Problems understanding draft

[DengLinPiano]

A is the starting point. Square both ways.
1 from A is the scye depth, plus 1/4 inches
2 from 1 is 1.5 inches, instead of the usual 1 inch; this extra 0.5inches is for deeper arm scye
3 is halfway between 1 and A
4 is halfway between 3 and A
5 from A is the waistline, plus 1 inch
6 from A is the full length. Square out all lines
7 from 5 is 1 inch
8 falls on bottom construction line. Square out on line 7-8. Shape the back from 4 through 3, adding a slight round from 3 to 2, as shown.
9 from A is 1/6th of the raised 41 inch breast on the square, plus 1/4 inch
10 from 9 is 1 inch. shape the neck.

I recently purchased 'The Modern Mitchell's System of Designing' with the intention of learning how to draft patterns with no prior knowledge. I was reading through the draft for the Polo Coat as that's one of my tailoring goals. However, when I got up to points 8-10 I became unsure of a few points.

What does 'shape the back' and 'shape the neck' mean? In regards to 8, I don't see a slight round from 3 to 2 in the diagram. Also, how would one determine by how much to round the interval by? What does the raised 41-inch breast on the square refer to?

Sorry if these are amateur questions.

[posaune]

Shape the neck and back means do a nice curve which has no kinks. There is a slight round - it is slight: about  3-5 mm look at the silouhette of your back and ends at 2 - nowaday with computers it maybe more.
As I assume they have enlarged the bust width to 41 inches you take from the 41 the 1/6 . In single breast coats in this system - it can be - you take from the normal bust - I do not know the system.
And to learn drafting - why not choose something easier?
lg
posaune

[DengLinPiano]

Shape the neck and back means do a nice curve which has no kinks. There is a slight round - it is slight: about  3-5 mm look at the silouhette of your back and ends at 2 - nowaday with computers it maybe more.
As I assume they have enlarged the bust width to 41 inches you take from the 41 the 1/6 . In single breast coats in this system - it can be - you take from the normal bust - I do not know the system.
And to learn drafting - why not choose something easier?
lg
posaune

What does do the phrases "Square both ways", "square all lines", "square up and down", "on the square" mean? 

[Schneiderfrei]

Aha, yes,  It means rule out at 90 degrees, i.e. a right angle.  Its an old term.

G

[TTailor]

What does do the phrases "Square both ways", "square all lines", "square up and down", "on the square" mean? 

Square both ways, lines up and down means  to draw a line squared (at a 90° angle) to the line indicated or the previous line.

On the square is different.
This means to use the measurements that are found on a tailors square.
The tailors' square is a tool with divisional markings on it.
The markings are divisions of half, quarter, eighth, sixteenth etc on one arm of the square, and sixths thirds etc on the other.
Here is a link of a more in depth description https://atailormadeit.blogspot.com/2011/09/trouser-drafting-terminology.html

I have that book, I cannot say that it is the easiest to understand, beware of typos, and it is of its time, so the patterns in some cases will have a 1950's ish feel if I recall it correctly.

[hutch--]

Hi DengLin,

Welcome on board. Would it be possible for you to take a smaller photo of your pattern so it can be seen on a computer screen. This way one of our members may be able to help you.

[DengLinPiano]

I have that book, I cannot say that it is the easiest to understand, beware of typos, and it is of its time, so the patterns in some cases will have a 1950's ish feel if I recall it correctly.

What are some books which you recommend which have more updated patterns?

I also have some miscellaneous questions which anyone can answer:
Since the 1930s were the golden age of menswear would it be of benefit to learn about patterns from that time?
Do you know where to find resources on how to draft less conventional variations of the coat, such as the wrap around coat or the bridge coat?

[Greger]

"9 from A is 1/6th of the raised 41 inch breast on the square, plus 1/4 inch"

The Raised part could be an additional part of the "Scale" measure. It might be 6 inches. There probably is a description explaining measurements. Some of these pattern systems use both (or more) of these measures, and you have to pay attention applying the right one at the correct location.
The other possiblity, which is probably this one, is that an overcoat goes over the regular coat, so it needs to be larger. 41 inches is not a normal example chest number for regular coat. The regular coat chest measure is probably 36 inches. An overcoat needs several inches more for the coat to fit over the regular coat using the same measurements. Therefore, 36 + 5 = 41 this should make the overcoat large enough.
The answer is surely in the book. Tailoring has some interesting ways of thinking. Since tailoring is of the visual world its writing is aimed at visual to create the visual world, clothes. This means you are leaving the word world and think with pictures more and more. In this case the directions start with a vertical line and points are added to it. Then crosswise lines are added. Then the pattern lines are added. The pattern (style) lines, some are straight and others curved. The picture (diagram), by visual, shows where and shape of curves. One method in the old days you would get a picture, about 4 inches with a couple measurements, and there is a way to enlarge it according to those measurements. Then it is graded up and down for different sizes. For the customer the best size is chosen and laid on the cloth where a number of changes are made for that customer. Inlays are added when cutting for further adjustments. That same pattern can be adapted for vest, overcoat and cape.

[TTailor]

What are some books which you recommend which have more updated patterns?

There is a separate section here on good books to own, you should check that out. Go to the home page and look for it under the categories.

[TTailor]

I also have some miscellaneous questions which anyone can answer:
Since the 1930s were the golden age of menswear would it be of benefit to learn about patterns from that time?
Do you know where to find resources on how to draft less conventional variations of the coat, such as the wrap around coat or the bridge coat?

I think the 1930’s certainly has a cachet to it, and I personally it is one of my favourite periods, studying it as a basis for how to draft won't necessarily get you more understanding on its own.

In older drafts there is a lot of information that is not written regarding the process of making up garments, and how the patterns work. That is because they were never meant as a sole source of information for learning the trade. They made the most sense to people who had done an apprenticeship as a tailor/cutter.
In many newer drafting books, there has been a tend to oversimplify and generally produce really rudimentary shaped garments that are less fitted.

To use any them successfully in a professional manner you really need a good ground work in understanding how to sew, general patternmaking techniques and the relationship of the flat pattern to the body.

Of course you can also just follow a draft and try it out to see what you can make if it.

What is your goal, and what experience do you have already? That will help people here help you.

[Schneiderfrei]

The 30's I like, in many ways, and wow all that extra cloth!!!!  The drafts were not anywhere near precisely close to a figure.

[Hendrick]

And note that drafts in those days were never meant as "finished garments"but rather the preparation for one or more extensive fitting sessions. Fabrics were far richer and sturdy, like the old worsteds. And lastly, like TTailor states, the experience of the cutter in judging the cut versus the fabric was paramount to the final flow and drape of the garment. In my younger days I tried lots of older drafts with sometimes hilarious results...

[Schneiderfrei]

Pre 1960's shirt drafts were very much like envelopes, and jacket drafts were typically bag shaped.

Now, a modern Mueller draft is much more like a fitted box.

The Parson's Shirt, which you can find in this forum has 10 inches doubled of ease at the chest line. Enormous. I made a copy of this tunic from the 2000 Mueller shirt, full cut draft which has a total of 10.5 cm. It feels good to wear and is fuller than the regular let alone the slim fit draft.

G

There's a big difference.

[Greger]

At least some cutters are taught where to add or shrink ease among other things like style, shoulder slope, balance, overweight and so on. Therefore, Parson's Shirt draft can be adapted to many styles, slim, baggy, whatever -just right- is. Another example is some older guys would like their neck hidden (unsightly wrinkled skin or scar) by adapting the shirt and collar stand this can be done. Another change is wider front and then, a narrower back, vice versa.