Bespoke Cutter And Tailor

Here, as promised, are some of the foundation drafts for the Ulster Overcoat - Ulster Mantel. 

There are many variations of the Ulser draft included in Der Zuschnitt fuer die Herren Schneiderei.  The following pages are those in order that precede the Stutzer Draft.  I provide them to give context to the Stutzer and broaden the knowledge for the Ulsters in general.

I haven't put a draft from 2000 as it is a bit too recent and might offend someones copyright notions.

Many thanks!
If I get a chance I will post the Ulster draft that I have.

Hi Schneiderfrei

If you find some spare time could you please go over my attempt at translating this draft? My German knowledge is zero, I did this with the combined help of online traslators and the cutterandtailor forum thread titled "german technical terms". There are some sentences that I just couldn't understand in context.

(https://s4.postimg.org/aqtc767mh/Ulster_draft_english.jpg) (https://pixxxels.org/image/aqtc767mh/)

Here's and editable version of the text:
The back
W-b-L = Start draft by squaring lines from point W.
W-h = Halsloch (neck depth?) = Hs.
h-H = Square up 3cm and draw neck curve.
W-m = 1/3 Rh back scye depth
W-Rh = Rh back scye depth
W-T = Tl back waist length
W-L = Lg
Square lines from Rh, T, and L.
T-T1 = Center back = 1.5cm; draw straight line from m-T1.
R-Rb = Back width (Rückenbreite); Square line.
Rb-r = Side seam = 4cm.
b-a1 = Achselhöhe normal = 1cm; Draw guideline H-a1.
a1-a2 = Achselbreite = 2.5cm, Draw shoulder seam H-a2.
Rb-s = Seitenspitze (Square up?) 1/4 Rh.
s-S = Armloch = 2cm.
r-S1 = Square up 3.5cm
a2-S1 = Armhole curve according to diagram.
r-t = Straight line to waist line.
t-T2 = Extend by 1.5cm.
r-T2 = Draw straight line for side seam.
L1-L2 = Lower length at right angles.

The Front
Continue Chest line, Waistline and bottom line forward.
r-D = Leave enough distance between the front and back part.
D-At = A'durchmesser (scye width) minus 4cm, the amount used in the back panel in (Rb-r).
At- = Square up and down for edge of scye line.
At-Ad = Armlochtiefe = 27.5cm; Square a line.
At-B = Brustbreite (front chest width) = 24.5cm.
H-U = Bauchbreite)front waist width) = 25cm;
e is half way between At and B.
f is halfway between H and U.
f-e = Connect f to e and continue up to find neck point H1 on line squared from Ad.
H1-H2 = Halslochtiefe = Halsspiegel = 8.4cm, Winkellinie mit H2.
H2-H3 = Neck hole width = Halsspiegel + 2.5cm.
H3/B/U = vordere Mitte einzeichnen, von U im rechten Winkel zur Taillenlinie nach unten.
Ad-A1 = Shoulder height = 3cm.
H1-A2 = (shoulder length?) Achselbreite vom Rücken - #?cm übertragen.
At-c = Auxiliary point = 6cm, draw guideline c-A2.
D-S2 = Seitenspitze = 3.5cm same amount as in the back panel.
A2-S2 = Armloch formschön nach vorne und rückwärts.
At- = Armelzeichen = 4cm hochstellen.
H-T3 = Seitennaht = the amount At-D + 1.5cm;
Seitennaht von D über T3 gerade nach unten einzeichnen.
L3- = Jacket length.
H-Ta = Taschentiefe (pocket depth) = 8-9cm; from Ta draw backwards 6cm, then forward 17cm.

At-a = Seitenabnäher (side dart) = 4cm on a right angle.
L4-L5 = Lower bottom line by 2cm.
L5-L6 = Front center = 1.5cm and readjust.
U-L6 = Extend front center by 11-12cm as shown on diagram.
H1-h1 = Fassonbruch (revers breakline) = 2cm; Draw breakline and revers as in the diagram.
Buttonholes and buttons as indicated on the diagram.

Oh, and I've also translated Der Stutzer draft in this sub-forum, but I'll wait for any corrections in this draft and then fix any mistakes in that one.

I will have a look at this for you Ahmed, but give me a few days. :)

Thank you Schneiderfrei. Take your time, I know first hand that translation is such a tedious job. Hopefully it will be easier for you by working from a rough draft rather than starting from scratch.

