I increasingly feel like I'm being held back by my current machine, a Kenmore 158, so am looking to upgrade. The two main limitations are the precision of the straight stitch and the overall strength/punch.
I look at other garments or videos of people sewing on other machines and the stitch looks more precise, mine is good but not as professional as I'd like it to be.
For strength/punch, I'd like the ability to sew denim/jeans, and while my machine can mostly handle that OK, it struggles with heavier threads (tex 40, using #14 jeans needles) and especially when I'm joining two flat-felled seams, like the seat seam where the yoke seams meet, even after hammering that seam.
Since I already have the kenmore, and that can do what little zig-zag stitching I need, I am free to go for a straight-stitch only machine.
I'm not sure what direction to go exactly, but I have a few ideas. A full-on industrial machine is tough because twice a year I have to move my set up to/from the basement and the third floor, and I have narrow steps. So, I'm limited to semi-industrial or beefy domestic machines. If I go semi-industrial, it would be the Juki TL line, which are essentially their industrial machines fit into a home-machine body, albeit one that's slightly larger and heavier than normal. That would seem to solve all my problems, but it's the most expensive option at around $600-700.
In the used/vintage realm, I came across some decent options: an old Atlas Deluxe which was serviced and upgraded somehow with a two-step pulley to increase it's strength: https://www.ebay.com/itm/156896547409?itmmeta=01JSEYZDVX4J25D86HS0ZPXMZT&hash=item2487c35251:g:g4EAAeSwT6Jn~xx2 that vendor has lots of interesting machines, this was the one he recommended when I described what I wanted.
I also found someone local selling a Pfaff 130 they'd upgraded to a servo motor, but with how they have it set up it might make it near impossible to transport without disassembly, though there are a few other good quality Pfaff 130s with the clutch motor available.
Anyone have any thoughts? I like my Kenmore, but it has some limitations, and I'm really getting into this and I don't want the limitation to be my machine anymore.
The Atlas looks nice... The motor looks like a chinese made upgrade and, purely personally, I hate the lightweight footpedal that comes with it. If you only need straight stitch look no further than a Singer class 201. According to many it is probably the best domestic straightstitcher ever made and they should be available in abundance stateside...
Cheers, Hendrick
Another vote for Singer. They don't cost much and were over engineered, so even if really old they're usually in good working order. They're also easy to service and get parts for, if you do run into problems.
I own a 185k built in 1960. Very powerful for a small machine. They have asymmetrical feed dogs, which means they can turn on a sixpence (as the old expression goes).
Quote from: Gerry on April 23, 2025, 04:59:24 AMAnother vote for Singer. They don't cost much and were over engineered, so even if really old they're usually in good working order. They're also easy to service and get parts for, if you do run into problems.
I own a 185k built in 1960. Very powerful for a small machine. They have asymmetrical feed dogs, which means they can turn on a sixpence (as the old expression goes).
That would be the tan coloured 185k. I had one during college and offered it to a friend when I moved to France in the early 80's. She actually still uses it for dress and blouse making! The good thing, apart from the build quality, is that these have a lightweight handwheel and as such they stop dead when you lift your foot from the pedal. Black Singers with spoked handwheels tend to run on for a few stitches (unless you are a slow sewist). Has to do with the mass of the spoked flywheels that were designed to ad extra moving mass in treadle setups. Many Singers with spoked handwheels were "motorised" later and have "motor moan"; more mass to drive wen you start them.
Cheers, Hendrick
I found a guy near-ish that restores a lot of old machines, says he has a Singer 401a I should consider. The 201s do look nice and appear to handle denim well.
This Friday I'm going to head to a store to try out the Juki TL alongside some used machines, if the difference is striking I may just get the TL but if not I'll take my time finding a used machine that'll work for me.
I have an older model of Janome semi-pro straight stitch machine - this is the US page for the current model: https://www.janome.com/product/hd9-professional/
It's fast and powerful, and you can get an extension table or even a full-size flatbed table for it. Also, it will take industrial feet - they're a lot cheaper and more robust that the ones Janome sells.
Looks like the Juki TL series are probably pretty similar though.
I use a Singer 201K for shirts and a Pfaff 138 for heavier garments.
The thing I like about this kind of machine is the fine metal gears inside that make perfect stitches. They are smooth and the heavy weight of them is a good base for work.
I'd use the Pfaff alone, and it has zigzag, but I was gifted the singer, and it's nice and pretty.
G
I also use a Pfaff 138, wich is a sturdy artisan machine, mounted on a table. It can easily be seperated from the table for easier carrying. With a contemporary servo motor the rest of the table is not too heavy and it delivers good piercing power even in slow speeds.
