Trouser fitting/drafting help

[Chanterelle]

EDITED IMAGE FORMAT

Hi folks,

Been having some difficulty with my trouser draft/muslin. The initial draft (not pictured) was done using Winifred Aldrich's method. The current pattern (pictured below) has been through many rounds of adjustments, including adjusting the back crotch angle and length, increases to the darts and back fork, dramatic scoop to the back crotch curve. The main issues are fitting my prominent bum and posterior pelvic tilt: when I manage to eliminate the excess fabric under my bum and achieve and reasonable drape, the crotch is unbearably tight; when I fix the tight crotch, the excess fabric/drag lines reappear. This has been my hellish seesaw for the past few months and I'm about ready to rip my hair out. In dire need of your help and expertise--I've about exhausted youtube and all the fitting books I can find.

Any comments or criticisms are appreciated. Just looking for some outside opinions!

Current muslin fit:












And the current pattern.







For what it's worth, I molded tin foil around my crotch to get an idea of what a comfortable curve would look like on my body. The red marker (if you can see it) is the center of the crotch.






Thanks!

[DrLang]

I'm far from the expert here, but I would consider lengthening the fork a little bit. I have severe anterior pelvic tilt and this was the secret fix for me after going through similar trouble with the seat.

[TTailor]

Metric pattern cutting for menswear? Right?
First I would check your measurements.

What I see off the top is the diagonal pulling from the bottom of the fly. So the curve there is too sharp or your seam allowances are to big and are interfering.

Hip size- what is the difference between your full hip and waist. I ask because you don't look like you need two deep darts in the back. The back looks like there is too much fabric.

The crotch curve and shape in tinfoil is not particularly useful on my opinion. A girth length from cf waist between the legs and to cb waist is useful as an overall length check measurement.

I don't have time right now to go into more, maybe Posaune will chime in.

[posaune]

Hi stewart, you did it! I. An look at the pics!

Now the pants,
You have a posture which we call here : Mannequin posture! Pest to fit.
This means you are pushing the belly into front and your Derrière follows, goes into front. Now the alteration are: you need a ,, big belly" cut in front and a flat derrière in back. You haven't a belly to speak of - but you press it in front and what you can see in your crotch curve the front is higher as the back. Standard it is otherwise round. Back is 4 cm higher than front.
And yep you need no 2 darts in back. So you have to put more length and fabric into front crotch and the back crotch should be a bit more steeper that will reduce length and therefor fabric.
Lg
Posaune
I' ll look if I can make you a drawing tomorrow

[Chanterelle]

Thanks much.

TT: yes metric pattern cutting. waist is 32", fullest part of the seat is 40.5. Measured the total crotch curve: on my body =30.5/31; on pattern=25.5+3"(waistband)=28.5. So as DrLang said, need to add some length in the crotch curve. As is, plenty of ease in the thigh, so wary of extending the fork any more. Hence the dramatic scoop, angled back crotch seam.

Things I notice that maybe aren't showing in the pics: inseam twists towards the front, inseam sits forward at fork, ie not in the middle of my leg. I have pretty straight hips and the fabric at the side seam forms a kind of bubble that does not follow the shape of my hip.

[peterle]

I can see the pics normally.

I think, you don´t have a prominent seat. The profile pics tell me that you have a forward hip posture. (probably the impression is only caused by your crossed arms. A profile pic with hanging arms and a vertical line like a door frame in the background, would be useful).

A forward hip posture needs a wider front and a narrower back, usually achieved by slashing vertical and pivot.

Thinking you have a prominent seat, you even added length ( by increasing the  back slant) and width (by installing so much dart width) to the back trousers. This gathers all the width at your back, thus lacking width at the front. The back is loose across the buttocks and the front clings to the body. In the profil pics you can see a stressed fold/strip runnig from the front crotch diagonal up to the first back dart. When making a trouser of this pattern, the front pockets will gape.

So my advice would be to do a forward hip alteration. But start with your original pattern draft, so you avoid keeping the irregularities that occured by working out the current version. You will end up with a front that has a dart and a less rounded side seam, and a back with much less dart width and a straighter seat angle. This should redistribute the widths to where they belong.

(you can do a quick and dirty teaser in rearranging the width by opening the outer back dart and installing a dart in the front to get an impression.)

And yes, fitting trousers is a complicated thing and fitting yourself even harder, but it´s worth the effort.

[Chanterelle]

Mannequin posture! Pest to fit.

You're telling me!

And yep you need no 2 darts in back. So you have to put more length and fabric into front crotch and the back crotch should be a bit more steeper that will reduce length and therefor fabric.

So my advice would be to do a forward hip alteration. But start with your original pattern draft, so you avoid keeping the irregularities that occured by working out the current version. You will end up with a front that has a dart and a less rounded side seam, and a back with much less dart width and a straighter seat angle. This should redistribute the widths to where they belong.

Following Pousane's and Perterle's suggestions, I made flat seat and full tummy adjustments to the original pattern. Here are the results with pattern. Adjustments listed/pictured below.

