I have been making patterns by hand for more than 30 years now.
I like to draw and I get a lot of satisfaction from manual pattern making and I enjoy the flexibility of "thinking" with paper.
I have never before attempted to use any kind of computerized system for pattern-making. However during the past 10 months of interruption of normal life, I have been trying out new things and one of them has been to find and learn to use the computer to draft patterns.
I don't think that this will replace manual drafting for me, but may be useful in some way, some day.
I have downloaded Valentina, and have set out to learn how to use it.
Perhaps if others here have experience or are interested in this topic we can explore it together.
If you do use a program for drafting, which system do you know and what are its good points and what is it lacking?
https://valentinaproject.bitbucket.io/ (https://valentinaproject.bitbucket.io/)
I've been doing3D CAD for 20 years, but not for this field. I'm very interested in orbiting on the periphery of the discussion so I don't overwhelm the topic with geek math, but can say using CAD makes sense, iff payback happens and, most importantly, classic manual skills don't suffer. Also, I agree the satisfaction that comes with drawing with pencils, or whatever, feeds the creative spirit much better than computer keyboard strokes, etc...
Cost certainly is a factor, and for me, an open source platform makes sense as I am learning with no particular end point in mind.
Looking forward to any and all input.
I can already say that I am slightly frustrated by the process being less spontaneous than what I am used to.
If I want to put in a notch or balance mark, I have to learn a seemingly complicated process when manually it is so simple.
I believe some of the software out there seems to cater more to that manner of working, though I may be wrong. Not enough knowledge yet🙂
Terri, what you are doing with Valentina is not easy for a beginner. You are educating your mind thinking in another way. Here you draft not only a pattern - you draft a pattern which can be "graded" after the drawing simply with inserting another measuretable. Measuretables are bend to make the grading easier - but with the Cad System you can use personal measurements - which maybe derive a lot from the standard measures. Sometimes lines are not connecting like in the standard draft and you will not get a pattern. To prevent this there is some routine needed. So give you some time.
I do not use Valentina - in my CAD system I learned first to draft a simple pattern and it was like with pencil and ruler and circle. What I had to snap first was the different function of the mouse. I started with something simple like a pocket or collar. I had to understood the x and y coordinates.
Later I changed into programming like in Valentina. It was easy then because I was used how the program worked.
You will see - after the first steps - it will give you satisfying results.
lg
posaune
And doing a pattern in gent Size 60 is way easier on my back doing it on a laptop instead of a table!
So,,, I think after a false start, I was successful in drafting up a bodice block. If anyone has insight into my thoughts here, great! otherwise I will continue on and see if it becomes easier for me to use.
I like the measurement calculation/formula tables and it did not seem difficult to use them, just different.
I like the ability to use the axis point tool to set up my gridlines.
I discovered the true dart tool and used it on the back shoulder dart, but I had to connect the original points of the dart legs to the new points or the legs, but I think next time I will draw the finished lines afterwards.
is there a way to just extend a line/modify the point placement?
I struggled with the workpiece tool. I had trouble getting it to outline the pieces completely but I suspect I have to approach the way I make the points, lines and curves differently.
I did manage to get the pieces to the detail stage. I don't know why the points are not all indicated in the detail mode. I wonder if there is a way to keep some guidelines on the final pattern, such as the scye line?
The seam allowance function is painful to modify. I had to play around with a simple square pattern piece to modify the seam allowance sizes within the same pattern piece.
Why is there no basic text tool, it seems overly complicated just to label your pieces.
I need to explore more!
I thought there was an option for dotted or dash lines and colours of lines, but perhaps I have looked at so many systems I am confused!
(https://i.postimg.cc/T5wWP0HZ/screen-shot-Valentina-Jan18.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/T5wWP0HZ)
(https://i.postimg.cc/JtJf686H/Screen-Shot-2021-01-19-at-10-12-41-AM.png) (https://postimg.cc/JtJf686H)
This is the basic outline.
Posaune I think we were posting at the same time!
:)
Aha, that looks suspiciously like a MAC. Software looks good, I see a future for production and a certain type of flexibility for different sized people but I don't believe it will replace manual pattern design, they will live side by side as both approaches have their strengths.
Is working on a MAC problematic?🤷♀️😁
Only if you were used to something else. 🥼🧦👔
Why use a toy to do a proper job??
;)
Terri, hello !
In these days I was thinking to do the same, for designing a shirt model and then adapt to the mesurments of the different clients
I would like to ask you: what will you need then ?
I think that buying a comoputerized cutting table would be too expensive .
Maybe a plotter to print the drafts and then cut the pieces by hand,
or maybe a plotter that cut also the paper ?
I do not have any ideas of how much these could cost.
Andrea
I have not looked into the cost of a plotter for printing. I don't know if it would be a reasonable expense for me.