I also want to shed a light on vintage European machines. Especially Bernina, Elna and Pfaff did wonderful machines.
I seem to be settling in on two groupings of options - on one end are newer semi-industrials like the Juki TL, there's a Brother PQ1500SL for sale near me, the Janome HD9 (if I could find a good deal, those seem pricey), and on the other the solid vintage machines like Singer 201, Pfaff 130, a Necchi BF (if I could find one...), maybe that Atlas the ebay guy upgraded himself. Thank you all for the tips!
Quote from: EvanTA on April 24, 2025, 01:48:44 AMI seem to be settling in on two groupings of options - on one end are newer semi-industrials like the Juki TL, there's a Brother PQ1500SL for sale near me, the Janome HD9 (if I could find a good deal, those seem pricey), and on the other the solid vintage machines like Singer 201, Pfaff 130, a Necchi BF (if I could find one...), maybe that Atlas the ebay guy upgraded himself. Thank you all for the tips!
There's nothing wrong with modern, industrial machines. In many ways you won't have some of the quirks of vintage stuff. It's simply a matter of do you have the floor space? I don't, which is why I went with a semi-industrial (yet still domestic) Singer.
Bernina did make some nice models, but the early, domestic zig-zag machines can be lacking. I have a hand-me-down Bernina, circa 1964, that belonged to my mother. The straight stitch isn't great, the motor is really weak and the foot doesn't raise that high. I'm guessing that they weren't anticipating clients making anything other than light dresses. Their more industrial stuff from that period is top-notch though.
Oww, sorry I fogot... If ever you can get your hands on a 1950's Meister 101, look no further because it will probably be the last zigzag machine you'll buy in this lifetime. These were marketed by Sears as Meister "Sewmaster" and true masterpieces. Next are the Adler 189's. Durkopp-Adler licencenced to Oliva of Portugal but I doubt you'll ever find one of those (whoever beautiful!) in the US. Both machines are the last german domestic machines built to industrial standards. The Pfaff 138 that Schneiderfrei refers to is are class in itself (I learned sewing on one) but these are usually "sewn to death" in Europe. The first things I've sewn on these were linings (training session), I was nine yrs old, so good thing they had a finger saver on the needle bar... All these machines are synchronous back- and forward stitch; when you backstitch or tack, the needle will penetrate the exact same hole as the forward stitch.
Take your time to find what you're looking for!
Cheers, Hendrick
Quote from: peterle on April 24, 2025, 01:07:03 AMEspecially Bernina, Elna and Pfaff did wonderful machines.
I have about 13 machines... I only bought four of them, three industrials, which comprise two Pfaff 138, and a huge Juki twin needle from about 1985. The fourth was a bernina 730, which I saw advertised for $35.00 on the premise that it had no foot controler. I noticed that the foot controler was jambed up in the cover, kept my mouth shut, for once, and paid up.
I was gifted all the rest, including a 1958 Elna Supermatic, in beautiful condition. Sadly it lacked the double sided stitch discs, so I bought a few, and the replacement conical drive piece.
I don't really know what to do with all the rest, they are lesser brands, or missing bits and pieces, or I'm too sentimental to part with them.
Quote from: Gerry on April 23, 2025, 04:59:24 AMThey have asymmetrical feed dogs, which means they can turn on a sixpence (as the old expression goes).
Talk to me a little more about this if you can - I'm comparing machines and I see some are symmetric some are asymmetric. Does this count as asymmetric: https://c.media-amazon.com/images/I/616atWdV7aL._AC_SX679_.jpg ? And that affects the ability to sew precise, curved lines? I can't find language saying if it's asymmetrical or symmetrical feed dogs, though I do see you can adjust the feed dog height and even do a pin-feed mechanism.
Someone local is selling this machine, a Brother PQ1500SL, for $100. I have to confirm in person it works, but according to her it does. That would be quite a deal, but mostly online I see people talking about it as a quilting machine, though I also see people comparing it to Juki TLs, so I think it would work well for my purposes. A Singer 201 would be a really fun machine to have, but this would seem like a really solid buy.
Quote from: EvanTA on April 25, 2025, 01:35:25 AMQuote from: Gerry on April 23, 2025, 04:59:24 AMThey have asymmetrical feed dogs, which means they can turn on a sixpence (as the old expression goes).
Talk to me a little more about this if you can - I'm comparing machines and I see some are symmetric some are asymmetric. Does this count as asymmetric: https://c.media-amazon.com/images/I/616atWdV7aL._AC_SX679_.jpg ? And that affects the ability to sew precise, curved lines? I can't find language saying if it's asymmetrical or symmetrical feed dogs, though I do see you can adjust the feed dog height and even do a pin-feed mechanism.