And here's the sleeve translation. This was easier to translate.

I'll provide a higher res pdf if there are no major mistakes in both translations. The 'pattern preparation' section reads very much like a bad google translation, which of course it is  ;D, but I think you can understand what the instruction is.

(https://s4.postimg.org/oo5j6q2bt/der_ulster_armel_englisch_ja.jpg) (https://pixxxels.org/image/oo5j6q2bt/)

Ahmed, you have done a brave job, and you you have begun at the beginning which is good. 

Much of your translation is quite correct, but there are some terms that you have used which are too literal and not the proper tailoring terms.  This would slow down the use of the draft for people trying to compare the result with an English or American system.  Eg I would use transferred rather than moved for verlegte.

Rather than do an itemised correction, since I am by no means a language educator, I will have to do a parallel translation and put it up too.

ps there area couple of spelling errors.

Thank you for the feedback, I'm glad that it at least makes sense. With regards to the literal translation, that's the unfortunate reality of trying to translate from a language that you don't speak at all, I don't even know why I started this!
I think you mentioned in one of your posts that you have school, so don't feel obligated to start this sooner than you intended.

I'll try to fix the spelling errors, I create these in Adobe Indesign and it doesn't automatically flag spelling errors.

No problems Ahmed,

I love to open these German articles to a wider English audience very much. But my German is not very advanced either.

BTW I have started the translation by getting ready the OCR scans and creating word documents, but it will take a bit longer.

Graham

Do you rework the sketches as well? I think it would be quite usefull for the understanding to translate also the name of the different points in the drafting, because they are abbreviations of their meaning.
example:
W=Wirbelpunkt= 7th Vertebra point. so translation would be V
T = Taille= Waist so translation would be W
Hs = Halsspiegel= back neck width translation would be Nw
L = Länge = Length/Hem/Bottom, translation would be L, H or B

That is one of the ideas I was thinking of, thanks peterle. 

I personally find it difficult to make acceptable changes on the draft images so I mostly leave the actual abbreviations in the German but then you must leave the legend at the beginning.  The truth is Ahmed, you really must leave the preliminary section in because you need it to make sense of the draft in the first place.

The normal and recommended practice is to make a model of the draft using all the measurements provided.  The drafts are so very complex that the possibility of making mistakes is great. Only after you have successfully performed the standard draft in the book and double checked all the measurements and shape, will you then begin to make others based on your own measurements.

Gaham

Hi Graham, I have followed your advice and digitally drafted the pattern in Adobe Illustrator using the original measurements with my translation. I've overlaid my draft (blue line) on top of the original and they match in most areas, the scye is a little off though. Is this what you meant?

You mentioned leaving the preliminary section in, what do you mean? Have I left anything from your scans? I thought the Ulster was the basic draft.

(https://s24.postimg.org/ou5kr6pyp/der_ulster_screenshot_3.jpg) (https://pixxxels.org/image/ou5kr6pyp/)

(https://s24.postimg.org/xqgcv4gkx/der_ulster_screenshot.jpg) (https://pixxxels.org/image/xqgcv4gkx/)

So sorry, I forgot they were in the link version.

Ok here is my effort:





Main Measurements: (Measured over the waistcoat)

Kg Body Height 172 cm

Ow Chest  98/49 cm   

Uw Waist 90/45 cm

Proportional Measurements: (According to the calculations on page 12/13)


Abbr    English   Amount     Formula                                             Ease for Ulster
            
Rh   Back Height   23 cm   = ⅛ Ow + ¼ Tl                                     + 2,5
Tl   Waist Length   44 cm   = ¼ Kg +1                                           +2
Lg   Length         114 cm   = ½ Kg                                                   + 28-30.
At   Armhole Depth   24,5 cm   = Back Height +1.5                                    +3
Rb   Back Width   20,6cm   til 100 = Ow: 2/10 the total Ow + 1;   + 1 allowance
         over 100 = Ow: Base number of 100 Ow = 21
                        and for each centimetre Ow add 1 mm more,   
Ad   Armhole Width   15,3cm   = ⅛  Ow + 3                                                    +4
Hs   Neck Mirror   7,9 cm   =  1/10 of ½ Ow + 3                              + 0,5
B   Chest Width   23,5 cm   =  til 100 Ow: Ow - 1;                                 +1
         101/111 Ow: ¼ Ow - 1,5;    
         over 112 Ow: ¼ Ow - 2,   
Bau   Belly Width   24 cm   = ¼ Uw + 1.5                                           + 1




The Back / Abbildung 488

W-b-L  Squared Baseline for the Back part.

