Bespoke Cutter And Tailor

I'm looking for literature about the hang or the pitch of a sleeve. Anyone a suggestion??
lg
heidi

Greetings Heidi,


I've all the old C&T sleeve pitch stuff on remote computer drives. Would that help or are you looking more for a technical paper?


Best, AL

would be great, Steelmillal. I remember the article from Schneidergott with that little graphic. We discuss in the moment  if you  must rotate the sleeve as whole (means sleeve front pitch and back pitch mark will rotate ergo schoulder point too) or just changing the shoulderpoint and let the pitch as is. I am astonished how different the opinions are.
lg
posaune

I hope this is useful in some way.

Yes, thank you. But as he himself writes, the accurates of the pitches helps the hang of the sleeves. Okay but how do you deal with a low hang?set? sleeve or a high set? hang? sleeve. Do you rotate the pitches? and so the whole sleeve. Or do you just rotate pitch D because it is not so important as is Pitch C? because the sleeve hangs cfrom point C
lg
posaune

These are great quetions that I also struggle with.

I will keep looking.

The question also makes me think of the Neapolitan habit of always rotating the sleeve of a shirt forward 0.5 - 1.0 cm.  I do not really understand why they would do this, but I have tried it out on a couple of recent shirts. It looks good.

G

Questio: Do they rotate the whole sleeve? Or just the shoulder point?
lg
posaune

Posaune, what do you mean with a low/high/ set sleeve? Do you mean a deep or tight armhole?

My interprentation of the sketch of the article is, that the pitches on armhole and sleeve have to lie on the same  horizontal line.

Sorry for late reply with all links but this subject will drive other associate questions. I recall SG's fore, mid, aft pitch graphic, too, but can't find it yet. Racing shutdowns as Ohio/Mich both are shutting easy wifi access down for Wuhan Flu, and typing on phone from computer drives is next to impossible. More when back online or will post from phone when I find pitch gif. or clearer answer...


My take is rotate whole sleeve and match armhole in draft, but must find justification beyond cryptic DZ wisdom of "the fall of the sleeve lays in the cutting". Best, AL


https://web.archive.org/web/20150601195927/www.cutterandtailor.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1376

Diag drags

https://web.archive.org/web/20130310234729/http://www.cutterandtailor.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=58

Match sleeve and armhole

https://web.archive.org/web/20150906224040/http://www.cutterandtailor.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1303

Sleeve Construction

https://web.archive.org/web/20130310234852/http://cutterandtailor.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=116

Armhole, how deep to cut

https://web.archive.org/web/20130311101541/http://www.cutterandtailor.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1855

U-turn the armhole

The other thing I was reading was Ch5 and 6 in Styner's book.

Goodness Steelmillal, you know your way around the wayback machine.  Good on you for these pages.

Hehe Peterle ,
you know that the choose of my words may not be the right terms.
I attach 3 pics from Leibold "Das Schneiderhandwerk"
(https://i.postimg.cc/qN2KrKWy/armel-vor-r-ck.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qN2KrKWy)

here you see how the arm base is looking with a special posture, normal, forward, backwards.

(https://i.postimg.cc/BPWsJjrP/rmelvor-aufrecht.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BPWsJjrP)

these are the alterations to the sleeve . You rotate just the upper crown in the pattern!


(https://i.postimg.cc/6TL5B0Q9/rmel-hoch-tief.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/6TL5B0Q9)

And here is a high and low set in sleeve . Here you rotate the whole sleeve in my opinion on the ready garment.
the effect should be similar.
Is that so???
lg posaune
thanks rescueing that old article, steelmillal. It was lost now the 2. time.   

Glad to help. Read further and Styner says pitch entire sleeve chapter 5 pp 24-26.

Entry #48 in Armhole: how deep do... says same.

From old Pipefitter days, I'd rotate pipe to change angular hang.

IFF upper crown pattern mod were made, with sleeve as usual, and armhole hung nuetral, and sleeve and armhole cross sections were same-same shape match, desired pitch change would follow, like slight dog-leg bend in pipe. Pardon vernacular, but thinking in fluent terms.

Both methods work, one in fitting, one in planning.

There's a thread called "The scheme of construction the sleeves of Torry" that shows this, too, I think. I saw for first time yestersay when posting from laptop, but didn't read twice.

Cheers, AL

I like this image from Schneidergott. It comes from page 2 of Sleeve Construction in the links posted above by Steelmillal.



It shows a trend, I guess due to changing body size and activity, from 1964 to present Germany (Rundschau) and 1950s Italy.

Of course, the issue is more than just pitch, but also the changing of the favoured position.

G

Now I understand Posaune. Even in German the term "slow/ high set in" are at least  ambiguous.

After thinking it over I also think the effects are similar. Both methods want to get the sleeve hem into the right position. But I think the rotating of the sleeve is a bit of a quick and dirty method that probably works with wide sleeves with plenty of ease. A slimmer sleeve needs preciselier matched curves for armhole and crown and therefore a rotating may bring the hem into the right position but will also bring the matched curvelines in disorder. So many side effects. So I think for fitting it is better to focus on the relative position of the crown and the tube part of the sleeve and use the pitches more as a sewing aid for precise setting in.

It assumes the same shape of armhole for all postures?
Do you think the armhole shape or position changes on the body and then the sleeve follows?

If you rotate the existing sleeve to match the hang or the arm, you may need to reshape the sleeve slightly so the curve between sleeve and armhole sit together better.

 I want to include "preciselier" in the next Oxford English Dictionary.

:D

G

English is not my mother´s tounge, so I´m not bound to these narrow limits as you poor native speakers.

Maybe " more precisely" woud have been rightier? ;)

Oh, I did not notice! I knew exactly what was meant. It should have a place in the Oxford book
"Do you think the armhole shape or position changes on the body and then the sleeve follows?"
Yes indeed. If you have a forward stance par ex. the position (lean more into the front towards the shoulder) and the shape is changed (rotated). If you look at the first pic at  the little round drawings they show the shape of the arm"socket"  (my my what is the english word??Precisley) for each posture.
lg
posaune

Righty-oh, that one is even more melodious. :)

I think scye will be better than socket in this case. :)