Bespoke Cutter And Tailor

Apprentices => Drafting, Fitting and Construction => Topic started by: Dunc on January 19, 2025, 01:19:16 AM

Title: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: Dunc on January 19, 2025, 01:19:16 AM
So, after many years of telling anybody who asked that I was absolutely never going to try making a jacket, on the grounds that it's way too hard and I'm not completely mad, it seems I have finally taken leave of my senses entirely and fallen down the rabbit hole.

Firstly, I should say that my main objective here is to try and develop at least some grasp of construction. I had not originally intended to put much effort at all (if any) into fitting, and I'm still keen not to get overly bogged-down... Having said that, I think it's not too far out, and so I figure that it's maybe not a bad idea to make at least some effort to correct the most obvious deficiencies.

The pattern is not one I've drafted myself - it's the one Patrick Grant released last year to accompany his book The Savile Row Suit: The Art of Bespoke Tailoring. Fortunately it was quite close to my size. I made a toile from it and did some initial alterations, which were:


As I've worked through it, I've come to realise that the pattern was somewhat lacking in reference points and balance marks, which I really should have done something about while I had the chance, but it's probably a bit late now...

In terms of construction, I've been mainly following the International School of Tailoring "Traditional Model" course from Reza over on YouTube, which I've found extremely helpful, but since I'm not using his pattern or materials, I've ended up deviating a bit here and there. I've also perhaps got a bit ahead of myself and put the pockets in already, having started out more following the construction sequence from Cabrera, along with bits from Grant. What can I say, I like making pockets!

I've now got it basted up as far as attaching the undercollar, and I'm not entirely unhappy with it, but there are some fairly obvious issues.

The first set of photos are with it unfastened:

(https://i.postimg.cc/w7C1k2Dr/DSC-1170.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w7C1k2Dr) (https://i.postimg.cc/Mn3r4cKg/DSC-1169.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Mn3r4cKg) (https://i.postimg.cc/f3QgZ7ZS/DSC-1168.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/f3QgZ7ZS) (https://i.postimg.cc/BLHYXMcG/DSC-1171.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BLHYXMcG)

Apologies for the dark fabric and poor lighting - the light isn't great here in Scotland in January, and my big softbox is up in the attic somewhere... Hopefully you can make it out OK.

So, the fronts seem to be hanging parallel OK when viewed from the front, and the low shoulder adjustment seems to have worked not too badly, but the side view shows that I've got what I believe is a front / back balance issue, with the chest and hem lines both rising quite noticeably from back to front. (I regret not marking a clearer waist line on the fronts.) The back view shows some bunching at the waist, along with some issues around the shoulder blades. Those might be the result of too much gather in the back armscye, or even just my hamfisted attempts at putting the shoulder pads in, but I think the balance issue is probably the most important thing. The back neck may also be a little high.

Second set of photos with the fronts pinned together... 

(https://i.postimg.cc/xXNFwfJC/DSC-1172.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xXNFwfJC) (https://i.postimg.cc/gwP41vbS/DSC-1173.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gwP41vbS) (https://i.postimg.cc/LgqzJXMg/DSC-1174.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LgqzJXMg) (https://i.postimg.cc/F11bWPJF/DSC-1175.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/F11bWPJF)

Much the same, but the bunching at the back waist is a bit more evident. I'm not sure how much of that is down to the balance issue, and how much is me putting on weight over Christmas...

So, the question is, have I diagnosed the balance issue correctly, and if so, how best to sort it out? Can I get away with just passing the sidebody upwards relative to the back at the side seam, and then adjusting the hem length to compensate, or do I need to open the pattern horizontally above the chest line? Or something else entirely?

I think I have a decent amount of inlay in all the usual places, so there should be plenty of scope for modifications.

Thanks in advance for your consideration and assistance!




Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: peterle on January 19, 2025, 04:13:23 AM
The first I can see is that the basting gathers the back Center seam a bit. Try to get it more relaxed for the fitting.
The second is, the basting of the shoulder pads forces the fabric of the back. Just remove the stitches so we can see where the fabric wants to go. Let the pads find their right position and baste them to the front canvas only
 The armholes seem tight. When changing the shoulder slope did you move the whole armhole lower or just the shoulder tip? Do you have some inlay at the front shoulder?
Yes, there is surplus length bunching in the center back and the front wants downwards.
Probably just a to long back balance. Pin or baste 2-3 cm away across the back from armhole to armhole and look what happens.
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: Dunc on January 19, 2025, 04:33:20 AM
Hi Peter!

I changed the shoulder slope using the procedure given by Cabrera, which moves the neck point up instead of moving the shoulder point down, so the armscye still should have its original circumference. And when I made the low shoulder adjustment for the right shoulder, I did lower the top of the side body as well. I may have gathered the back of the armscye too much, that was a step that I really wasn't too clear on... But yes, I have a good bit of inlay at the front shoulder.

I'll try your suggestions and see how I get on.
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: peterle on January 19, 2025, 07:23:57 AM
Good, you have an inlay, you will probably need it to let the front down.
I m not familiar with the Carbera method, but this will increase the armhole depth and the back length. Maybe that's why the back balance is too long and your waist line is so much deeper than your natural waist.  How much did you raise the neckhole?
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: Dunc on January 19, 2025, 09:29:53 PM
1cm at the neck point, on both front and back patterns.

One question about your suggestion to pin up across the back - at what level?
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: peterle on January 20, 2025, 12:21:16 AM
Somewhere mid armhole. It's not critical. Just for a quick impression.

1 cm is not very much and shouldn't influence the balance when added at the front and at the back.
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: Dunc on January 21, 2025, 12:31:22 AM
OK, here it is with 2cm pinned out across the back. Much better!


(https://i.postimg.cc/tnxy0nY2/DSC-1191.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tnxy0nY2) (https://i.postimg.cc/R3ZBSDW3/DSC-1192.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/R3ZBSDW3) (https://i.postimg.cc/dkzP9Q4d/DSC-1193.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dkzP9Q4d) (https://i.postimg.cc/KRhhkzKh/DSC-1194.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KRhhkzKh)
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: peterle on January 21, 2025, 02:07:24 AM
Yes, it is much better now. The folds at the back waist disappeared the slashes don't gape anymore and the fabric doesn't cling to the love handles anymore.(Is there a more appropriate term?).
But I think it is probably a bit too much. It seems the waist is a bit lifted away from the body, the coat lacks "waist closure" as we say in German. The Fish tail folds below the waist at the center back are another hint.
Did you do some iron work at the back parts before assambling?
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: Dunc on January 21, 2025, 02:57:19 AM
No, no iron work on the back before assembly, but there has been a bit of gathering / compression at the back scye (below the back pitch mark) after the shoulders were basted.
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: peterle on January 21, 2025, 05:27:52 AM
How did you gather de scye? With chain stitch?

You need some iron work for waist closure. At waist level you should stretch the side seam of the side panel and the back panel and the center back seam and it's inlay.
The cross marks mean stretching:


(https://i.postimg.cc/qgSTgnht/IMG-20250120-191326.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qgSTgnht)


(https://i.postimg.cc/75yrnkNw/IMG-20250120-191420.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/75yrnkNw)


Pics from "Der Zuschnitt in der Herrenschneiderei" edition XVII by M.Mueller&Sohn
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: Dunc on January 21, 2025, 07:50:20 PM
Yes, chain stitch (at least I think that's what it's called) and compression with the iron to gather the back scye.

That ironwork on the back and sidebody makes perfect sense, and on double-checking I see it's mentioned in Cabrera too. I think perhaps I had decided to keep the shaping to a minimum until I'd seen how it came together, but it could just be that I overlooked it... Anyway, I'll take a note that that needs to be done, but unless you think it's critical, I think I'll leave it for now.

