Hello everyone, I hope you are all doing well.
I just finished my latest trouser today and wanted to share it. I made the shirt aswel.
charcoal brown wool flannel. I think I paid 20 euro per meter, really light weight, about 170 g m2. I wish I could find something heavier at a affordable price in the Netherlands. This cloths won't hold ironwork shape very nicely unfortunately. Then again, not sure how a proper cloth would hold its shape.
Single forward pleat (2 inch) with a fob pocket, 12 inch rise with double welt front pockets (I love these), and 2 inch turnups.
I had never made a fob pocket before so this was a fun new thing to learn and figure out.
Pics aren't too great but its what I have for now.
(https://i.postimg.cc/ygNGNRw1/SAM-0001.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ygNGNRw1)
(https://i.postimg.cc/6421rXWF/SAM-0002.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/6421rXWF)
(https://i.postimg.cc/z36QJVpN/SAM-0004.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/z36QJVpN)
Very nice, good to see forward pleats as well. Very classic. Any chance of better pictures.
Looks like good work from the last picture. Have you gone for German-style vertical jetted pockets? I've gone over to these for a lot of trousers now. It's easier to get a clean inside finish on the pocket bag with these and the tops of the side seams are left untouched for easier closing.
What's the draft?
I don't know where you are in NL, but I get all-wool flannel cheaper than €20 from the cloth markets. Usually €8-10. Always sure to take a lighter along to do a surreptitious burn test to make sure! I only buy expensive cloth (usually from England or Italy) when the customer is discerning and I know I'll get a good return.
Hi Kiem,
They look good, classic design and should be comfortable as well.
I live in Hilversum, pretty much right the centre of The Netherlands.
Most of my fabrics were bought online, some from Germany, some from online-shops in the NL.
The draft is from The modern Tailor outfitter and Clothier, with a small alteration giving me a little more room in the front fly so the pleats don't gape, and of course drafted for a forward pleat rather than a plain top.
I straightened the seat angle (on the trouser, not the pattern) quite a bit to make the seat fit more neatly, I think I might need to straighten it a bit more.
(https://i.postimg.cc/LYTJ3p33/Schermafbeelding-2020-03-15-om-12-52-57.png) (https://postimg.cc/LYTJ3p33)
(https://i.postimg.cc/TKgYcxR5/pattern.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TKgYcxR5)
(https://i.postimg.cc/cr5XcqDW/ironwork.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cr5XcqDW)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Mn2jwdHR/20200315-121002.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Mn2jwdHR)
(https://i.postimg.cc/cvB6SWVy/20200315-121019.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cvB6SWVy)
(https://i.postimg.cc/zVt8SBZf/20200315-120427.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zVt8SBZf)
(https://i.postimg.cc/hXd6zPK6/20200315-120441.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hXd6zPK6)
(https://i.postimg.cc/sBKc1tGb/20200315-120546.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sBKc1tGb)
(https://i.postimg.cc/rRRCnsZL/20200315-120349.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rRRCnsZL)
(https://i.postimg.cc/YjTx4Nj2/20200315-120417.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YjTx4Nj2)
This is a trouser + waistcoat I made before. Bit heavier fabric, same pattern as the other trouser but slightly lower rise, about 11 3/4 inch.
Continuous waistband. The seat angle on this trouser is a bit more crooked than the other and needs some changes.
The dart on the waistcoat goes through the pocket as is usually done on coats (belly cut dart?). No particular reason other than wanting to try and find out how that works.
For the waistcoat I used Mansie Wauch's draft.
(https://i.postimg.cc/87LNvVGK/ironwork.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/87LNvVGK)
(https://i.postimg.cc/bDwh4DtW/20200315-123114.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bDwh4DtW)
(https://i.postimg.cc/BjfG4wFx/20200315-123056.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BjfG4wFx)
(https://i.postimg.cc/mhcxMGNY/20200315-122553.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mhcxMGNY)
(https://i.postimg.cc/MnSghfk5/20200315-122300.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MnSghfk5)
(https://i.postimg.cc/9RKn1rtG/20200315-122313.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9RKn1rtG)
(https://i.postimg.cc/4mC09H3G/20200315-122341.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4mC09H3G)
(https://i.postimg.cc/hXc3CFx3/20200315-122350.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hXc3CFx3)
(https://i.postimg.cc/jww8WR0C/waistcoat.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jww8WR0C)
(https://i.postimg.cc/dLxjyz6y/20200315-122730.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dLxjyz6y)
Any feedback is welcome! I have been figuring all this out myself with the help of whatever I can find on the internet.
