Hello all-
As someone who is still learning the trade, this forum has really been a great source of information for me. I had a question about a coat that I'm currently making. There is some puckering around the front edges that I thought I could shrink away as I did the ironwork, and it did shortly, but after working for a few hours, it came back. I'm confused as to what the problem is--I'm thinking that maybe I stitched the edge tape too tight and it was more than could be shrunk away? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
(https://i.postimg.cc/GTyB4c3y/IMG-5421.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/GTyB4c3y)
I´m sure you know that you always should preshrink the edgetape before attaching it.
But I don´t think it is necessarly the edge tape, because the edge of the lapel is completely clean, no creasing.
How does the front look inside? Is it also puckering?
If not, I think probably the lapel piece is a tad too short and makes the outer fabric and haircloth pucker. Did you stretch the inner edge (where the lining gets sewn to) of the lapel piece before attaching it?
Ahh that must be it then. The inside is completely clean. Maybe I'm misremembering what I read or perhaps I'm not completely understanding your comment-- I shrunk away fullness in the facing where the lining gets attached. The cloth I'm using, despite being 100% virgin wool, doesn't seem to take to shrinking and stretching the way I thought it would. Maybe I'm being too gentle on it? Thanks for the help!
The lapel facing is the outer layer at the lapel fold. This eats up length. To compensate you have to stretch (!) the inner edge of the facing. For fabrics that are not stretchable by iron you even should slash an pivot the facing pattern after you´d copied it from the front pattern to achieve the needed length.
Why did you shrink the facing? Did your pattern call for it?
That makes total sense.
I was watching a series on youtube and it looked to me like the tailor had added the fullness into the pattern and then it was shrunk away later.
Coat finished. It seems that after pressing for the final time, any wrinkles or puckering press out but then after a day or so seem to reappear. Still not sure if it was the tape or the facing piece. Other coats I've made don't have this problem and I usually don't stretch the facing...I'm thinking maybe that the edge tape was tighter than it should have been. I've also heard that linen edge tape has a tendency to make these waves in the front edge unlike bias lining. Any other thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
(https://i.postimg.cc/dD8cFVmt/IMG-5470.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dD8cFVmt)
We always use cotton India tape to tape our edges and have not found it to be a problem
You must wash it in hot water and dry it to preshrink it.
It may be that it has been applied to tightly, or, there was a problem when the canvas was first put in.
The only real way to fix it, would have been to release the facing, the tape and canvas, and put it on a stand to see which part is causing the issue. It means going backwards, yes.
I don,p't know if you are in the habit of checking your work on the stand as you go, but I always recommend that to beginner and experienced tailors.
We work on our tables or our laps, and are constantly looking at the pieces horizontally but they become vertical when worn. Problems with tension, canvas installation, etc are much easier to see this way. Gravity and the way the light falls on the garment will show any issues before they become permanent problems.
One more thought regarding using linen tape or india tape on curved edges.
When installing a non bias to a curved line, take great care that the outer edge of the tape lays easy along the curved edge. This will mean that the inner edge of the tape will have a little bit of excess as it travels a shorted distance around the curve.
Considering myself a dressmaker at best (I cut my first and last men's coat 30 some years ago...), I have never used any non-bias tape on curved edges. I do remember how tape was practically boiled and dried before being used in tailoring.
Quote from: Hendrick on October 21, 2020, 07:48:52 AM
Considering myself a dressmaker at best (I cut my first and last men's coat 30 some years ago...), I have never used any non-bias tape on curved edges. I do remember how tape was practically boiled and dried before being used in tailoring.
Its interesting that a technique used widely in some places is totally not the normal in others!
I always taped my roll line first, then padstitched. Imagine my shock to see it done the other way! And not using india tape! Controlling the roll line with a wide piece of lining!🤔😮
In the "ABC des Schneiderhandwerk" which is from the thirties, it is practice to cut the inside edge of the linen tape at near 1 cm intervals around curves. The cut distance I am referring to is for the arm scye of a waist coat. If it were me, doing the front edge of the jacket, it might be 2 cm to 3 cm between cuts, depending on the curve.
We where thaught to use the selvage of lining. preferably that of sleevelining and as Terry said: be carefull with the tension.
Bias tape, you first have to make it wet and then iron it so it looses its stretching. Ironing it dead, as we call it.
Philipdep you did a nice job matching the checks and the lounge coats looks quite good. But may I point out some details to achieve a bit more sophisticated look? When using different silk for the lapel buttonhole be sure to choose a contrasting color or use the same as for the other buttonholes. Otherwise it looks like you ran out of the right silk.
I would choose a darker button. Your´s is quite light and it pops out. The button will get all the attention istead of your tailoring work.
There is also a rule for placing darts and seams in checks: Prominent vertical stripes should be kept intact. You should avoid to make a stripe vanish completely and interrupt it with the vertical front dart. Therefore in your fabric it would be better to place the dart in the middle between two doublestripes instead of onto it. Sometimes the dart must be shifted a bit to achieve this goal. Same principle is valid for the placement of the center back seam.
Quick question if I may:
Had to look up "India Tape" having never heard of/seen it before. I've only ever used cotton twill tape or selvedges.
Would India tape have less bulk for lighter weight fabrics even after pre-shrinking? Any other upside?
I've never used bias tape on a front edge. Seems a bit counter intuitive regarding stability.