My intended next step was to start work on the sleeves. I guess my question now is around how to actually implement this change to the balance, now that we've established what's needed, and whether it will affect the armhole. Obviously there's no point working on the sleeves if the armhole is going to change...
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: peterle on January 22, 2025, 05:43:43 AM
I think it would be better to do the ironwork now, because without you don't know wether the back balance is too short now.
For inplementing the balance alterations to the pattern, usually it is the best to distribute the found amount equally to front and back. In this 2cm Case, add 1cm to the front balance and reduce the back balance for the other 1cm.
When you don't have enough fabric at the front shoulder/neck hole you only can reduce the back balance for the whole amount.
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: Dunc on January 22, 2025, 09:12:49 PM
Thanks Peter. So I guess my next question is: how far do I need to rip this down to do the ironwork? Can I get away with just snipping out the bastings in the areas I'm actually stretching?

Next question: when you say "add 1cm to the front balance and reduce the back balance for the other 1cm", what exactly do you mean? Where should these adjustments be made?
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: jruley on January 22, 2025, 11:33:41 PM
Quote from: Dunc on January 22, 2025, 09:12:49 PMNext question: when you say "add 1cm to the front balance and reduce the back balance for the other 1cm", what exactly do you mean? Where should these adjustments be made?

Hi Dunc,

I had the same question when peterle helped me with a jacket fitting years ago.  The German coat pattern systems he uses have two measurements called "front balance" and "back balance".  I believe these go from a horizontal line at the bottom of the armscye up to the nape of the neck (back) and gorge point (front).  I think he posted a diagram showing these, but it's gone from my old fitting thread.

If you were fitting a toile, you would reduce the back balance by pinning out a horizontal strip between the shoulders.  You could increase the front balance by slashing the toile horizontally across the upper chest and adding a strip of material.  Since you've already cut out the jacket, all you can do is reduce the back balance by taking a deeper seam at the shoulder.
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: Dunc on January 23, 2025, 02:47:09 AM
I have inlay at the shoulder, the gorge line, the lapel, and around the neck circle, so there's probably some scope... About the only place I don't have inlay is in the bottom half of the armscye.
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: jruley on January 23, 2025, 02:59:28 AM
Well, it sounds to me like you could let some out of the front shoulder and take some from the back shoulder.  But I'm just an untrained amateur.
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: peterle on January 23, 2025, 07:15:55 AM
You could probably do the iron work with just snipping the basting but I think it is not very handy. When doing ironwork with double layered fabric don't forget to flip the material and repeat the process to the underlayer.

Jruley is right:
Front balance: the vertical distance from the chest line to the neck point.
Back balance: the vertical distance from the back chest line to the back neck Point.
Nativ speakers please don't be shy and tell us wether there is a more common term in English?

To lengthen the front balance slash your paper pattern horizontally and insert a 1cm strip. Best level is at the most narrow spot, where the "stretching" has the least impact to the armhole curve.
Same for the back, but you have to take out 1cm in your case.
On your cut fabric pieces you just lay your paper pattern on the fabric and shift it 1cm up (at the front) and remark the gorge-neckhole-shoulder line.
Same for the back, but 1cm downwards.

The reason for the front/back distribution is to keep the given scye size and circumference. Just shortening the back balance for 2cm would also shorten it's size and circumference.
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: Dunc on January 23, 2025, 07:44:01 PM
OK, thanks Peter, I think that all makes sense. Much appreciated. Obviously ripping it down, making the adjustments, and basting it back up again is going to take me some time, but I'll update with how I get on.

Thanks again for your time and patience.  :)
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: peterle on January 23, 2025, 08:49:13 PM
Sorry, no shortcuts in tailoring.

When you do the ironwork first lay the same pattern pieces precisely onto each other and do it double layered. Thus you make sure both pieces get stretched for the same amount.
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: Dunc on February 10, 2025, 06:34:06 AM
Well, that took a bit longer than anticipated... On the one hand, real life really gets in the way, and on the other, I had quite a bit of trouble getting the shoulders even halfway right - I've been plagued with folds from the back neck to the middle of the shoulders. This is about my fourth attempt, and I'm still not entirely happy with it, but I'm about out of ideas about what to do about it.

