Men's Trouser Fit Check

[jruley]

strangely the second pic in 132 doesn´t show, so I can´t say anything...

It should show now.  Please take a look and see if your dart still makes sense.

[peterle]

The folds in the second pic are much more relaxed than in the first and the superfluos length collects under the butt.

I think the dart will make sense.

[jruley]

OK, here we go.
First, since we were photographing the "back end" the shop cat decided he just HAD to pose :



This is a control shot before pinning the dart.  As I thought might happen, much of the stuff under the seat disappeared overnight while the trousers were on a hanger.



And here is the dart pinned out.  It does seem to help with the back folds:



Does this really just mean that I should start with a straighter seat angle?

I'll ask again:  Can this dart be manipulated away in the draft?

[peterle]

It helps a lot, doesn´t it?
It´s hard to see wether the seat seam is deep enough with the installed dart. You should feel it when wearing. It also depends on the underwear.

The dart that I had in mind should go from side seam to side seam. This would make it easy to alter the paper pattern without a dart just by pivoting.
Your shorter dart version could also be incorporated to the paper patter by manipulating the existing vertical dart. The horizontal dart must be enlongated to the short dart´s tip  which is the pivot point for the manipulation.

Regarding the seat angle: just using a straighter seat angle just shifts the back waistline towards the CB. It won´t change the overall length of the pairs at CB like the dart does: When you would have started with a straighter angle, wich is a good idea with a flatter butt, the necessary alterations would probably different ones.


I would be interested in a whole back pic with the pinned dart, but your left foot standing on a book wich is about 2-3cm thick, just to see the effect of the shifted hip.

[jruley]

I would be interested in a whole back pic with the pinned dart, but your left foot standing on a book wich is about 2-3cm thick, just to see the effect of the shifted hip.

Here it is:

[peterle]

Thank you.
I´t´s what I thought, the left leg fold changes it´s form and nearly disappears.

[jruley]

Thank you.
I´t´s what I thought, the left leg fold changes it´s form and nearly disappears.

Thank YOU!

So, am I good to go with changing the pattern and cutting another pair?

Or is there something else to try first?

[peterle]

I would prefer the horizontal darts to continue to the side seams.

Also  profile pics with the dart would be nice so see wether the balance changed positively.

[jruley]

OK.  So the pinned dart has been extended to the side seams.  What do you think?

[Greger]

A couple of books say about the back seam being to close that the fork/forks are to long. The newer, which isn't new anymore, says chop the back fork and gouge out and then run the seat and side seams parallel  with the old, but out a bit. Also, git better knee movement. This changes the dynamics of the inseam somewhat. The older book, by some association, says that the U shape, between the front and back, with forks touching, is to wide. Therefore, cut off one quarter of excess off the front and the rest off the back. How patterns are made today perhaps these are the wrong directions. The oldest book said the directions are illogical, but work better than the lengthening the forks. Not suggesting this kind of change now. But, thought I'd pass along the information if someone wants to experiment. To experiment just sew the difference, not cut until proven right or wrong.

Nice carpet Jim.

[peterle]

The back balance seems yet a bit too long for me. Does the back seam have enough room to rise or is it restricted by the body or underwear? It looks like the CB seems is pulled down.( when the scooping and the dart are the same amount, the back seam is  logically once more too short like it was in the beginning)

Like Posaune wrote in #111 You can measure the balance by measureing from the lower edge of the belt to the floor at CB and CF, and see wether the difference is also in the pattern.

[jruley]

when the scooping and the dart are the same amount, the back seam is  logically once more too short like it was in the beginning

So, I scooped out the crotch another 1/2".   Here is the result:









I don't think it changed the leg folds much if at all.  Does this mean Tom was right and the whole back needs to be passed up?  Not going there with this pair since the pockets are in.

[peterle]

Yes, probably It would be a good idea to take a closer look on the balance of the pattern. Taking all four balance measures (lower edge of belt to floor at CB,CF and on each side) would be helpful for the next pair.

This pair will wear in acceptably I think.

[Thom Bennett]

Don't sound so surprised Jim, don't forget to take the pins out though before wearing them in!     For the new pattern why not baste up a toile out of your final cloth but without pockets, these can be chalked on or thread marked. Of course you would have to install a proper fly, whether button or zipper.

[jruley]

For the new pattern why not baste up a toile out of your final cloth but without pockets, these can be chalked on or thread marked. Of course you would have to install a proper fly, whether button or zipper.

I'm going to do that, but first I'll post photos of the pattern alterations to make sure I understand everything correctly.

Taking all four balance measures (lower edge of belt to floor at CB,CF and on each side) would be helpful for the next pair.

I've never had any luck with balance measures, maybe my helper isn't accurate enough with a tape measure.

Anyway, if the balance measures OK but the garment fits funny, what does that prove?  That I measured wrong?  Or that the balance measure doesn't account for everything?

This is not to say balance measures are worthless; they just haven't been much help in my case.