Images








Posture pic for good measure



Pattern







Adjustments
I added a 1" extension to the front fork/crotch curve, tapering into the inseam.


Split and tilted according to the image below, creating 1/4" added width at the waist.


Dropped the back crotch curve and straightened the back crotch seam


Impressions
- Gaping back waistband...possible shape the waistband or increase the darts?
- Back rise 1/2"+ too short
- Front rise too high
- a bit of 'moose knuckle' in the front crotch, in addition to drags from the hips to the fly. Perhaps I need to cut for dress (left) and increase the split tilt distance?
- back crotch curve rides a touch into my bum, though sitting is comfortable despite the lack of needed rise.
- Thighs are a bit tight seated--could use some extra width...add to front?
- the trouser is overall quite slim and hem sits a bit high for my taste

Thanks for all your suggestions! Looking forward to hearing more of your feedback

[peterle]

It looks a lot more balanced for me now.

First you should decide, wether you want a slim trouser or not. when you like the slim legs, proceed. Slim legs have to be shorter than wide ones. Slim pants also need more ironwork than wide ones.

Your alterations:
Front: the enlarged crotch tip dangles between your legs and can´t relax, because the trouser is too tight across the hip.Thus the camel toe. when you open the front crotch seam it will pop open.
You dont need a full tummy alteration, although something similar. on your original draft slash the fronts vertically from waist to knee line and slash the knee lines keeping hinges at the seams. Open the slash evenly to the right and the left of the center line. The additional amount at the waistline should become a dart (just about 8cm long). This creates a bit more width at the tighs, wich is desperately needed.
Install a zipper at the fly for the fitting  (just quick and dirty), so we can see witch folds come from the gaping fly.

Back: you also don´t need a flat bum adjustment, although something similar Your alteration decreases the slant, wich is a good thing, but made also your crotch curve steeper and reduces the width across the hip line. But this width is needed. So my approach would be to draw the crotch curve a bit fuller and to stretch the curve significantly with the iron BEFORE sewing it. (both pieces at the same time). when liying on the table there should be a wave in the area. This creates a concave shape wich is needed in this area.


Don´t care about the high rise, it can be altered easily later.

You only need dress, when you wear loose underwear (boxer shorts) Tight underwear packs everything higher and in the middle, so you don´t need an assymetrical cut.
 

[posaune]

I attach a drawing. Blue is the original. And black with red lines are the alteration. What I took out at back I inserted at front pattern. It is just what Peterle discribed. I added and took put at the seat not at hip
Lg
Posaune

[Chanterelle]

Somehow misplaced my pattern so started over but this time with Jane Rhinehart's technique. Below are the images.

THis to me is much closer than I've gotten. Too tight across the front, and still plenty of drag from posterior tilted hips. Maybe scoop and lengthen fork?

[Gerry]

As you say, it's too tight, particular across the front (you're bursting at the seams, almost). Personally, I'd sort that out first before making any adjustments to the fork(s).

I love your dog's expression in photo no. 2. Very Oliver Hardy: "You see what I have to put up with?!". 

[Chanterelle]

I love your dog's expression in photo no. 2. Very Oliver Hardy: "You see what I have to put up with?!". 

He's very judgmental...we call him inspector Charles...always needs to know what's going on and to give his approval. Not sure I got it here lol!

Adding ease in the sides amounts to just adding to the pattern outseam on the front panel? the problem is that the waist fits good as is...trying to avoid having a dart in the front for aesthetic reasons, and avoid an overly curved sideseam. Suggestions?

[Gerry]

Adding ease in the sides amounts to just adding to the pattern outseam on the front panel? the problem is that the waist fits good as is...trying to avoid having a dart in the front for aesthetic reasons, and avoid an overly curved sideseam. Suggestions?

Leave a belt or adjusters to hold up your trousers, don't rely on a waistband to do it. You can make your waistband a snug fit, but don't overtighten things to the point where it digs in (as is the case here).

You need to release the side seams, back and front, in equal measure. Otherwise you'll be dragging the seams towards the back over the hip area, giving them a crooked appearance. If letting things out disrupts the fit at the back ...well, that's what darts are for.

[Greger]

You may have the right dimension across the front of your pattern. But it's not in the right place. If you move the top line, perhaps 1/2 inch forwards and redraw the the lines down to the rest of the draft. Because your belly is forward a bit you can't draw the line straight up in front. If you add inlays, when cutting the cloth, the inlays leaves room for adjustments available when you have it on. The inlays are for fitting purposes, and that excess, is cut off later when you are sure the fit is correct, and then, the pattern is adjusted. The lines will be curved. You may need extra height in the front, too. Talking about both the front and side seam lines down about 8 inches, more or less.

[Schneiderfrei]

He's very judgmental...we call him inspector Charles...always needs to know what's going on and to give his approval. Not sure I got it here lol!

My Aunt had a Shar Pei. It was like an international border crossing agent. If you didn't have the correct odour, no entry!

At the end of my cousins marriage, before it ended, it bit her husband in the crotch without warning - Nasty.