Pinned:


(https://i.postimg.cc/yD5cyGGd/DSC-1195.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yD5cyGGd) (https://i.postimg.cc/QFVc5D0w/DSC-1196.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QFVc5D0w) (https://i.postimg.cc/t1xPS50z/DSC-1197.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/t1xPS50z) (https://i.postimg.cc/crxRxwYs/DSC-1198.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/crxRxwYs)

Unpinned:


(https://i.postimg.cc/nMZ72B3v/DSC-1199.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nMZ72B3v) (https://i.postimg.cc/t756MJc8/DSC-1200.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/t756MJc8) (https://i.postimg.cc/Wq2k4cd9/DSC-1201.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Wq2k4cd9) (https://i.postimg.cc/5Y5z122Y/DSC-1202.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5Y5z122Y)

The balance is much better, as is the back waist, but the upper back is a bit of a mess now. I'm guessing I haven't corrected the curve of the centre back seam properly.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: jruley on February 10, 2025, 12:56:53 PM
Maybe the back is a little too wide?

Peterle will know better...
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: peterle on February 10, 2025, 08:56:01 PM
The balance is much better now.
I'm not sure about the reason of the folds in the upper back. These are stress folds, they form a triangle and point symmetrical to two points mid shoulder seam.
What is there underneath? Your shoulder blades? The end of the shoulder pads?

Why do you think you did not do the back seam curve correctly? What did you do?

My approach would be to open the shoulder seam leaving 1cm at the neck end and about 3-4cm at the sleeve end closed. Will the folds relax and settle down? If yes: Change the shoulder accordingly.
If No: I would open also the outer end of the shoulder and do a shoulder fitting. (Streaking the fabric gently upwards with the flat hand so it lies smooth, pin, marking new shoulder seam line.) Obviousely You need a second person to do this. Or a personal dummy.
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: Dunc on February 10, 2025, 09:12:46 PM
The thing about the back seam was just a guess... I just tried to blend the CB seam in from around the chest line after moving the pattern down.

There's quite a bit of hollowing applied to the shoulder seams, so it could be related to that. That might also explain the trouble I was having with folds appearing behind the neck point.

Doesn't help that it's literally the worst possible place to try and work on by yourself... ;)

I'll try your suggestion of opening the shoulder seams.
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: Dunc on February 11, 2025, 04:06:25 AM
OK, opening the shoulder seams seems to have helped, and I think I've figured out what's happened...

The chap / course I've been following takes what I think might be a slightly unconventional approach to the shoulder seam - he doesn't put any fullness in the back shoulder, and he hollows both the front and back shoulder seam by about 1cm from the original pattern line. He then stretches both front and back shoulder to accommodate the hollowing.

What I think has probably happened is that when I've redrawn the shoulder seam after moving it to correct the balance, I've drawn a straight line on fabric that has already been distorted by stretching - and then I've hollowed it again, and stretched it some more. It looks like reducing the hollowing of the shoulder seams should resolve this.

Time to take it apart again...
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: jruley on February 11, 2025, 08:42:36 AM
Curious about that shoulder treatment- does he say why he does it that way?  Could it be to accommodate a different shape shoulder pad than you are using?
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: peterle on February 11, 2025, 09:05:51 AM
OK, a concave shoulder line will definetly have an impact. It explains those strange stress folds.
I'm also trying to understand, what should be the aim of concave shoulder lines? Hollowing the back shoulder line will take length where it is needed most-over the shoulder blades. You See the effect in your coat.
When you want a concave shoulder you do it at the front. You stretch the front neck hole and support it with a permanent gusset in the canvas underneath.
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: Dunc on February 11, 2025, 08:13:57 PM
I knew that would open a can of worms... ;)

Fortunately, one of the things I like about this particular chap is that he does explain his reasoning for pretty much everything. He doesn't just say "do this, do that", he goes through the theory of what he's trying to achieve, how that relates to the anatomy, and the pros and cons of different approaches.