At this point I think that figuring out the software is my priority and I am getting better at it.
I have not yet created a basic model and tried to generate different sizes, but I am getting close to it.
I also have not yet tried to print a pattern out on a regular printer. I will do that.
Once I get a pattern I want to work with, I am also going to try to have it printed at a local copy shop to see how it turns out and what the cost might be.
Hi, this is so interesting to me.
I have just started to learn pattern drafting and after a pencil and paper draft, I thought, "let's do it digitally."
I have been working in the Graphics/CAD/computers field for decades. Once you get the basic principals of digital drawing and pixel manipulation learnt, it's fairly rudimentary to go from program to program, ie. SketchUp, AutoCad, Freehand, Illustrator etc.
I was unaware of this program, "Valentina." There is also another one, that was split-off from the original project, called Seamly2D. Both are open-source.
There is a very informative page, dated Dec. 2017, on their creation here: https://librearts.org/2017/12/valentina-seamly2d/
When I started down the computers/graphics side of life in the mid-80's, you would have to spend 100s to 1000's of dollars for software, and even so today.
I love that you can now get open-source software for free that will amaze you with it's power to create.
Having been down this road before, I would recommended that you save, in a safe spot, the original "installation download file," in case it no longer is available in the future.
Terri, I can see from your blog and such, that you are good at drawing and envisioning 3d from 2d, so I don't think you'll have a hard time learning to do this.
Thank you for posting about this. I am going to try my hand at these programs.
Good luck and ? ( Is there a phrase for tailors similar to "break-a-leg")
PS, there is a good video on Valentina at an Open Tech Summit 2016.
Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_viwqzg34Rw
Break a leg is fine!
Thanks, I have a lot of pattern-making under my belt, so you are correct, one aspect of the task is already accomplished, and although the computer is available I just never utilized it as a tool for an artistic endeavour.
I feel that I am getting somewhere though.
I had trouble getting my mac to open Seamly 2D which is why I am using Valentina for the moment.
Thanks for the tip about saving the download file. I will go away and google how to do that!
Here is my most recent attempt. There are still a few tool I find awkward to use, and there are a couple of things I want to change. I am mostly trying to get a sense of how to efficiently set up my grid and important landmarks and to not forget to insert things I will want later.
(https://i.postimg.cc/FkHxZzpq/23-EDC898-2814-429-E-A23-B-6-C86-E94967-DD.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FkHxZzpq)
Terri, hallo !
I did donwload Valentina.
I am not used to cad designing.
Where did you start to study it ? You just practice or did you find Youtube tutorial ?
I saw the Valentina's page on Wikipedia, where there are a bit of instructions .
Any suggestion on where I could start my studies ?
Thanks,
Andrea
I watched as many of the youtube videos as I could, and I still go back and watch more.
I also was learning inkscape which is like Illustrator. I learned many things there that are used in Valentina.
I have many years of pattern making already, so I am not trying to learn Valentina and pattern making.
Valentina does not teach how to make patterns, just how to use software to make patterns
Terri, that looks really good !
It looks like you found how to do dashed lines. ;)
It will take me a very long time to reach your level as I have too many projects under my belt.
I'm really only interested in learning about pattern making and not creating various patterns or using for a business.
As much as I like using computers in a creative way, they have a hard time replacing the beautiful tactile feeling of working with paper and pencil. It's very rewarding and almost "zen." A perfect balance of left and right brain.
If I may, I would like to offer a few more computer tips. Of course, I don't know your level of computer familiarity.
1. Windows or Mac, both are equal theses days in what they can do and in their frustration. However, Macs are superior in the Graphics world, very intuitive. CAD is better on Windows.
2. Save separate copies of your working file often. And change the file name each time, i.e., file_01.jpg to file_02.jpg. If your file should become corrupted, you'll have various versions to fall back on without losing all your work.
3. Back-up all your created-working files on a separate hard drive or zip not connected to your computer and to a cloud storage site, i.e., Google, icloud, Onedrive, etc.
Short story: I know of someone who works with passion, with immense knowledge, in a field not unlike the "the fashion industry," "violin making," or any such endeavor where the collected knowledge is kept hidden from one to another. I'm sure this is a holdover from the days of medieval European guilds. This person was writing an instruction book and was almost finished. They did not make backups to separate drives, their computer was hacked with ransomware and all was lost. Obviously they were deflated over this and have made no attempt to restart the project. It is a terrible loss to lose this immense knowledge. The End.
Re: Valentina and Seamly2D.
I think Seamly2D is a non-functioning site these days, as I cannot get any links to work on it's main page and it points to using Valentina.
I like what the person behind Seamly2D is doing in similar fields. Seams to be a very forward, progressive thinking person. Yaaaaaa!
