Bespoke Cutter And Tailor

I think the shape of the front armhole could be better and the bottom of the armhole should/could be lowered the same amount as the drop for the sloping shoulder.
IMO I think the front is ok for length, and the balance seems pretty good at least from the photos.

I lowered the bottom of the arm hole and tried to make the shape at the front a little better. I have to keep in mind that there is 1/4" seam allowance here that will disappear when constructed.

I wonder if I shouldn't slope the shoulder on the fronts just a little bit more. The fabric is buckling a little bit at the front arm hole.

I tried to add a little bit of waist suppression back in here. I think that it was a mistake.

Some books written by tailors tell how and where to put inlays. If a seam is in the wrong place you can move the seam to a better place because you added cloth there for the purpose to find the best for that seam.
Another consideration is, do the fronts hang parallel when unfastened? This adjustment is made at the shoulder. Inlays are handy here. Sliding up or down on the side seam might work best. Without inlays you have to start with new cloth, and that gets expensive.
Inlays at shoulder width in case you want to move the pattern laterally (straightening, or crooked).
Books to look at about some of this is Clarence Poulin.
Hostek coat book has some good fitting advice.
When dealing with curves and seam allowances and inlays for certain parts of the fittings they can be lightly pressed on a tailors ham. Changes can easily be made.

Can anyone here refer me to methods to correct for a low shoulder? I was planning to follow Cabrera's method, but as I was cutting my next toile, I realized that this would pose problems for fabric with a pattern. So now I'm looking for good alternatives to this.

Simple version
Drop a vertical construction line through mid shoulder front and back.
Draw in a horizontal construction line parallel to chest line, two inches below armhole level
Decide how much you need to drop the shoulder, say .75cm draw in another horizontal  below the previous line.
Cut vertically and along the horizontal and shift the sections down.

You will have a jog at the shoulder and need to redraw/ true up shoulder lines.
Put shoulder lines together as they will be sewn and correct/true up redraw the armhole line

If you look in Poulin's book pages 101-3 he shows a method.

Quote from: TTailor on November 26, 2023, 12:14:47 AMSimple version
Drop a vertical construction line through mid shoulder front and back.
Draw in a horizontal construction line parallel to chest line, two inches below armhole level
Decide how much you need to drop the shoulder, say .75cm draw in another horizontal  below the previous line.
Cut vertically and along the horizontal and shift the sections down.

You will have a jog at the shoulder and need to redraw/ true up shoulder lines.
Put shoulder lines together as they will be sewn and correct/true up redraw the armhole line

This makes sense, thank you. Something like this was going to be my fall back plan.

Ugh, I hate to even ask for feedback on this, but there's no other way to get better than showing my efforts. At least I think that I can live with this for what it is, a casual summer suit.

The front might not be correctly aligned. Needs buttons.

The bottom pockets need to come way forward. It was way too late to fix by the time I noticed. I am afraid of how this will affect the side dart. Hiding the dart in the pocket is interesting, but a little bit challenging.

The shoulders are bunching up at my neck. I hope that this can be resolved by letting out the collar stand in the middle. I didn't leave enough to let it out more than maybe 1/2".

There is a lot of excess fabric in the back. I can take the back in a bit, but I'm not sure how well that will work.

I would like the bottom front to pull in just a little bit more, and I that in the future this can be accomplished by putting more tension here on the tape that I laid in along the front.

At least I am happy with the shape and length.

Also, a couple questions about notions. I used two different tapes for this waistcoat. A 1 cm wide twill tape for the front and 5 mm tape for the arm holes. The 1 cm twill tape seems to be almost twice as thick and I can easily feel it through the fabric. Is this probably too thick? The 5 mm tape is barely noticeable even by feel.




Also, I grabbed some dirt cheap corozo buttons from China tagging it onto some other order. Looking at these, the holes are laughably small. Even my nice shirt buttons have holes bigger than this. Are these usable at all? Or best sent to the waste bin? Corozo buttons on question on the right and some other buttons on the left for comparison.

Quote from: DrLang on December 12, 2023, 01:28:17 PMAlso, I grabbed some dirt cheap corozo buttons from China tagging it onto some other order. Looking at these, the holes are laughably small. Even my nice shirt buttons have holes bigger than this. Are these usable at all? Or best sent to the waste bin? Corozo buttons on question on the right and some other buttons on the left for comparison.

