Fitting trouser muslin

[DrLang]

My Thoughts:

I presume this will be suspender pants.

First I think your back darts are yet too long and shoud be 5cm shorter. the tips must not reach the hip line depth. Give it a try, the pant will fall smoother.

Second I think the fronts are to too tight between hip line and waist at the moment. they cling very smooth to the body and are a bit concave below the belly as you can see in the profil views.the fabric almost seems a bit stretched and the otherwise vertical side seams are pulled a bit forward at the top. this hinders the fronts in falling freely wich results in those vertical waves. I would add 5-7,5mm  on each end of the waistline (sideseam and zipper line) fading out to 0mm at the hip line. When you don´t like the additional 1-1,5cm at the front waistline, take it out with a short front dart.

In general I think the muslin is modeled very closly to your body. Please keep in mind, adding the usual pockets and lining ecc will add quite a bit of material to be covered, as does using a thicker fabric. This can easily produce stress folds and gaping pockets when neglected.

Kepp on, good work so far. Perfect pants are quite a challenge!

You are correct that these will be explicitly suspender pants. I also think I am reaching a limit of what I can see without actually attaching suspenders. These changes have them not staying up so well and pinning to my shirt is proving not very repeatable.

I see what you are saying about the darts and the front.

Here I raised the darts. I think that it might have even helped the front a little bit. Hard to tell if that's just the variability of my stance.









And here I added to the side seams on the front as you suggested. I did not carry it through the waist band because that will be a pain to alter right now. I think it helped and I will add this to the pattern going through the waist band. Darts will be needed as these are getting a little bit too roomy up there.










Obviously I now have a line running right to one of the pins holding them up. I assume that this can be addressed in the final fitting at the waist.

I'm sure that I can do more, but I am going to cut my next trousers with these adjustments. These will be linen trousers for a some day linen suit, and I feel happy enough with this for something that casual. I'm going to keep this toile for future adjustments.

Thank you

[Schneiderfrei]

left side looks good.

[EvanTA]

In general I think the muslin is modeled very closly to your body. Please keep in mind, adding the usual pockets and lining ecc will add quite a bit of material to be covered, as does using a thicker fabric. This can easily produce stress folds and gaping pockets when neglected.

Good point, I'm working on my first muslin now, any advice for how to plan for this? Pin cotton socks on the inside where I'd likely have side and back pockets, and maybe a little folded strip of fabric where the waistband would be? Are there standard allowances recommended for accounting for this, or is it more the case that the muslin only gets you so far, you'll still have some adjusting to do with the main fabric.

[DrLang]

In general I think the muslin is modeled very closly to your body. Please keep in mind, adding the usual pockets and lining ecc will add quite a bit of material to be covered, as does using a thicker fabric. This can easily produce stress folds and gaping pockets when neglected.

Good point, I'm working on my first muslin now, any advice for how to plan for this? Pin cotton socks on the inside where I'd likely have side and back pockets, and maybe a little folded strip of fabric where the waistband would be? Are there standard allowances recommended for accounting for this, or is it more the case that the muslin only gets you so far, you'll still have some adjusting to do with the main fabric.

I'm (obviously) no expert, but I do think you will want to attach a waistband of some kind to your muslin. There is a waistband on mine, but it is hidden because of the particular style. It just contributes too much to the shape (or maintaining the shape) to leave out. You will want a functioning fly as well, and probably with a zipper if you will use a zipper. Mine is just pinned together most of the way and I have a working clip sewn in at the top, but it will be a button fly.

Another lesson quickly learned is that light weight cotton stinks as a muslin. Forget that it doesn't drape, it also changes shape when you so much as look at it wrong.

I also expect that I will need to make further adjustments once I cut and assemble my primary fabric. The fabric I have been using for my muslin is similar, but is a little lighter weight than the final fabric and probably does not quite drape the same. My hope is that the pattern is now close enough that I can acceptably adjust the final piece. I'm definitely pushing the limits of my muslin's seam allowance in at least one place. Overall though, I think that I lucked out with the pattern I purchased and my modifications are mostly pretty small. There is another thread on this forum where someone goes through some serious pattern adjustments.

[DrLang]

Alrighty, I'm back for more pain.

After pattern adjustments from the toile, this is how it came out in the primary fabric (linen). I'm surprisingly happy with this. The waist needs to come in about an inch. But other than that, I would be pleased if nothing else changed. That said, I do see some potential room for improvement and would like to hear what you all think.

Changes I would make if I were to start from scratch would be to take the waist in half an inch at each side and use two darts on each side instead of one. Especially the right leg breaks in the back at my knee, but I assume some iron work (which will probably not work well on linen) would go a long way towards reducing that? Not sure why the right one in particular is worse than the left.

An adjacent question, how would I adapt the pattern for a belt? I assume that I just need to lower the top, but is there any good advice on how to identify where to lower it to? I happened to be in Los Angeles last week and picked up some remnant wool from B. Black & Sons that should make a nice pair of odd trousers. I would hate to start from scratch on the pattern. I suppose I could just go zoot suit style and throw on some belt loops. 😂

[Gerry]

Big improvement from your first efforts. Well done to get this far.