Inquiring minds.....and all that....:)
Thank you for all your posts, very interesting...
I use bias sleeve lining stripe. Stretching it a bit, so it still has a small stretching reserve. You need that reserve for the end ironing. I also experienced with glue tape, it never really worked because there was no stretching reserve for the end ironing. The whole edge was completely nailed together, which was no good.
Quote from: spookietoo on October 22, 2020, 05:12:43 AM
Quick question if I may:
Had to look up "India Tape" having never heard of/seen it before. I've only ever used cotton twill tape or selvedges.
Would India tape have less bulk for lighter weight fabrics even after pre-shrinking? Any other upside?
I've never used bias tape on a front edge. Seems a bit counter intuitive regarding stability.
Inquiring minds.....and all that....:)
Twill tape is thicker and too bulky to put in an edge. If I didn't have tape, I would probably use a lining selvedge or a lining cut on bias. Something thin.
India tape is a straight woven flat cotton tape, quite thin, and it comes in a couple of different widths.
Also called tailor's tape. I think it is also used in bookbinding and upholstery.
Thank you all so much for the replies! I haven't had any formal training; really just reading books, this forum, and Rory Duffy's YouTube series, so I appreciate and welcome any comments. The Lining Company sells 7/8" bias lining that I have seen other tailors use for the edge of their coats and it creates quite a nice look. I'm sure it's much easier to pick stitch the edge too... I find it so unpleasant to have to stitch through the linen edge tape, so I'm exited to try the bias lining. I've been stabilizing my roll line with 1.5" wide ribbons of lining cut on the bias, but I'm not sure if the bias cut is helping or harming, my thought was that stretching it would pull the fronts onto the body, but still allow for a little give--maybe this is wrong though?
Quote from: peterle on October 21, 2020, 07:40:45 PM
Philipdep you did a nice job matching the checks and the lounge coats looks quite good. But may I point out some details to achieve a bit more sophisticated look? When using different silk for the lapel buttonhole be sure to choose a contrasting color or use the same as for the other buttonholes. Otherwise it looks like you ran out of the right silk.
I would choose a darker button. Your´s is quite light and it pops out. The button will get all the attention istead of your tailoring work.
There is also a rule for placing darts and seams in checks: Prominent vertical stripes should be kept intact. You should avoid to make a stripe vanish completely and interrupt it with the vertical front dart. Therefore in your fabric it would be better to place the dart in the middle between two doublestripes instead of onto it. Sometimes the dart must be shifted a bit to achieve this goal. Same principle is valid for the placement of the center back seam.
Thank you! These are the things I really like to know.
Oh, I see. 1,5" for the roll line tape is quite wide for my taste and tradition. The widest I use is about 1,5cm.
The purpose of this tape is to avoid any stretching in the roll line (wich is on the bias and therefore stretches endlessly). Usually the tape is also cut a tad shorter than the roll line measurement so it also pulls the roll line together. This creates a kind of dart wich helps to create and concentrate the volume for the chest. Thus it also helps to reduce a gaping roll line. I´m not sure a bias cut tape works for this purpose.
Probably a stretched roll line causes the strange wobbling area above the buttonhole I wonder about.
Twill tape is thicker and too bulky to put in an edge. If I didn't have tape, I would probably use a lining selvedge or a lining cut on bias. Something thin.
India tape is a straight woven flat cotton tape, quite thin, and it comes in a couple of different widths.
Also called tailor's tape. I think it is also used in bookbinding and upholstery.
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Terri:
Thank you!
My initial introduction to tailoring was basically nothing more than the mechanics of it all and twill tape was specified. I completed the course, took my "A", clipped the buttons off (have yet to use them) and tossed the coat. Dreadful, bulky, ill-fitting thing it was.
These tiny nuances learned here and on the old C&T have made a huge difference. I've used selvedges since reading of the practice, thinner, easier to source and basically "free".
Sourcing India Tape online seems a bit difficult at the moment, but the one thing we have plenty of locally is upholstery supply sources. I'll keep a look out.
Thanks again!
Quote from: peterle on October 23, 2020, 09:01:35 PM
Oh, I see. 1,5" for the roll line tape is quite wide for my taste and tradition. The widest I use is about 1,5cm.
The purpose of this tape is to avoid any stretching in the roll line (wich is on the bias and therefore stretches endlessly). Usually the tape is also cut a tad shorter than the roll line measurement so it also pulls the roll line together. This creates a kind of dart wich helps to create and concentrate the volume for the chest. Thus it also helps to reduce a gaping roll line. I´m not sure a bias cut tape works for this purpose.
Probably a stretched roll line causes the strange wobbling area above the buttonhole I wonder about.
Ahh, that must be it then! Although that wobbling at the top button doesn't happen when it's on the wearer (at least to that extent). It makes total sense that the roll line shouldn't stretch and therefore whatever tape is on the roll line should be straight grain. My thinking behind using the bias cut tape for the roll line is that I could stretch it over the roll line and so it would pull the roll line together, but I think the stretch of the bias makes it too flimsy, and I can get better structure from the straight grain lining. I like the 1.5" lining because I can cover the edge of the hair canvas and domette at the roll line and get a nice, smooth transition into the lapel, but it seems like many different tailors have different preferences!
Here's a better picture on the wearer.
(https://i.postimg.cc/K1jRMwHp/IMG-5524.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/K1jRMwHp)