Women's trouser drafts

[Futura]

I hope the images are legible enough! I had to perch on a step stool to try and photograph the entire length of the patterns. The pencil doesn't show up very well.

[Gerry]

Really difficult to say what the problem is without seeing photos of your fitting issues. Though I totally understand why you wouldn't want to post pics! 

Where exactly does the muslin 'stretch out'? Did the toile feel tight anywhere?

[Futura]

Where exactly does the muslin 'stretch out'? Did the toile feel tight anywhere?

The muslin seemed to stretch out the most in the front under the belly, on the lower part of the center seam.

It definitely feels a bit tight on the back seat crotch length.

[Gerry]

Where exactly does the muslin 'stretch out'? Did the toile feel tight anywhere?

The muslin seemed to stretch out the most in the front under the belly, on the lower part of the center seam.

It definitely feels a bit tight on the back seat crotch length.

If you have a round tummy, then I'd say the front crotch extension needs to be wider. This would free-up the material in the front, in turn preventing the pulling forward of cloth at the back. Allow some inlay on the front fork and try widening it by an inch or so. If there's still a problem, then it could be from lack of ease across the seat. Or the back fork needs some attention (wrong shaping/width). Again, difficult to judge without seeing photos.

[theresa in tucson]

Futura, with women's trousers age has a lot to do with fit.  I'm a home sewer and found I had to straighten the front fly seam from slanted to vertical to give me more room over the tummy as I have lost my flat stomach.  I am also losing my narrow waist and have acquired hip fluff so those fitting challenges affect the pattern.  Standard drafting instructions don't take any of that into consideration.

[posaune]

Yes, it is quite a decisson whatand where to alter. I do not think that the front crotch extension is the right place to alter. I think it is the CF (Fly) because the extra sits above the crotch. I attach a pic. It is a mens trouser for big belly. You see the CF line. And the space I put in (red) as well as the length I add at front waist. By no measn you should do this. The gent has a waist about 145 cm.
But as Theresa wrote you can start with the front seam angle. Hip fluff is adressed at side seam. To avoid having too much fabric at the fork you can maybe better draft for a smaller hip and add the surplus later on the side seam.
But first I would look at your  measurements Front length is smaller than back length.  Side waist point value is between the two.  Average with ladies: Front an back areat the same level and the side waist point is higher 1.5 cm) Look at your posture  from the side. If your waistline is slanted a normal draft is not working for you. You have to balance the draft.
lg
posaune

[Futura]

Many thanks for all of the detailed replies! I really appreciate everyone's time.

I am not sure why the front of the muslin pants stretched out. The fabric seemed to lose its shape quickly. I don't think I'll be using muslin again any time soon.

I am including a few photos to try and decipher the balance issue before I cut another trial. The elastic may not be perfectly horizontal as it likes to grip onto my top. That being taken into account, does my waistline appear to dip lower in the front? (Please ignore the gaping low waist and saggy back on my ill fitting leggings. They are now a size too big and keep falling off. )

Thanks again for your help!

[posaune]

I do not hink the measurement of the waist is the problem.
I attach the side view pic of you. See the lines: the first vertical touches your cheeks. If you prolong it up to the shpoulder blades you will surely see the blades will not touch this line. The 2. line is not touching your ankles.
And your waist is dipping down from the horzontal line not much but it does.
I would draft a normal draft and then do the alterations on the pattern. Spread the back half the amount of the front dip take out the other half of front pattern. This will get you a bigger dart in back and a smaller or none in front.  You should controll too the circ from the thighs on the paper pattern. You may need more fabric in front pants. Look that you have enough fabric at the inseam at front.
lg
posaune

[Futura]

posaune, many thanks! That is extremely helpful. I greatly appreciate your assistance. 

Yes, the vertical line most certainly does not touch my shoulder blades as well. Where would these lines meet on a normally proportioned figure?

Is this the correct alteration?



Coming to think of it, I have a translated version of this book somewhere on my old laptop.

For the front leg width, would altering the thigh width affect the width at front knee and hem levels as well?

I'm off to wash the fabric for the new trial pants... 

[Futura]

Should I start with the seat angle as originally drafted? I am not sure why I got so many dragging fold lines on the back. Could that have been from increasing the knee and hem widths for a different style from the original draft?

(I'd really better get that new fabric prepared!)

[posaune]

If the pants draft is a thight one then the seat angle is so that it produces a longer crotch seam ( larger angle). Because you need the length for moving your leg (stepping stairs etc.). If your pants  legs are wide this moving room come out of the leg width. Not so with a tight leg. If you take the original seat angle please cut at the back crotch an allowance about 4 cm taper to 1 cm where the curvation begins. So you can open the back crotch and sew another angle. What you let out there you take in at side seam.
You should draw lines on your muslin CF, CB, Hip, Knee, and seat line. It is easier to see where alterations must be done.
The alteration for the protruding thight is only done from waist to knee the knee width and the hem stay as are. (I prefer to draft the front with 1-2 cm more ease and pin the rest).  And pay attention your left side has a deeper hip point. Look at back view.
lg
posaune

[Futura]

Many thanks for your detailed response! 

I've delayed cutting out the next pants, as I switched to the Müller draft. It takes too much time trying to reinvent the wheel by shifting a centimeter here and there to counteract the Romaniuk draft being drawn for equal hip widths front and back.

I played around with the alterations on paper yesterday. What amount would you suggest taking off the front for the dip and adding to the back based on the balance measurements? (Do these amounts need to be equal?) 

[Futura]

My thought would be to try removing 0.5 cm from the front, and adding 1 cm to the back.

CF to floor: 101.5 cm
CB to floor: 103 cm
Outseam: 103 cm

[Futura]

Is it possible to use a direct measured amount for the body depth from front to back at hip level on the draft? I measure 21.4 cm at hip level.

The draft gives a check for total crotch width (stride diameter) as 1/4 hip minus 4-6 cm with the inseams aligned. Is it possible to paste in an actual body measurement here (and alter accordingly) or does this not directly correspond? Just curious!

I need to test and see what a normal proportioned draft looks and fits like. I have too many questions running through my mind!

[Gerry]

Is it possible to use a direct measured amount for the body depth from front to back at hip level on the draft? I measure 21.4 cm at hip level.

The draft gives a check for total crotch width (stride diameter) as 1/4 hip minus 4-6 cm with the inseams aligned. Is it possible to paste in an actual body measurement here (and alter accordingly) or does this not directly correspond? Just curious!

I need to test and see what a normal proportioned draft looks and fits like. I have too many questions running through my mind!

If by crotch width, you mean the combined/total width of the fork extensions, then there is a measurement that takes a lot of the guess work out of the equation. It's still an estimate, but a very accurate one in my experience.

Hook one leg of a L-square to the back of the legs, at crotch level (just below the buttocks). The other leg of the square faces forward, at the side of one thigh. Now slide a ruler along the protruding L-square-leg until it meets the front of the body's legs. In effect, we've created an improvised calliper. Take the measurement.

From front to back, the crotch curve begins just above the pubic bone and ends at the curve going into the coccyx.

https://tailbonedoctor.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/453_Tailbone_Coccyx_Pelvic_Lymphatics_from_Gray_618_modified.gif

Short of drilling through the human body at that level, it's impossible to take a width measurement. However, if you look at a cross section of the human body in profile (see above), it can be seen that this distance is invariably mirrored by the thigh depth. Which is the measurement we took at crotch level.

If you meant something else, then my apologies.