On the back shoulder, his argument (as I understand it) is that it's the wrong place to put fullness to accommodate the shoulder blade, and that for most people it's better achieved by gathering the back of the scye. He doesn't say you should never put fullness in the back shoulder, but he does argue that you shouldn't do it automatically - instead it should be a conscious decision made for a specific reason.

The first set of images I shared had the shoulder constructed in this way, and it seemed fine. I think the problem here is that I've re-applied the hollowing of the shoulder on top of fabric that was already stretched.

Obviously I have no idea who's right in this argument, and one of the things I've realised through the process of getting this far is that everybody does everything differently, which sometimes makes it difficult to combine advice from different sources.

Still, I've done these shoulders enough times now that doing them a couple more times doesn't really seem so bad any more, so what I think I'll do is try them again hollowed in the way I've been doing up until now, only a bit less, and then try them again with the back shoulder straight and with some fullness.

There are 3 separate videos on shoulders in the course I'm working from...

The first covers the shoulder anatomy and the position and design of the seams: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nul6HxPVlhI&list=PLWamty-BkYri1k4esNez5hk_DI3I8eZdk
The second covers the arguments for and against fullness in the back shoulder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHC6FuHaJgs&list=PLWamty-BkYri1k4esNez5hk_DI3I8eZdk
And the third is the practical lesson on preparing, basting, and canvassing the shoulder, basting the the armhole, and inserting the shoulder pads: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7asmuj8vlbc&list=PLWamty-BkYri1k4esNez5hk_DI3I8eZdk
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: Gerry on February 12, 2025, 12:38:43 AM
I think your second link was meant to be this one, Dunc:


I've never liked the look of fullness at the shoulder seam and don't put it in any garment. Like Reza, I came to the conclusion long ago that it wasn't necessary most of the time. Place the fingertips of one hand on the opposite shoulder tip, right at the edge of the shoulder. Swing your arm back and forth. There's no movement. If we raise the arm horizontally, away from the body, then there is movement but the width of the top shoulder narrows/is actually shortened. If we now crook our arm at the elbow and bring it forward, we shorten/narrow that width even more. We don't require ease at the shoulder seam, it's needed further down over the blades. That's where all the expansion is.

I've been following Reza for sometime now. I don't agree with every little thing he does, but at least he explains his method, as you say Dunc.
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: Dunc on February 12, 2025, 01:14:49 AM
Yes, thanks! I've corrected the link now.

I don't feel remotely qualified to judge the merits of the argument for or against, so I think the best thing to do is try both and see how it goes.
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: jruley on February 12, 2025, 01:47:37 AM
Quote from: Gerry on February 12, 2025, 12:38:43 AMWe don't require ease at the shoulder seam, it's needed further down over the blades. That's where all the expansion is.

Hmmm...
Maybe that's why 19th century cutting guides used a narrower back neck, with a diagonal seam which came down over the prominence of the shoulder blades?  With the front seam cut rounder than the back was hollowed, to provide that bit of length over the blades?

Maybe the main reason we put the seam on top of the shoulder today is to better accommodate checks and stripes, which get very badly distorted by the old fashioned cut?

Like Dunc, this is just unqualified speculation...
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: jruley on February 15, 2025, 03:27:51 AM
As an example:  This is an unstructured cotton seersucker summer coat I made for reenactment use some years ago using DeVere's 1866 system.  Stripes are parallel to the front edge seen from the front:

(https://i.postimg.cc/kBq4Y5jH/IMG-7124.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kBq4Y5jH)

Now look at the back shoulder seam.  The vertical stripes have become horizontal!

(https://i.postimg.cc/crhJpN2L/IMG-7125.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/crhJpN2L)
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: Greger on February 16, 2025, 12:58:08 PM
And it depends on the iron work.
This I heard as a child about hand sewn shoulder seams that can be shaped with an iron to fit "that" particular person. A machine seam will not allow this personal shaping. Was reading more details in a book from, perhaps, the 1880s, recently.
Another place to add length is the side seam starting part way up the side seam to the scye for shrinking. This also concern the shoulder blade and muscles in that area.
Like sleeve crown/cap. Shrink in as much as possible. If the muscles need more space the cloth is there which allows it to stretch. If you don't put in that length then it becomes uncomfortable and maybe ripes or tares.
All the extras you put in is to bring the customers back. A nice looking garment that "fits", but not with movement is not worth as much. And some customers notice.
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: Dunc on February 18, 2025, 04:25:29 AM
Definitely making progress I think...