W-h   Neck hole = Neck mirror = 8,4 cm;

h-H = 3 cm Measure up and draw out the neck line.

W-m = ⅓ Back Height,

W-Rh  Back Height = 25,5 cm

W-T Waist Length = 46 cm,

W-L Total length = 114cm;  Square out Rh, T, L fully to the front.

T-T1 Centre Back = 1,5 cm; Middle seam m-T1 Straight down.

R-Rb Back Width = 21,6 cm; Square Rb.

Rb-r transfer the side seam = 4cm.

b-a1 Shoulder Height normal = 1cm; Guideline H-a1.

a1-a2 Shoulder width = 2,5cm, Draw the Shoulder seam H-a2.

Rb-s Side point =¼ Back Height,

s-S Armhole = 2 cm.

r-S1 Side Point = 3,5 cm,

a2-S1 Armhole curve according to the diagram.

r- Square vertically to the waistline.

t-T2 extend = 1,5 cm,

r-T2 Side draw the seam straight down.

L1-L2 Square the Hem.


The Front Part / Abbildung 489

Continue the Chest-, Waistline and Hem Straight forward.

r-D Gap between Back Part and Front Part = Arbitrary.

D-At   measure out Armhole width as calculated, minus 4 cm seam transfer to the back (Rb-r).

At-   Square the front armhole (Av) line above and below.

At-Ad   Armhole depth = 27,5cm; Square to Ad.

At-B   Chest width = 24,5 cm,

H-U   Belly width = 25 cm;
Halve the chest width At-B with e.
Halve the Belly width H-U with f.

f-e Make a guideline above to form neck point, H1.

H1-H2 Neck hole depth = Neck mirror = 8,4 cm,
Square to H2.

H2-H3 Neck hole width = neck mirror + 2,5 cm.

H3/B/U draw the centre front, in a right angle down from U at the waistline.

Ad-A1 Shoulder height normal = 3cm,

H1-A2 transfer the Shoulder width from the back minus ½ cm.

At-c Auxiliary point = 6 cm, guide line c-A2.

D-S2 Side point = 3,5 cm, as for the back.

A2-S2 Make an attractive (smooth) curve for the armhole forwards and back.

At- measure up to Sleeve (pitch) mark = 4 cm.

H-T3 Side seam = the amount At-D 1,5cm allowance; draw in the side seam from D over

T3 straight down.

L3- Transfer the length from the back.

H-Ta Pocket depth = 8 — 9 cm; from Ta back 6 cm, from here forwards 17 cm.

H1-h1 Lapel fold = 2 cm; draw in the fold line and the lapel according to the diagram.
Button hole and button gap according to the Drawing or fashion image.



Preparing the Pattern


Abbildung 490

The front part — Pattern is cut out in a good (smooth) shape, the side dart is cut straight, and is continued into the cut indicated at the pocket.

It seems to me that in the case of the Proportional Measurements, all the "Amount" values are for a regular dinner suit and still require the Ulster ease to be added - except for the Length amount which is correct for the Ulster.

You are right. You go from the calc. proportional values which are used for a coat - fashion style 1960.
In these values are included the s.a. + the ease. If you want an overcoat you have to add more ease. These are called Ulsterzugabe or Zugabe (Paletot, Mantel, Pelz, Raglan a.s.o.).
Par example: Take the Ad = 1/8 Bust +3.5 up to 4 for coat. For an overcoat you add to this Ad + 2.5 (slim Paletot style)  or 4 (Mantel)  or 5 ( ulster loose style).
lg
posaune

Oh thank you posaune,

in the Stutzer draft they explain that quite carefully, but there was no explanation for this one.

Also, I am not completely certain about the function of the two kinds of coat.  When, for example, is a paletot to be used?

LG

G

A Paletot ist a tighter coat with darts. He is more elegant, looks more like a long coat, the waist is more or less pronounced and the fabric is not so heavy- I would think city and evening . The Ulster is made from heavier fabric for winter and has a bigger collar and revers, more sportive.
lg
posaune

Goodness, in hot old Adelaide I have never seen such things.  He he.