Opps ! Looks like there are a couple of sites to get Seamly2D and I saw below that Terri (thanks) listed a site . So it is available, but on my Windows computer it only works with a 64 bit operating system. Tried it first on a 32 bit and it wouldn't load.
I received a notice from Valentina that there is a manual in English in various formats for 20 euros.
They have a private group Facebook page available.
They have their own YouTube videos here: https://www.youtube.com/c/ValentinaProjectTutorials/featured (https://www.youtube.com/c/ValentinaProjectTutorials/featured)
They are also available on their Facebook group page, under the media tab.
Unfortunately there is no dialogue. I suggest turning the video playback speed down to make it easier to see whats going on.
And I also recommend opening up a file that can be trashed. Open it and click on all the various tools and features even though you don't understand what they do, just go through them and see what happens. Then there's no worry of destroying a good file.
Forgot to add, they have a very good wiki that lists all the tools, what they do and how to use them. https://valentinawiki.miraheze.org/wiki/Tools_in_Valentina#Point_at_distance_and_angle (https://valentinawiki.miraheze.org/wiki/Tools_in_Valentina#Point_at_distance_and_angle)
Again, cheers
Terri, sorry for the misunderstanding.
I did not ask you how to draft patterns, but suggestions on how I could learn to use the software.
Thanks again.
Andrea
QuoteTerri, sorry for the misunderstanding.
I did not ask you how to draft patterns, but suggestions on how I could learn to use the software.
Thanks again.
Andrea
My apologies!
I think the youtube channel is really helpful, although it is silent.
There is a one hour video of a tailor making a trousers pattern, also helpful to watch was minimalist machinist on you tube.
Some videos are people who dont know patternmaking well, but know how to use software, others are the opposite.
I believe I found a user manual for Seamly 2D https://wiki.seamly.net/wiki/Main_Page (https://wiki.seamly.net/wiki/Main_Page)and there is a seamly forum that is runninghttps://forum.seamly.net/ (https://forum.seamly.net/) you can join and look through all the questions and answers there. They are very helpful.
Other than that I have no easy answer.
I just keep trying.
I also made tests by making squares and different shape and trying to use the tools to see what each of them did.
It does get easier. I still have much to learn.
Some aspects of the tools I prefer to use by eye (drawing curves) rather than use settings to control them- and that is because right now, its too much effort to understand mathematiclly how to set a curve when making it by my eye is fine.
Thank you very much, Terri.
I saw that on the web there are more things about Seamly then about Valentina.
I am at the very beginning and I also start to design squares.
It will be a long way !!!
Thanks again and keep in touch !
Andrea
I think these programs are at the doorstep of pattern making dominance.
I would like to list them here to help others discover and try them out. I have no affiliation or connection to either one.
I was able to download Seamly2D and have it opened here. This is the default way it opened, with it's measuring app, SeamlyMe, in the background.
I tried opening the program on my 32-bit Windows operating system, but it would not. I then tried it on a 64-bit Windows operating system and that was successful.
(https://i.postimg.cc/JGDjHBft/2021-01-29.png) (https://postimg.cc/JGDjHBft)
Here next is the program Valentina as it opens, with it's measuring app in the foreground. This is also installed on a 64-bit OS.
(https://i.postimg.cc/wRdY5NWH/2021-01-29-1.png) (https://postimg.cc/wRdY5NWH)
Very good progress, Terri! Congratulations! You will see you will be fixed by it.
lg
posaune
I started working with Valentina and created the back piece for a jacket using the Rundschau Cutting System (1964ed).
I then switched to Seamly2d and worked my way through it from start to finish.
They seem similar, although I've spent only a couple of days working with them.
If you get stuck with a problem, I recommend using the search in their forum page.
(https://i.postimg.cc/G8yjxv0X/2021-01-31.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G8yjxv0X)
I am going to try to download seamly2d again.
Not sure why my imac didnt want to open it previously.
Quote from: TTailor on February 02, 2021, 04:01:29 AM
I am going to try to download seamly2d again.
Not sure why my imac didnt want to open it previously.
Terri, I'm sure there are folks on the Seamly forum page that could help with your install if there is a problem.
I know I've seen a few posts there asking about MacOS problems.
You should have an "install log" that will list the insult to the OS.
Of the many hats I've worn in life, one as a Graphics Design/Desktop Publishing dude, I learned the "dual-monitor" setup is the way to go and never looked back.
I would always drag all my toolbars off the working screen.
I'm happy to see that with Seamly2D you can do so, and increase your working size board.
Here's a pic to see. In case folks didn't know.
(https://i.postimg.cc/DS7jV1zS/2021-02-01.png) (https://postimg.cc/DS7jV1zS)
I am trying to download Seamly2d but I get an error page, says the download site does not exist. What am I doing wrong??
