Does anybody has a zoot suit construction?
My impression is that they are completely draped, and draped to the maximum excess of cloth.
Most mid- to late 1930's drafts would be a good start, keyword "London drape"...
Cheers, Hendrick
Occasionally, when I want specific, period details, I'll track down vintage sewing patterns and use them as a guide for shaping lapels, fronts, pockets and the general fit. I copy and adapt those details to my own drafts.
I couldn't find anything from the zoot suit period that would be suitable, however, only more modern 'costumes' (most of which are abysmal). Simplicity Costume No. 4585 is the most authentic I saw, though it's still a little theatrical looking. Patterns are available from amazon/ebay/etsy etc.
https://www.amazon.com/Simplicity-Costumes-Adults-Size-Pattern/dp/B000MU1OG2
There are more than one garments that are called Zoot suits.
(https://i.postimg.cc/PCzwZHCQ/3908.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PCzwZHCQ)
(https://i.postimg.cc/z3KX3jbn/ey-Jid-WNr-ZXQi-Oi-J3-ZWItbmluam-Eta-W1h-Z2-Vz-Iiwia2-V5-Ijoi-Ym-Jj-XC9pb-WFn-ZXNc-L3-Byb2-Rpb-Wdc-Lz-M0-Nz-Ff-MS5qc-Gci-LCJl-ZGl0.webp) (https://postimg.cc/z3KX3jbn)
Well, I'm No 'fashionista' by any stretch of the imagination but the only "Zoot Suit" I'm aware of is the one Cab is wearing ... and Isn't he wearing it Well ?? 8)
LOVE the Bow-Tie ;)
Some claim that the Jazz musician Frank 'Josh' Billings came up with the Zoot Suit in 1927:
Always impeccably dressed, Billings had an eye for fashion and "was always drawing sketches of well-dressed men". In 1927, Josh showed Bud Freeman one such sketch, outlining a suit that he had conceived. As Freeman was to recall, "The trousers were high peg-top, full in the legs and tapered down to very narrow, cuffless bottoms. The jacket was long, with wide lapels and one button, which was not worn buttoned, and there was a tight vest...My brother, Dave Tough, Josh, Jim Lanigan, Jimmy and Dick McPartland and I had suits of this design made immediately". The look was worn for about a year and the gang thought no more of it until, around 1932, what was almost a parody of Josh's design caught the public imagination and the 'Zoot Suit' was born. Even if this was coincidence, Josh undoubtedly had a flair for innovation and style, at least when it came to fashion.
From an article that used to be on a website I ran:
https://archive.org/details/frankjoshbillings/mode/2up?view=theater
The best Zoot Suit I ever saw was on an old, Afro-Caribbean guy in my local supermarket (of all places!). He was 'Windrush' generation and clearly hadn't altered his style of dress since the late 40s/early 50s. I dare say his family had been embarrassed by this over the years, but at certain points in time he'd have been in fashion, and in old age he looked fantastic (and immaculate, his suit had clearly been tailored). Were it not for my British reserve, I would have hugged him.
So long as it's not parody, it can be a great look (note the Hollywood Top trousers):
https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/three-jamaican-immigrants-john-hazel-a-21-year-old-boxer-news-photo/2667662
https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/boys-in-zoot-suits-no-other-information-available-news-photo/515355786
https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/the-male-college-students-wear-zoot-suits-about-the-campus-news-photo/615293986
https://ar.inspiredpencil.com/pictures-2023/zoot-suit
Trousers look like something Japanese I've seen recently, somewhere.. ::)
This discussion has reminded me of a Documentary I saw a few years ago about a group of snappily dressed 'Dandys' or Sapeurs, in the Congo, see here: https://www.messynessychic.com/2011/04/05/who-is-the-dandy-man/ (https://www.messynessychic.com/2011/04/05/who-is-the-dandy-man/)
Some very Fine Tailoring and Style exhibited there 8)
Quote from: Steelmillal on September 21, 2024, 05:14:02 AMhttps://ar.inspiredpencil.com/pictures-2023/zoot-suit
Trousers look like something Japanese I've seen recently, somewhere.. ::)
Those are the ones in the pictures I want to remaster. I wrote to Jeffrey Diduch, maybe he has a construction.
DZ, I misread your original post, after re reading I noticed you wrote Construction and not drafting.
Quote from: Schneiderfrei on September 21, 2024, 09:31:50 PMDZ, I misread your original post, after re reading I noticed you wrote Construction and not drafting.
Construction or draft is the same for me.
Some parts of the suits are exaggerated.
Lots of padding in the shoulders. Dropping down from the hips it gets wider and longer. Length, somewhere between 8 inches (20cm) below the brow of the seat to a couple of inches (5cm) above the knee. Any kind of fun with the lapels as long as they are wide.
Trousers- Add in as much width as you can. Some show large pleats front and back. High waistline. Long zipper or lots of buttons. Towards the bottom of legs they curve into narrow (band) width. Look at the 40s horse riding patterns, which might help figuring how to add bagginess in the seat and down further.
The purpose of these clothes is pure zany fun. Goofing off clothes. Humor.
At the fitting your customer may want some changes.