This is with the front shoulder hollowed, and the back shoulder straight. There didn't end up being much fullness to ease in as the extra length of the front shoulder took up most of it.


(https://i.postimg.cc/0KMtb5Qq/DSC-1226.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0KMtb5Qq)
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: Dunc on February 18, 2025, 09:01:22 PM
Just looking again at the remaining folds... Do I still need a bit more space over my shoulder blades?
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: jruley on February 18, 2025, 11:43:54 PM
Maybe try what peterle suggested?  Let out the middle portion of the shoulder seams and see if they disappear.

I wonder if Reza's techniques were optimized to fit his own shoulders?  Maybe you don't need that much hollowing.

Were you planning on shoulder pads?  It doesn't look like there's much room left.
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: Dunc on February 19, 2025, 12:00:14 AM
The pads are already in.
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: peterle on February 19, 2025, 05:57:58 AM
Well done, the stress folds are removed.
Now we see some width above and below the back waist. The waist itself seems smooth.
I would sew the back seam instead of basting and would iron the SAs apart and I would make sure I ve stretched the center inlays thoroughly in the waist area to prevent any pulling.
Probably the shortness of the inlays don't allow the fabric to relax.
But most probably the back balance is a tad too short now so the waist of the coat can't follow the body.
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: Dunc on February 19, 2025, 07:49:02 PM
Thanks Peter, that's really helpful.

Since it sounds like I don't have any major fittings issues left to deal with here, I think I might move on to the sleeves now and deal with the centre back later. To be honest, I've been getting a little frustrated with this recently, so I think it would be good see a bit more obvious progress.

Thanks again for all your help and patience.
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: jruley on February 19, 2025, 11:49:23 PM
If you need a break you can make muslin sleeves, and at least get a general idea of how they work with your armhole.  But you might have to repeat your work if future body changes affect the armhole.

These little fiddly changes are the most exasperating part of the whole business, but they will all seem worthwhile the day things finally click into place.

Hang in there - you're getting close.

Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: Dunc on February 20, 2025, 12:27:14 AM
Yeah, a sleeve muslin was going to be the next step. I don't think we're expecting much change to the armhole now.
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: jruley on February 20, 2025, 12:33:43 AM
Probably not - but if there is another balance change it could affect the sleeve pitch.  I wouldn't cut the cloth sleeves until you are sure the body is right.
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: Dunc on March 14, 2025, 03:43:11 AM
Right then... The initial calico sleeve looked OK, so I went ahead. Here's the result:


(https://i.postimg.cc/BP56dhnS/DSC-1240.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BP56dhnS) (https://i.postimg.cc/k2Y43Rqb/DSC-1241.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k2Y43Rqb) (https://i.postimg.cc/svy1pRTv/DSC-1242.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/svy1pRTv) (https://i.postimg.cc/Whnz8fyS/DSC-1243.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Whnz8fyS)

Overall I think it's not looking to bad for a first attempt. Possibly something not quite right in the pitch of the right sleeve?

What does everybody think?
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: Gerry on March 14, 2025, 08:47:43 PM
Quote from: Dunc on March 14, 2025, 03:43:11 AMRight then... The initial calico sleeve looked OK, so I went ahead. Here's the result:


(https://i.postimg.cc/BP56dhnS/DSC-1240.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BP56dhnS) (https://i.postimg.cc/k2Y43Rqb/DSC-1241.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k2Y43Rqb) (https://i.postimg.cc/svy1pRTv/DSC-1242.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/svy1pRTv) (https://i.postimg.cc/Whnz8fyS/DSC-1243.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Whnz8fyS)

Overall I think it's not looking to bad for a first attempt. Possibly something not quite right in the pitch of the right sleeve?

What does everybody think?