Just use a smaller/narrower needle for the buttons. Test one button on a bit of scrap. If you can get a few loops through with the twist/thread you use, they'll work. Obviously silk buttonhole thread is nice and strong, but if it's too thick consider thinner, machine embroidery thread (Gutermann 30 wt 'sulky' cotton for example).

You can also make your own button twist from regular cotton or silk thread (there are one or two methods on youtube), which might result in thinner thread than you have. I've stopped doing this, but you can loop thread through the hole of a bobbin and use the winder on your machine to make twist. Quoted directly from my notes (might not make much sense to an outsider, but still):

Make button twist with a full, outstretched arms' length of thread. Snap thread before cutting to re-tension it. Thread one end through hole in bobbin to form loop. Thread both ends through size 6 needle using a threader and tie together. Hold knot while twisting thread on the bobbin winder (go slowly). When tight beads are formed, remove at arm's length and place on ironing board. Maintaining grip on the knot, slide pin to middle of the twist, secure it in the board facing away. Gather both ends and twist a few turns in same direction as the bobbin was wound. Cut free bobbin. Twist remaining thread by hand. When done, hold twist by its end and suspend the needle. Stroke thread gently downwards, between thumb and finger, twice. Knot end and wax.

The key is to hold the thread under tension, but not taut, otherwise it breaks at the bobbin. It's a quick way to make twist, but it's even quicker to use some embroidery thread or silk twist (if you become lazy like me). 

Tape: the aim is a crispy but as thin as possible front edge. the twill tape is too thick I think, the other one would be sufficient. Instead of adding an extra facing you could cut on the facing and bend it in.

front edge: I think there went something wrong in drawing the front edge. The amount from point U towards the edge is much too wide. this should only be the button stand (overlap) width. This is  most probably the problem of your pattern. Please recheck following the instructions carefully.

Hem dart: I would skip the the hem dart. It creates a barrel shape wich even pronounces the belly. (BTW how did you create the horizontal dart? it is usually created by folding the hem dart close and thus opening the slash along the pocket line.)

shoulder neck: the neck shoulder area of the linnen version is not clean. the shoulder ripples and the neck band is rising much too high on the shirt collar/neck. this was no porblem in the dark version, so the error lies between the versions. Maybe you overdid the shoulder alteration. Estimating I think 1-1,5cm for the dropped right shoulder should be sufficiant. Also cutting on the neckband to the front can cause a lot of problems( wrong angle,  tight SAs, wrong clipping of the SAs ecc) I always cut it as an extra piece. open the shoulder seams (keeping the neckband) and look what happens. I´m sure they will gape towards the armhole.
The pattern instructions don´t mention the ironwork for waistcoats: Stretch the top 10-12cm of the front edge before installing the edge tape. this allows the waistcoat to follow the concave form of the body in this area.

Thread run: the thread run should be parallel to the construction line At-H of the pattern. This is important, not only for patterned cloth. yours is a bit slanted wich also pronounces the belly.

Thank you very much for your detailed feedback.

Quote from: peterle on December 15, 2023, 12:31:35 AMthe twill tape is too thick I think, the other one would be sufficient.

This was my feeling. I will toss the twill tape then.

Quote from: peterle on December 15, 2023, 12:31:35 AMfront edge: I think there went something wrong in drawing the front edge. The amount from point U towards the edge is much too wide. this should only be the button stand (overlap) width. This is  most probably the problem of your pattern. Please recheck following the instructions carefully.

I am going to blame bad pinning for now at least. I have since added buttonholes and buttons to make sure alignment is consistent. I will post new photos after I take in the sides, and try to deal with the collar/shoulders.

Quote from: peterle on December 15, 2023, 12:31:35 AMHem dart: I would skip the the hem dart. It creates a barrel shape wich even pronounces the belly. (BTW how did you create the horizontal dart? it is usually created by folding the hem dart close and thus opening the slash along the pocket line.)

I really wish that I could find some photos demonstrating how this is done. I am afraid that there is a lot that can be missed in interpretation. I don't recall my exact order of operations, but I believe the affect was the same. I attached the welt and pocketing along the bottom of the dart, and only then closed the dart up to the welt. Slashing the dart then opens up the pocket at the same time. I don't think I would do it quite the same way again.