G
Quote from: Schneiderfrei on February 02, 2021, 10:09:57 AM
I am trying to download Seamly2d but I get an error page, says the download site does not exist. What am I doing wrong??
G
Yes, there are some problems with the links on the main webpage, I think it's being remodeled.
Here is the page where I got it.
https://github.com/FashionFreedom/Seamly2D/releases
Quotere the opposite.
I believe I found a user manual for Seamly 2D https://wiki.seamly.net/wiki/Main_Pageand there is a seamly forum that is running https://forum.seamly.net/
you can join and look through all the questions and answers there. They are very helpful.
Try the link to the forum, and i believe at the top of the page there is a link to the current release of the software.
It seams that the website is under construction?
Thank you so much Terri. With all this discussion, I thought it would be time to have a look. :)
G
Here are my updated efforts so far. Next I'm going to tackle a sleeve.
(https://i.postimg.cc/7J3G4cLT/CO-sport-jacket-09-1.png) (https://postimg.cc/7J3G4cLT)
(https://i.postimg.cc/SnN20gbJ/CO-sport-jacket-09-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SnN20gbJ)
Have you made alterations to the draft for your figure? Or is this just the basic draft in your size?
it seems we have opposite but complimentary skills after reading your intro on Seamly2D
I was able to upgrade my OS, and hopefully, I will be able to switch from Valentina to Seamly shortly.
Quote from: TTailor on February 10, 2021, 03:48:57 AM
Have you made alterations to the draft for your figure? Or is this just the basic draft in your size?
Hi, just the basic draft. I didn't want to do too much, but just learn the software. I still have lots of tools to learn.
For me it was fairly easy to input the drawing but it takes some time understanding how Seamly2D computes it and then to manipulate the various data boxes to get a finished pattern. It's pretty cool !
I think Seamly2D would be very good for your work in the theatrical costume cutter/tailor world. Of course I know nothing about it, but it looks like many of the costumes share a basic layout. I think it would be easy to print out a basic pattern to the actors measurements and then hand draw any changes or details the art director wants.
Bumping this to see how people are doing with the software, and to find out the most creative way printing has been solved.
Oh the printing issues.
I recognize the amount of work that has gone into this program, and most of the tools that I found less intuitive at first have been workable.
Setting up a layout has been painful and seems so difficult compared to the rest of the program.
What I would love to see, is this:
Drag and drop your pattern pieces onto an empty field based on the paper size you want to print on.
For A4 sized paper it should come up with a tiled set of pages.
Drag and drop, rotate options to place your pattern pieces onto the paper field.
At the layout point last week, I had to ask for help from the forum. Help was quickly offered and I was able to print out a child,s bodice with little waste, but up til that point, i felt like tearing my hair out.
Otherwise, I am getting used to the process, and find it interesting to be able to use.
Is that not all fantastic? I like drafting patterns with computers.
In my program I can do me a cutting layout easily. I can move and rotate the pattern around and I can see how much fabric is used. I scale the cutting layout down and print it inside a pattern piece. So have it handy when needed. This is nearly impossible when drafting by hand.
lg
posaune
No doubt computers increase speed, precision, and repeatability. Labour hours are real costs. Mistakes eat margins. And I remain concerned the basic skill sets suffer with the universal rollout of gizmos and fewer learning 'da old ways'. Pencils work even in blackouts.
Truth be told I haven;t played with this package at all since I need more CAD like I need more shears. However, it looks very useful for the sector it's for. Plotting full scale cost effectively is the sticker for me.
For cheap 3D, there's a package called RHINO. I'm NOT suggesting anyone get it foe their day to day shops; learn pencils and watercolors before gizmo reliance. But, it's interesting on the bottom end of surfacing tech. Me, I've a box of German slide rules on the way so I can try to duplicate Russian pattern formulas, to keep the grey matter atrophy in check.
Just an update on my progress with computer drafting.
I really like using it, the more time I spend playing around the better I get with it.
I don't know if I would naturally use it yet for a project in production, but I have a research project in mind that I think will make use of it. So I am writing up a grant proposal. Fingers crossed!
It's keeping me occupied with learning something new yet since it is based on my already acquired knowledge, it feels familiar and is satisfying.
I think I will soon be at the point of trying out some printing, but I dont want to print at home right now.
I would like to print on a plotter, so I will be using the local copyshop. That could get expensive though.
I am thinking about experimenting with exporting the files into inkscape, maybe trying to produce a set of patterns in a three size grade, so lots still to learn and lots of trial and error perhaps in front of me.
If anyone has advice with using inkscape in conjunction with Seamly2D, i would like to hear about it.
Cheers
Oh I am so glad you like it! I wish you much progress and joy with the program and hope you will master the grading too soon.
lg
posaune