G

Quote from: posaune on March 06, 2017, 12:09:12 AM
A Paletot ist a tighter coat with darts. He is more elegant, looks more like a long coat, the waist is more or less pronounced and the fabric is not so heavy- I would think city and evening . The Ulster is made from heavier fabric for winter and has a bigger collar and revers, more sportive.
lg
posaune

Paletot, then, would be used as a top coat by Germans. Whereas, the British (I believe) say it has a certain cut, but not sure if cloth weight has anything to do with it. And over time some garments do evolve and the evolution can be be somewhat different from region to region.

Thanks for the translation Schneiderfrei . I finally understand what seitenspitze means, I searched everywhere for its meaning but I just couldn't find one. I drafted the pattern by guessing it meant 'square up' but thankfully it still worked somehow.  ;D

I have a question about H3/B/U on the forepart, you wrote "from U in a right angle down to the waistline", but isn't U already on the waistline?

From my understanding I translated it as "Draw center front line; below U draw the line towards the hem at a right angle (perpendicular) to the waistline", because none of those lines are at a right angle to the waistline apart from U to L4.

That is a good question: Your translation is correct.

U is definitely on the Tl/waistline and "zur" definitely is supposed to mean "to the".

So I think that is almost certainly a text error.

There are often errors in these drafts, sometimes I suspect they are put there on purpose to confuse non-professionals.  That one is probably just poor editing.

There one nagging memory of a title:


Where zu means at.

I wonder if it should have read:

H3/B/U vordere Mitte einzeichnen, von U im rechten Winkel zur untere Länge nach unten.

G

H3/B/U translates: draw center front line. from U downwards right angled to the waist line. (means the center front is perpendicular to the waistline from U downwards).

This line is also the grainline for the pattern, very important for striped fabric.

Corrections for the sleeve:
The forepart is nicely cut out...

The paper pattern get´s pinched along a vertical line starting at the front of the pocket for about 1-1,5cm at the hem, wich is the same amount as L5-L6. Thus a small belly dart opens itself at the pocket line and the under arm dart opens as well, achieving the two seam allowances necessary. (wich is not right btw, because the SA´s are already included in the underarm dart).

Sleeve width:
armhole width (Ad) of the jacket   +10-10,5cm or
...

Crown height:
armhole width of the jacket  + 5,5 or
1/3 of the jackets scye circumference ( measured 3/4 cm inwards from the scye line and reduced for 4,5cm wich is the SA of the shoulder, the underarm dart and the side seam) +1,5 or
...

D/e/L shifted front seam: 3cm outwards from center front line (wich is D/e/L).
d-d1 cut out height 1,5cm, measure one seam allowance (0,75cm) inwards

D/e/L shifted front seam, 1,5 cm inwards from center front
...
Shifted back seam:(usually the back seam would end in point C, by shifting the upper part of the seam to the underside of the sleeve, it dissapears when worn).

Subject Object preposition  Hmmm

Ha

Quote from: peterle on March 06, 2017, 09:25:52 PM
[...] Thus a small belly dart opens itself at the pocket line and the under arm dart opens as well, achieving the two seam allowances necessary. (wich is not right btw, because the SA´s are already included in the underarm dart).[...]

I beg to differ, I believe there is no seam allowance for the side dart included in the draft. My arguments:

• The original tekst says so.
  
• If there were seam allowances included, I would expect to see a compensatory addition to the front side seam. There isn't, the side seams of front and back are exactly congruent.
  
• I've looked at several Rundschau Ulster overcoat drafts which are all based on the same principle that is used in this draft:
  Rb + Ad + Bb = ½ chest + 2 seam allowances + ease
  For a normal Ulster overcoat the ease is 13 - 14 cm. In this draft, which is designated as extra loose and wide, the ease is 14.9 cm. If you subtract the supposedly included seam allowances of the side dart, it leaves 13.4 cm at chest level, which can't be characterized as especially loose and wide.
  

---

I just wanted to add, that the modifications involving the pivoted side dart, also known as the Donlon wedge, may be unnecessary or unwanted in stooping, flat chested figures. Where the Donlon wedge in jackets is usually reserved for the more exuberantly bellied customers, its application is generally recommended in overcoats even for "normal" figures, to counteract the formation of flares in the front, resulting from posture, size or volume of clothes worn under the coat.