Quote from: peterle on December 15, 2023, 12:31:35 AMshoulder neck: the neck shoulder area of the linnen version is not clean. the shoulder ripples and the neck band is rising much too high on the shirt collar/neck. this was no porblem in the dark version, so the error lies between the versions. Maybe you overdid the shoulder alteration. Estimating I think 1-1,5cm for the dropped right shoulder should be sufficiant. Also cutting on the neckband to the front can cause a lot of problems( wrong angle,  tight SAs, wrong clipping of the SAs ecc) I always cut it as an extra piece. open the shoulder seams (keeping the neckband) and look what happens. I´m sure they will gape towards the armhole.

This area is my single biggest concern. Not very visible in these photos, the backs are also bunching up a little bit at the collar. It looks to me like there is just not enough width in the neck. 1.5 cm is about exactly the correction that I applied for the dropped shoulder. There will be some very slight difference between the two in the adjustment I make for sloped shoulders, but I believe that it would be trivial. Maybe it wasn't though.

I did compare some measurements between the last version and this version when I saw the problem, but those were the same. I suppose that I should compare in more detail now.

There was no tape along the front edge in the dark toile. That is one very significant difference. I will take a closer look at the two and see if anything else sticks out.

Quote from: peterle on December 15, 2023, 12:31:35 AMThe pattern instructions don´t mention the ironwork for waistcoats: Stretch the top 10-12cm of the front edge before installing the edge tape. this allows the waistcoat to follow the concave form of the body in this area.

This is interesting. The construction guide that I followed had me applying tension to the tape along the front in this area. But what you are saying here makes sense. I will try to keep this in mind for next time.

Quote from: peterle on December 15, 2023, 12:31:35 AMThread run: the thread run should be parallel to the construction line At-H of the pattern. This is important, not only for patterned cloth. yours is a bit slanted wich also pronounces the belly.

As above, for now I am going to blame bad pinning for the photo. The thread was cut to be parallel with the front edge, which might be a little bit different than At-H, but should be very close. Any cutting deviation from that is purely a skill issue on my part.

QuoteThis was my feeling. I will toss the twill tape then.

If you can find India tape or tailor's tape that would be a better choice than twill tape. India tape is a cotton plain weave and is usually available in 1/4" 3/8" or 1/2 widths.

QuoteI really wish that I could find some photos demonstrating how this is done. I am afraid that there is a lot that can be missed in interpretation. I don't recall my exact order of operations, but I believe the affect was the same. I attached the welt and pocketing along the bottom of the dart, and only then closed the dart up to the welt. Slashing the dart then opens up the pocket at the same time. I don't think I would do it quite the same way again.

First, the angle of your lower pockets could be better. They are slanting upwards.
Second, the lower edge of the welt should be sewn 1/4" below horizontal dart at the waist. The dart itself become the cut line when making the welt pocket.
I will make a diagram about the rotation of the small dart from the hem to the horizontal waist dart.
 

I made quite a number of alterations here.  Unfortunately I did not keep photos on the affect of each one. So here are my observations.

It seems that over compensating for the sloped shoulders was definitely a major part of the problem. When I opened up the shoulders by about half an inch, the majority of the bunching at the shoulder line disappeared.

I then let out about 1/2" or a little more at the back of the collar and re-adjusted the tops of the back. In the last photo you can kind of see how it was before all of the alterations and gives you an idea of where everything went. I'm still not happy with the back right, but even that is much better.  I would like to let out a little bit more towards the arm, but I am starting to run out of inlay to do more than maybe 3 mm.

I have taken in the sides so much more than I ever thought that I would. This was a complete and total miss with my toile. It is so much that I wish the darts were a little more to the CB and I am a little bit concerned about the front now being grossly out of balance, but I honestly can't see the problem.

Everything should probably get another press. The eternal struggle with linen.

It feels like the front needs a little bit more length like a small quarter, only a smidge. As someone asked earlier, I think it was Greger, how do the fronts hang when unbuttoned? You have a fairly hollow back which creates unnecessary length and width at your back waist. Yes, the back darts need to be further round to the CB. I also think you could move your back notches up a tad thus passing the back down a bit to lose the extra length in that part. You will need to pin that out to see what the amounts would be. The right neckline has a bubble as you've noticed so maybe look at reshaping the neck curve, and possibly drop the right neck point a touch. Be nice to see the pattern for the back, might be worth looking at pinning out a bit between the back scye side seam as there also seems a bit too much width there. You would have to scoop out the back armhole to suit of course. It's a body garment so one can cut it quite close at the back. Anyway, those are my thoughts and opinions.