There is one thing I notice, and it's because I had the same problem initially with button-fly trousers: drag lines from the fly to the left hip. I think for me it was slight mismatching of holes/buttons on the fly, but perhaps also an imbalance between the room given to the fly compared to the waist. Also heavy machine stitching of layers on the fly.
Quote from: Henry Hall on March 16, 2020, 12:44:56 AM
There is one thing I notice, and it's because I had the same problem initially with button-fly trousers: drag lines from the fly to the left hip. I think for me it was slight mismatching of holes/buttons on the fly, but perhaps also an imbalance between the room given to the fly compared to the waist. Also heavy machine stitching of layers on the fly.
Yeah they are quite noticeable. I am not sure why this is happening and I have not really looked into this before. I am very new to the more advanced fitting things.
It might very well be the buttons being slightly off. Is a perfect flat look possible in this area? I don't really have much reference points other than pictures I can find on the internet.
The fly is sewn in by hand using silk thread and a prick stitch.
Can you explain what you mean with the imbalance between room given to the fly compared to the waist?
Maybe its to do with the way I cut the dress, which I do differently than the draft suggests.
They look very nice! My compliments. I to love these forward pleats.
What could have happened with your fly is that the part with the buttonholes is finished with diagonal tape. This sometimes pulls.
I was making these kind of trousers as well with the help of vervaardiging van broek en vest written by T Leever and TH Ammerlaan.
And they warn tailors that this can happen, there advice is a flat seam. I myself prefer taping aswell.
(https://i.postimg.cc/N2X8TC0r/Schermafbeelding-2020-03-15-om-16-29-18.png) (https://postimg.cc/N2X8TC0r)
Where did you get the book De Vervaardiging van Broek en Vest?
The waiscoat fits really good and You did a nice job when matching the stripes in the chest pocket. The classical method to do a vertical chest dart in a striped pattern is to position the dart center line centered between two pinstripes. It should be avoided to cut off a pinstripe at the top of the dart. Stripes are tricky. When you carry the dart through to the lower edge, the stripes between the pocket end and the side seam would´nt be interupted.
For the trousers: I think the diagonal creases at the front are caused by a shifted and thus pulling lining when you attached the buttonhole stand. You can cut the lining a bit bigger than the fabric to aviod pulling. And when you sew the forward pleat, don´t catch the lining. Fold it by itself.
Generally for parts that fold inwards it also helps to give the inner edge a nice stretch with the iron to avoid any pulling.
I also think your back darts are a bit too long and too wide. They should end a bit above the widest part of the butt. On the striped trousers I can see they are more than 3 stripes wide. Generally when you have to remove more than 3-3,5cm in the back dart you should remove the rest with a smaller second dart between the first dart and the side seam.
How did you alter your pattern for the forward pleat?
Thank you all for the comments and input, very much appreciated!
Thanks for the insight on the waistcoat dart!
My trouser dart is 3 cm wide and 11,5 cm long, It did some comparing to the draft and it seems to be a bit on the long side. Looks to be closer to 9,5 / 10 cm for 12" rise.
I think I might need to move the dart towards the centre back. My butt has flat sides and I think the dart might make more sense on the rounder part of my butt.
I was never able to figure out where to place the back dart and why to place them there, any insight anyone can give me??
As for length, this is also determined by shape of the butt?
On the pinstripe trouser, the dart runs parallel in the waistband area, maybe thats why It seems to be very wide. It really is 3 cm's wide max.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kBcHS4LY/back-dart1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kBcHS4LY)
(https://i.postimg.cc/9zjVtDNc/back-dart2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9zjVtDNc)
(https://i.postimg.cc/qzJTS9TY/back-dart3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qzJTS9TY)
I made some drawings trying to explain how I altered the pattern for a forward pleat. I hope they make sense.