Yes, a few minor issues. Difficult to diagnose 'long-distance' (a lot of things are more obvious up-close-in-person). However, there's possibly a balance issue on the RH side seam. It looks as though the back panel is misaligned: slightly higher than the front? It's twisting the seam towards the back as a result. The dimpling at the hip suggests some creep/gathering here, which may be the start of the problem. Could be a postural thing though (again, easier to diagnose in person).

LHS has a very obvious 'step' at the transition into the fullest part of the seat. Possibly release the CB seam over that area on the LHS only. Unless there is misalignment on the RHS - the same issue might result on that side too, once corrected, in which case the CB would be released evenly on both sides. The stepping could instead be an issue with the dart being too deep/scooped, but I can't tell from your photo. When I magnify the back view everything is blurred and I can't see where the darts end.

Wait for other replies before ripping into your trousers. The more heads at work on this, the better. Still very good though.

[DrLang]

Big improvement from your first efforts. Well done to get this far.

Yes, a few minor issues. Difficult to diagnose 'long-distance' (a lot of things are more obvious up-close-in-person). However, there's possibly a balance issue on the RH side seam. It looks as though the back panel is misaligned: slightly higher than the front? It's twisting the seam towards the back as a result. The dimpling at the hip suggests some creep/gathering here, which may be the start of the problem. Could be a postural thing though (again, easier to diagnose in person).

LHS has a very obvious 'step' at the transition into the fullest part of the seat. Possibly release the CB seam over that area on the LHS only. Unless there is misalignment on the RHS - the same issue might result on that side too, once corrected, in which case the CB would be released evenly on both sides. The stepping could instead be an issue with the dart being too deep/scooped, but I can't tell from your photo. When I magnify the back view everything is blurred and I can't see where the darts end.

Wait for other replies before ripping into your trousers. The more heads at work on this, the better. Still very good though.

Thank you, I appreciate the encouragement. Sorry about the photo quality. I'm stuck taking a video on my phone and clipping out screenshots until I figure out something better. Posture is definitely part of the issue. Below is an update after modifying the top of the darts to take in the waist a little and give them a more appropriate shape.

With the below photos I can clearly see that the right hip could be taken in a bit.

I wish that I could post a video so that you could at least see the variability of my posture. It's hard to tell if I am standing naturally or just trying to stand so that the legs hang well.

[stoo23]

Hi there,

I wish that I could post a video so that you could at least see the variability of my posture.

well, you could perhaps create a Youtube Channel, upload and 'link' to the video there or perhaps similarly to a FaceAche page if you have one.

You can always Delete the video after it has been reviewed here   

Just an idea 
cheers

[Gerry]

Below is an update after modifying the top of the darts to take in the waist a little and give them a more appropriate shape ... It's hard to tell if I am standing naturally or just trying to stand so that the legs hang well.

Well, whatever you did it looks a lot better. As you say, if you're standing a certain way to get the RHS looking clean (and you didn't adjust the side seam), then it's a postural thing that's causing the issue there. That would require doctoring the draft.

By the way, I've yet to make a perfect garment of any description. There are always things that niggle me, even if I like the end the result and it looks good on me. At some point you have to bite the bullet, finish and wear stuff. It all gets better with experience. And you have to remind yourself how bad the fit is with a lot of ready-to-wear.   

[DrLang]

And you have to remind yourself how bad the fit is with a lot of ready-to-wear.   

Ha! This is exactly why I said that I would be quite happy even if nothing else changed. This is probably the best fitting trousers I have ever worn. I might try to narrow the legs a bit though. Almost all of the leg and crotch seams are only hand basted right now, so making some changes is still easy.

[Greger]

The baggy leg style is slowly showing up. Narrow is becoming history and stayed around way way to long.
Cloth should be loose enough for the cloth to fall freely. Especially now since the nonsense of tigh is disappearing faster and faster.

[DrLang]

The baggy leg style is slowly showing up. Narrow is becoming history and stayed around way way to long.
Cloth should be loose enough for the cloth to fall freely. Especially now since the nonsense of tigh is disappearing faster and faster.

I don't disagree one bit. Nevertheless, these seemed a bit big to me. That said, I just got done reducing one side and now I'm thinking otherwise. Time to go back to where it was and just finish the trousers.

[Greger]

One of the first lessons I learned was, got to have room in your clothes to move. The cloth needs to flow with the movement. It needs to be loose enough that the cloth falls freely. Too close and it is hung up on the body causing problems.

[posaune]

Hi DrLang,
If you want looking the 30er Style, well done.
I have looked at the pics and one thing I noted is the Front. The waistband looks from sideseam to Center like a V (a bit exergerated). If you alter this giving the right and left fly a right angle at Center. This would result in a curved waistband it would improve the look and maybe get the band nearer to the body at center.
Then the suspenders. In my Opinion they are too long. The ,,yoke"part (Where front and back meet) sits too high at your back. It should rest lower so all of it has contact to your back.
Lg
Posaune

[Greger]

Men today buy trousers that high of waist line. Savil Row still make them. The purpose is to give the impression that the legs are longer. Savil Row is known for "Classic Fit", which is, not following trends. I call them "plane janes". Father wears it until he is to fat. Son wears it until to fat. Then grandson. Savil Row follow trends, too. The price of Savil Row trousers are perhaps $1500. The craft manship of plane janes can be incredible. Some are not done very well. I've seen trousers waist bands way higher. Your waist band height is fine. Depends on what circles you run in. Some of the independents wear some of the finest clothes.