I'm not a coat maker, I merely dabble, so better to wait for a more expert opinion. Firstly, well done, it's shaping up nicely.

Is your right shoulder dropped? Two things look a little odd about it. From the front it's very 'stepped', as if the garment is overshooting the actual shoulder. If you do have shoulder drop then possibly it's curving forward too, effectively reducing the width there? From the back, the right hand shoulder looks like it's sagging. There are pleats on both sides, but more pronounced on the right hand side.
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: Dunc on March 14, 2025, 09:57:29 PM
Yeah, I do have a slightly low right shoulder, and it does curve forward a bit as well. I did attempt to to take some account of this when cutting, but maybe didn't do a very good job of it - or it might have been lost in the subsequent balance alterations.
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: peterle on March 15, 2025, 03:11:49 AM
I think your sleeve cap is not high enough.Thus there are the stressfolds from your shoulders downwards at the top sleeves and the waves in the undersides of the sleeves. Scooping out the lower scye seams of the sleeves should help.

And you should remove the basting of the shoulder pads at the back. It hinders the back to roll over niceley and they won't be fixed there in the finished piece either.

Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: Dunc on March 16, 2025, 05:38:34 AM
Hi Peter

I have inlay all around the top of the sleeves, so I can change the cap height using that if that would work better? Or I can scoop out the bottom as you suggest... How much do you think it needs?

I'm not sure I see the stress folds you're referring to though. For example, on the left sleeve, do you mean the slight fold running down from just in front of the top pitch mark towards the elbow?
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: peterle on March 16, 2025, 07:07:31 AM
With stress fold I mean you can see that the whole sleeve hangs just at the front shoulder bone. Thus you can see a taught strip from this point to the hem. Not really a fold, yes.
To determin the right amount, Just open the upper 2/3rds of the armhole seam. You will see how much you have to lower the fabric to make the ripples dissapear.
When you use your top inlays, the sleeves will get longer. As you like it
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: Hendrick on March 16, 2025, 10:41:32 AM
Quote from: Dunc on March 16, 2025, 05:38:34 AMHi Peter

I have inlay all around the top of the sleeves, so I can change the cap height using that if that would work better? Or I can scoop out the bottom as you suggest... How much do you think it needs?

I'm not sure I see the stress folds you're referring to though. For example, on the left sleeve, do you mean the slight fold running down from just in front of the top pitch mark towards the elbow?

In the industry we call this effect "cording" in a sleeve... In a toile, I will cut the sleeve horizontally about 5 to 7 cm down from the sleeve head. Then cut vertically from that line up and pin and sew a scrap of fabric under that to correct. take out the sleeve and press flat to re-trace the pattern.

Cheers, Hendrick
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: Dunc on March 17, 2025, 08:36:04 PM
Thanks Peter, I think I understand.
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: Dunc on March 24, 2025, 10:47:25 PM
Right, I've altered just the left sleeve to give about 10mm more at the top of the cap. I'd definitely want to take the sleeves out entirely and re-mark the desired line before doing it again properly, but hopefully this is enough to see if I've got the magnitude of the adjustment about right. I think it looks a lot better, but then I'm not really sure what I'm looking for here:

(https://i.postimg.cc/xXTXvV42/DSC-1244.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xXTXvV42) (https://i.postimg.cc/1fKgV3MB/DSC-1246.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1fKgV3MB)
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: peterle on March 25, 2025, 05:30:30 AM
Looks definitely better now but I think it could be a tad more. There are yet some ripples at the back of the sleeve.
Probably you should add a bit more height at the front of the crown, in the area in front of the top sleeve mark. (There is enough crown height vertically where the ripples are)
This will make the front crown line a bit steeper and the highest point of the crown should shift a bit forward. When you look on the profile pic you can see that the highest peak of the crown should lie a bit forward from the shoulder seam.
Title: Re: Yet another jacket fitting thread...
Post by: Dunc on March 25, 2025, 07:59:35 PM
Thanks Peter. I think trying to freehand a new line with the sleeve still half sewn in was maybe a bit beyond my current skill level... ;)