart does come out quite slanted.)





Additional question: Why does Jungclaus (and, for example, Rundschau) tilt the side of the back panel (left side of the hemline) and the other panels in the opposite direction? What does this affect? I haven't seen this approach with Italian tailors or in Rory's system either.

I'm guessing that the second draft compensates for the distortions caused by suppression and the darts. When the jacket is made up, everything will be on grain.

Perhaps it's more fitted, which would result in more distortions. The inclusion of a side pannel would suggest this.

Best to wait for a coat maker to answer, though (I merely dabble).

BTW is that slight diagonal at the chest just a construction line for the pocket?(is it the actual chest line?).

Hi Gerry
that is the construtionline for the breast pocket.
the draft of Sven Jungclaus is near the Rundschau construction. Both give a nice "skirt" and a "hugging" back. It is easy to alter for different figure types.
 The first draft looks like an english draft to me. I think the slanted dart at the side can act maybe a bit difficult - but I do not know.
But I am not a coat maker and sew mainly for ladies (or my husband ).
I own some books of Jungclaus, because he shows detailed in pictures how to sew men's clothes.
lg
posaune

Thank you posaune, that's what I thought. In which case, the dart is actually perpendicular to the chest line.

Any slight angling of the back is to compensate for the back suppression? And the angling at the front to compensate for shortness in the front that might otherwise occur. Personally, I just allow inlay at the hem and sort it out in the fitting. 

Thank you for the feedback.

I also checked again in the Jungclaus book; I am attaching the image. Additionally, in one of my Rundschau drafts, it also mentions that a perpendicular should be drawn to the hemline.

The following note was added to it:
,,Dart



on waistline from chest-center-line: mark to the left 2 cm
at hem-line square up through previous point
halve this dart-line between chest-line and hem as shown
on dart-line from chest-line: mark down 4 cm"

The slanted back panel is the result of an incorporated wedge at the shoulder Blade level and gives enough length over the shoulder blades.
In older Rundschau drafts the back seam line at hip Level is moved just 2cm(instead of 4cm) from the vertical center line and the finished Back pattern was slashed an pivoted at the blade level.  They incorporated that step to the drafting process.

Quote from: posaune on November 05, 2024, 11:56:52 PMHi Gerry
that is the construtionline for the breast pocket.
the draft of Sven Jungclaus is near the Rundschau construction. Both give a nice "skirt" and a "hugging" back. It is easy to alter for different figure types.
 The first draft looks like an english draft to me. I think the slanted dart at the side can act maybe a bit difficult - but I do not know.
But I am not a coat maker and sew mainly for ladies (or my husband ).
I own some books of Jungclaus, because he shows detailed in pictures how to sew men's clothes.
lg
posaune

There is a technique to prevent slanted darts and seams from going crooked, even on light materials. Here the seam value of the dart is covered inside with a bias cut organdi...

Cheers, Hendrick

Quote from: Hendrick on November 07, 2024, 10:19:23 AMThere is a technique to prevent slanted darts and seams from going crooked, even on light materials. Here the seam value of the dart is covered inside with a bias cut organdi...

Cheers, Hendrick

I'm guessing that the organdi is pressed to one side and the dart to the other, so that they mirror each other; and that the dart isn't cut open in any way?

I've been thinking of doing this myself following a toile that I made recently. The chest darts have a mere one quarter inch intake. There's no way I could cut them open so the best I can do is what you've described. Unless you meant something else of course, in which case please enlighten me! 

Mmm, the darts or seams are effectively opened; they can be because the pivot is much greater in a women's than a man's jacket. In couture, this is often done, even when a jacket has important curving, but also when fabric tends to unravel (like a Chanel). The seam or dart value is then hand overcast together with the strip of organdi. The last two or three cms (the ends)of the dart are pressed with an awl inserted. But it never hurts to try, the judgement of the material is probably the most important factor anyway. A french friend once opened a Chanel jacket (his wife's!) to try and trace the form of it. Picking it apart the loosely woven material quickly started unraveling before his eyes, immagine his panic!

Cheers, Hendrick

The dart on her coat seems to go to high. Does it got to the edge? Is there a gap (spread) which is pulled together for more shaping when seamed?

...it's actually a seam. It it incorporates the neck dart (to keep the top of the forepart above breast point closer to the body) as well as the chest dart. I posted it to illustrate that symmetrical darts are easier but not obligatory.

Cheers, Hendrick

It's nicely done, Hendrick.

About the warp. When it is vertical where needed it is strong and the cloth hangs better. Off bias cloth can be fitted but after awhile the garment starts hanging crooked. There is an overcoat that the back is set crooked. Don't remember why. Someone with a large seat maybe bias would be better. And maybe better for the shoulder blades.

Quote from: Greger on November 11, 2024, 02:23:42 PMIt's nicely done, Hendrick.

About the warp. When it is vertical where needed it is strong and the cloth hangs better. Off bias cloth can be fitted but after awhile the garment starts hanging crooked. There is an overcoat that the back is set crooked. Don't remember why. Someone with a large seat maybe bias would be better. And maybe better for the shoulder blades.

True, almost any garment will start collapsing and draping downwards where the weft is not horizontal. Although charming for a silk satin shiftdress, not so for a structured overcoat! I have never been able to really distill a fixed rule for grainlines in womens' though. Sometimes the design (stripes, checks) is also at play. Take a women's swing coat; sometimes the centerback is almost straight grain and the sides neer full bias, other times it is straight grain near or at the middle of the half panel... I remember that Balenciaga coats with the "bombé" effect (the rounded backs) were straight grain from the back armpoint, exactly where he wanted it to bulge. Now back to the drafts above (and the tailoring matters I want to learn more about) Greger, would you consider cutting a checked fabric in the second draft?

Cheers, Hendrick 

Drawing it like that is one thing. Because getting dimensions can have an odd method of achievement. The warp threads would be aligned different. I would use the waist line to figure plumb and level. So the back piece would be tilted at the angle for level and plume when chalking on the cloth. Wouldn't want a V in the back. The hip shape might be off on the side panel.