Bespoke Cutter And Tailor

Quote from: jruley on November 29, 2024, 10:02:12 PMI don't understand what you are trying to do with the front neckline.  Does it need to be lower, more scooped out, or what?

This is nothing to do with fit, it's pure aesthetics. Comparing the left side of the neck hole to the right, there's some aymmetry of shape, which needs addressing. And while we're at it, we might as well make the neck hole look nicer.

The curvature that I drew in is what I would want to see on the garment. And if it's a little deeper, so be it. That wasn't the aim, but you can see that by lowering the neck hole slightly it allows the shirt collar to breathe a little. It just looks better to my eyes.

It's up to you how you shape and neck hole of course, but as things stand you've got some asymmetry at the front and at the back; and that definitely needs sorting out.

Thanks Gerry, especially for your persistence about widening the neckhole.  That made all the difference.

I don't understand what you are trying to do with the front neckline.  Does it need to be lower, more scooped out, or what?

Another tiny observation. I might be wrong, but I'm guessing that your darts are about a quarter to 3/8ths outside of each apex. Feel where each apex (nipple) is and measure between the two. Halve that distance and bring it out from the CF in both directions, to mark the vertical drop of each dart.

It's not that critical here, this is more of an aesthetic thing. Using definite points of the body as references for seams/darts/suppression etc always (well, mostly) looks better.

PS I'd recommend watching some elementary draping vids on youtube. Plus some advanced ones, just for inspiration. Your front darts could be pinned (you'll get the best results that way); and in an ideal world, your back too ... but difficult to do oneself.

Either way, you'll see just how bold drapers can be when working with toiles. Don't be afraid to try stuff out. It's just cheap cloth, we can always start anew if things don't go well.

That's much better Jim, well done for persevering. A couple of very minor points:

Firstly, pin the bottom of your fronts too. As things stand, the fronts look fairly balanced when 'unbuttoned' so I don't think there's a further problem. However, because you left that area open when 'buttoned' (pinned), the LHS swayed out a little, giving the false impression of a balance problem. I don't think there's any real issue here, but it does make fitting evaluations easier.

Secondly, if I were draping this, then once the balance lines were looking good, I'd literally take an erasable pen or pencil and draw in the lines that I want to see. This sort of thing (but hopefully done better - the limitations of using MS Paint!):





That curve in the last snap would be mirrored on the RHS, BTW. And the line in the first snap wouldn't be so straight (though hopefully it's highlighting better symmetry).

When happy with the results, cut away the surplus cloth and transfer the new lines to your pattern. You can always skip the first step if you're uncertain about the shape (at least you'll still have cloth to play around with). As things stand, you have a little asymmetry that needs tidying up. I must reiterate though, this stage is only done once the balance is looking good.

Unpinned:

This evening's changes:

- Right shoulder seam has been matched at the neckhole. 
- 1/4" width has been added to the sides and front of the neckhole, graduating to nothing at the nape, taped, turned and basted.
- Left button stand has been pressed under at the centerline and basted down
- A small bit of width (1/2" total) has been pinned out of the right back between the chest and waist lines.

Tell me what you think.

Pinned:

When I make a toile, I iron the left bottom stand inwards so I can match the center lines more precisely. I also pin it close up to the neck, because this reveals eventual issues with the neck hole. I also prefer a shirt with collar for fitting, because it's collar sits better in place. A sweater shifts, is bumpy or has a too wide neck hole.
Regarding neck hole width: For my 100cm chest measure the back neck construction width (W-h in the posted patter) is:
shirt:7,5cm
Vest, lounge coat: 8cm
Overcoat: 8,5cm

QuoteI'm a little bit reluctant to change the neckhole because I have a well proven collar pattern that works.

Jim, all I can say is that your existing toile has a problem; and by the look of things, you had the same problem with the original design. Look at the neckline with the collar turned up:



It has a slight, diagonal slant, just like your toile. The yolk has a similar slant too. Is it well proven?

Even if your body has a slight lilt, the garment will look better if it doesn't. Balance lines and horizontal seams need to be level with the floor and you need to do whatever it takes to make that happen. Of course you can ignore these signals. Your new coat may look OK, but it will look/fit a hell of a lot better by getting the balance right. And just think how it would look in its current incarnation with patterned cloth.

The last toile I made looked as if it had been in a warzone. Pockmarked all over from needle scars (I machine basted a lot of it); slashes to the armholes and neck; biro marks here, there and everywhere; wrinkled from multiple try-ons. There's no need to be precious about your test garment, be bold and experiment.

When adapting a coat from a shirt pattern, extra width is require at the neck to allow room for the undergarment (invariably a shirt). Similarly, when adapting a coat pattern to an overcoat, further neck width is required to allow the jacket's collar to 'breath'. In this case you need a little more room for your jumper; and for the jacket to hang more from the shoulders, not just towards the sides of the neck.

This collar can also be worn up:







I think it works well, and it's comfortable - but tell me what you see.