I keep my pleats parallel at the waistband. Length of the pleat is about halfway between the crotch and knee line.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Z9kDtdNR/forwardpleat-pattern1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Z9kDtdNR)
(https://i.postimg.cc/c6D91j3P/forwardpleat-pattern2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/c6D91j3P)
(https://i.postimg.cc/jWQcpkKg/forwardpleat-pattern3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jWQcpkKg)
As for the creases, I need to look into this. If I pull the buttonhole part of the trouser up slightly the creases disappear for the most part. Might be button misplacement.
On the other hand it might be the lining pulling as you mention.
Any way of avoiding this in the future? Maybe basting the button fly on including buttons to do a fitting?
As for the linings. Can you explain to me how the lining would be added to the foreparts?
I cut out my foreparts, baste on the lining, both through the crease line and along the side seams. Then I press the crease line and close the pleat by hand, sewing the cloth and lining together.
Would you add the lining AFTER closing and sewing the pleats?
Excuse all the questions, I find it rather hard to learn through words as I am so used to reverse engineer pictures and videos.
test it again with the buttons undone.
@ Henry Hall. It was a present from my teacher. It's a photocopy. Maybe you can find it somewhere on the internet. Boekwinkeltje.nl sometimes has nice things.
Ok I see. That´s more or less what I thought you´ve done. The right method to incorporate the crease is much simpler but more reliyable:
After drafting the plain trouser slash your top trouser pattern along the center line from the waist to the knee line (for wider trousers to the hemline). Then slash the knee line towards the seams but keep pivot points uncut at the seamlines. Now pivot this parts evenly so the gap at the waistline is as wide as you want your pleat to be (usually 3cm. Your 2" are very wide) (a modern trouser draft would have a front dart of 2cm so you would open the gap only for the missing 1cm). Fix it by glueing a strip of paper under the gap. Make the paper protrude a little at the waistline. Now fold the pleat close all the way down to the knee. With your tracing wheel copy the waistline to the (tripled) paper.
The dart looked bigger in the first pics. 3cm is ok. Length and form depends on the form of the individual body in this area and the trouser model. As a rule of thumb it must end a bit above the widest part of the butt and is located more or less centered between side seam and back seam. You can play with it when fitting. You could also consider wether it is better in a striped fabric to make the dart center line parallel to the stripes.
Once again, thanks for all your input and extra eyes, I really makes a difference to me.
The Eyelet and the button placement were off. I have resew the buttons and the eyelet and this gives a slight improvement.
I can definitely see that there is some twisting going on though.
I could try and cheat and give the inside of the pleat a bit of a stretch, but the proper way to solve this would be to take out the buttonhole part and resew it with no twisting this time :D Something to be aware of the next time around.
Before and After side by side. Slight improvement noticeable. Sry for the bad quality picture.
(https://i.postimg.cc/XpLhFPFK/Schermafbeelding-2020-03-17-om-19-13-27.png) (https://postimg.cc/XpLhFPFK)
So laying out the pleats rather like this?
Left to right
1st is flat front pattern
2nd is flatfront spread open, and "retraced" to make new pattern
3rd is pleat folded
4th is pattern closed
Is this the correct way?
Does this work the same for forward and reverse pleats?
And which line becomes the new grain line? original centre line or redraw (depending on forward of reverse pleat) from the new waistline to the hem down in a straight line?
(https://i.postimg.cc/V5XfnzDx/Schermafbeelding-2020-03-17-om-19-22-31.png) (https://postimg.cc/V5XfnzDx)
Yes, this is the correct way. Just to make it clear, you use the pattern with the fold opened. the closing is just for copying the waistline.
It works for forward and backwards pleats. (Waistline will change when you do a backwards pleat).
The new centerline will be a straight line from the center hem point to the point on the waistline you want to lie on top ( i.e. the point nearer to the side seam for a forward pleat)
Quote from: peterle on March 18, 2020, 06:44:20 AM
Yes, this is the correct way. Just to make it clear, you use the pattern with the fold opened. the closing is just for copying the waistline.
It works for forward and backwards pleats. (Waistline will change when you do a backwards pleat).
The new centerline will be a straight line from the center hem point to the point on the waistline you want to lie on top ( i.e. the point nearer to the side seam for a forward pleat)
Perfect, that makes sense. Thanks you!