On a lot of old Singers, the right-hand feed-dog is shorter than the one on the left. You can see that shown here in this replacement plate:
https://www.college-sewing.co.uk/32602-needle-plate-singer-66k99k185k.html?srsltid=AfmBOorvWSOoPBjsqjcVYrhD5zBGQS0vbrayO5B154IIV3P4rBSxKFcK
It makes sewing tight curves easier. With conventional machines, the foot has to be continually lifted with the needle down while the work is repositioned. With asymmetrical dogs turning is easier and can be taken in one sweep (so to speak). Though I still tend to 'walk' tight curves by hand cranking, for better accuracy.
It took me a little while to get used to. I had a tendency to veer off to one side when first using the 185, because I was so used to my previous machine doing all the work at keeping things straight. It didn't take long to get the hang of it, though.
Can you tell from that photo of the Brother's plate if it's asymmetrical or not?
After doing some looking around there are also several 201s in my area in seemingly good condition - comparably priced to the Brother, so it's down to those two for my machine. Can't decide, I am going back and forth between the two.
Quote from: EvanTA on April 25, 2025, 01:56:00 AMCan you tell from that photo of the Brother's plate if it's asymmetrical or not?
After doing some looking around there are also several 201s in my area in seemingly good condition - comparably priced to the Brother, so it's down to those two for my machine. Can't decide, I am going back and forth between the two.
By the look of it, yes:
https://coulingsewingmachines.co.uk/brother-pq-standard-needle-plate-quilter-pq1500s-pq1600s-only/
No idea how it performs though [edit: plus there's a lot of plastic in that model?].
Do people have strong opinions on the external motor, belt-drive Singers versus the potted motor Singers? I found someone selling a good condition, recently serviced Singer 201-3 which is the belt-drive style. My sense is that these belt-drive ones are found more commonly in europe and canada (the seller is in canada) versus potted motors being more common in US.
My other sense is that the potted motor ones are stronger IF motor and wiring are in good condition, whereas external belt-drive ones give you a little more control over the machine: you can upgrade the motor, replace the belt, fine-tune the belt tension, so is long-run more capable.
I may be getting into "over thinking it" territory, but that's fine. I'd rather over-think it now then have to re-think it after a purchase.
I follow this chap on youtube. Very informative:
Related vids:
https://www.youtube.com/@VintageSewingMachineGarage/search?query=potted
Stitch quality shown in this particular vid:
Never used one, but general consensus is that they're more powerful.
Ah, that's a good resource, thank you. Ok I pulled the trigger on the 201-3, very excited.
Well done, good call! The great thing about old singers, as I mentioned earlier, is that they're pretty easy to work on if you do get problems. That guy's channel is a really good resource, and there are other channels on YouTube too that show you how to service and/or repair vintage machines. I found them really useful when I was servicing my 185.
PS I don't know what the foot peddles are like stateside, but the UK Singers had the button type that you press with your toe. I found them really annoying so I bought a replacement, compatible rocker-pedal, which gives me far better control.
I also took the opportunity to extend the lead (I have long legs and the cables are always too short).
Anyway, let us know how you get on with it.
Quote from: Gerry on April 26, 2025, 05:14:26 AMPS I don't know what the foot peddles are like stateside, but the UK Singers had the button type that you press with your toe. I found them really annoying so I bought a replacement, compatible rocker-pedal, which gives me far better control.
I also took the opportunity to extend the lead (I have long legs and the cables are always too short).
Anyway, let us know how you get on with it.
Same here... The one thing I deeply dislike is the footcontrolers that come with Singers. I found a bunch of (brand new) black Pfaff metal footpedals at a place that went out of business a few years ago. Didn't hesitate to replace the pedals of the Singers with them. They're also heavy so quite hard to kick around like todays'plastic pedals.
Cheers and good luck with your machine!
Quote from: EvanTA on April 26, 2025, 12:39:39 AMDo people have strong opinions on the external motor, belt-drive Singers versus the potted motor Singers?
Nope. All are ok. There's no discussion, like that in industrials; clutch vs servo.
Got the machine yesterday! Fooled around with it a little bit yesterday and this morning, it'll take some time to adjust to it I think. Not a steep learning curve necessarily, more like when you're cooking in someone else's kitchen. I know what I want to do but my hands take a few moments longer to execute. I do love how smooth it is. With my kenmore it can get up to speed but it becomes sort of loud and you can feel the machine vibrate and it can be slightly distracting. Not so with this machine at all.
One bummer is it got dinged in shipping and a part of the belt guard broke off along with the bobbin winder. The seller agreed to split the cost of a replacement belt guard which I was able to locate on ebay. He'd otherwise packaged it well so splitting it seemed fair to me.