1 last question, I am working on a flat front pattern and altering the forepart for the correct way of adding a pleat (as described earlier in this thread).
I am curious about the crease line being off centre at the knee line. In the case of my pattern it runs out about 1/2" off centre.
Is it suppose to stay that way or are there any alterations made to that?
I cannot make sense of this.
Anyone can shed some light on this matter?
When you need a dead straight crease line (for striped materialsand fixed crease) just use the old center line from hem to waist.
I recommend to use a more modern pattern wich includes a front dart. The adaption to a front crease will then be less massive because you just have to add the missing amount to get the 3cm. It also will not have an inwards slanted fly line like your pattern wich usually is just for pronounced belly figures.
Anywhere I can find/purchase draft instructions for a modern trouser with the front dart?
this one even has a front crease:
https://www.die-gewand-sammlung.at/produkt/grundschnitt-hose-anleitung/ (https://www.die-gewand-sammlung.at/produkt/grundschnitt-hose-anleitung/)
There's also this: https://www.muellerundsohn.com/shop/haka-schnittkonstruktionen-hosen/ It's a very practical book wich contains all possible sorts of trousers.
Quote from: peterle on March 31, 2020, 04:30:06 AM
this one even has a front crease:
https://www.die-gewand-sammlung.at/produkt/grundschnitt-hose-anleitung/ (https://www.die-gewand-sammlung.at/produkt/grundschnitt-hose-anleitung/)
I am going to bring this over to a new thread so we can discuss this draft.😀
Quote from: peterle on March 31, 2020, 04:30:06 AM
this one even has a front crease:
https://www.die-gewand-sammlung.at/produkt/grundschnitt-hose-anleitung/ (https://www.die-gewand-sammlung.at/produkt/grundschnitt-hose-anleitung/)
I have actually used this draft before I started using the english draft I posted earlier in this thread. I might give this another look.
I don't see a front dart though?!? only a pleat? Or am I mistaken the pleat for a dart...
Also I found this today.
https://www.instagram.com/tv/B-UoNSWJJ_Q/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
This video shows the cutting of a 3 piece suit by Steven Hitchcock.
But it also shows the layout of the creaseline for a forward pleated trouser. It clearly shows the off centre crease line on a pinstripe trouser which was mentioned earlier.
I would like to see how the pockets on the trousers are made.
I have always put the crease on a solid striped line. I dont know about wearing out the cloth on the stripe with pressing. I think its an old tailors tale.
His shears need some adjusting to me.
Quote from: Kiem on April 02, 2020, 05:52:27 AM
Quote from: peterle on March 31, 2020, 04:30:06 AM
this one even has a front crease:
https://www.die-gewand-sammlung.at/produkt/grundschnitt-hose-anleitung/ (https://www.die-gewand-sammlung.at/produkt/grundschnitt-hose-anleitung/)
I have actually used this draft before I started using the english draft I posted earlier in this thread. I might give this another look.
I don't see a front dart though?!? only a pleat? Or am I mistaken the pleat for a dart...
Also I found this today.
https://www.instagram.com/tv/B-UoNSWJJ_Q/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
This video shows the cutting of a 3 piece suit by Steven Hitchcock.
But it also shows the layout of the creaseline for a forward pleated trouser. It clearly shows the off centre crease line on a pinstripe trouser which was mentioned earlier.
There is a pleat. is 2 times 1 cm, not much. If you make it a dart, it has to be 0,75 cm on each side of the pleat. It works beautifully i found.
(https://i.postimg.cc/VrmqcVKj/Schermafbeelding-2020-04-02-om-10-06-11.png) (https://postimg.cc/VrmqcVKj)
Like this. Hope it helps
Quote from: pfaff260 on April 02, 2020, 07:07:54 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/VrmqcVKj/Schermafbeelding-2020-04-02-om-10-06-11.png) (https://postimg.cc/VrmqcVKj)
Like this. Hope it helps
sure does, thnx!
Keim- if you'll use the timer on your camera instead of getting a mirror reflection photo, your photos should come out much, much better.
The timer setting on my phone camera is my best fitting aid -hands down.. Its also easy to set a lamp on the floor to help with light if needed.