Quote from: Der Zuschneider on September 21, 2024, 09:46:51 AMTrousers look like something Japanese I've seen recently, somewhere.. ::)
These are not Zooties, but they are Japanese pants. I include them for general interest:
(https://i.postimg.cc/230xVCZV/d13e8d9e9aa2f3695cd665ca6acda413.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/230xVCZV)
(https://i.postimg.cc/zbJnGQDC/50263dac167728e0f417b5a78bd2fb4c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zbJnGQDC)
(https://i.postimg.cc/NLC1Qb3X/6e018108c6c5b85f379d8844bf5b633c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/NLC1Qb3X)
I believe this Zoot (https://unframed.lacma.org/2016/01/26/search-authentic-zoot-suit) suit example at LACMA has a pattern available.
Not a draft but a scale drawing I believe. You could interpret that silhouette into an existing draft.
Quote from: TTailor on September 23, 2024, 12:25:08 AMI believe this Zoot (https://unframed.lacma.org/2016/01/26/search-authentic-zoot-suit) suit example at LACMA has a pattern available.
Not a draft but a scale drawing I believe. You could interpret that silhouette into an existing draft.
Well done Terri! Here is the direct link to the zoot suit pattern:
https://www.lacma.org/sites/default/files/module-uploads/Reigning_Men_Patterns_Zoot_Suit.pdf
And the link to the main page for other historical patterns (what a fantastic resource!):
https://www.lacma.org/patternproject
Quote from: Gerry on September 23, 2024, 01:08:02 AMQuote from: TTailor on September 23, 2024, 12:25:08 AMI believe this Zoot (https://unframed.lacma.org/2016/01/26/search-authentic-zoot-suit) suit example at LACMA has a pattern available.
Not a draft but a scale drawing I believe. You could interpret that silhouette into an existing draft.
Well done Terri! Here is the direct link to the zoot suit pattern:
https://www.lacma.org/sites/default/files/module-uploads/Reigning_Men_Patterns_Zoot_Suit.pdf
And the link to the main page for other historical patterns (what a fantastic resource!):
https://www.lacma.org/patternproject
Oh, yeah, some ideas I can use.
I ordered this morning a zoot suit pattern for 20$. Once it is here I can trace it, cut it out, and then find out, how they did it.
Perhaps that lacma.org stuff should be posted somewhere appropriate, like the Reference section :)
Quote from: stoo23 on September 23, 2024, 06:16:24 PMPerhaps that lacma.org stuff should be posted somewhere appropriate, like the Reference section :)
Possibly pin it in the Costumers Forum?
QuotePossibly pin it in the Costumers Forum?
Done ;)
https://movsd.com/BespokeCutter/index.php/topic,1528.0.html (https://movsd.com/BespokeCutter/index.php/topic,1528.0.html)
I got my pattern today. When I am ready, I will reengineer the draft to see how they made it.
Some people are so poor they don't even want to spend money for a pattern and try to figure it out the long- and unsuccessful way by looking around in the internet to scrap bits and pieces together, meddling something together in the end that looks like crap.
FCK Stingyness. Find another hobby or just quilt.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/235668377569?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=H71G0RX5Tf6&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=iWtTQJIPRgK&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
Quote from: Der Zuschneider on September 27, 2024, 10:28:45 AMSome people are so poor they don't even want to spend money for a pattern and try to figure it out the long- and unsuccessful way by looking around in the internet to scrap bits and pieces together, meddling something together in the end that looks like crap.
Isn't that almost always the more expensive way? ;D
Quote from: Der Zuschneider on September 27, 2024, 10:28:45 AMI got my pattern today. When I am ready, I will reengineer the draft to see how they made it.
Some people are so poor they don't even want to spend money for a pattern and try to figure it out the long- and unsuccessful way by looking around in the internet to scrap bits and pieces together, meddling something together in the end that looks like crap.
FCK Stingyness. Find another hobby or just quilt.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/235668377569?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=H71G0RX5Tf6&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=iWtTQJIPRgK&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
There's a lot of snobbery towards sewing patterns, but vintage ones are really useful for research and I have a small collection. People forget that the designers who worked for pattern companies came from industry or copied what was current at the time. Firms like Vogue have even commissioned creations from leading designers over the years. Consequently, there are period or stylistic details in some pattens that would be difficult to replicate struggling on one's own.
I've never made any of the patterns I own, but I've learnt a lot from analysing them. And they're a great way of building up a library of templates for lapels, pockets, fronts etc. Plus they can be sold on later (not that I have - I love owning things that are older than me!). So there really is no point being stingy, as you say.
I also buy vintage items to deconstruct, but that's a whole other ballgame! :)
Think it is more fun looking at the style or fashion, which is looking at a number of them, because there are different variations of them. Before mass production it was the rich who could afford fashions. They were almost always the younger people. When I was a boy some middle aged men got sent home to change from the fashion suit they wore to work to put on a business suit. When they got a bit older they were told, "No more fashions." Some of these men went to tailors. Anyway, fashions are on a theme. Each theme has many variations. Only tailors can make the many personal variations. Mass production will make 500,000 or more - that is one variation, which is very limited, then another variation, and so on. When real tailors make fashions there are no copies. Each one is different. One tailor I brought a picture of someone else's pattern to an old tailor because I wanted to ask him a question about an adjustment, any pattern would do. When he saw it was someone else's pattern he became very angry. Art is art. Like the Mona Lisa. Only one person gets to paint it. Since it is already done we don't get to paint it. Same with patterns. Someone else's pattern is only for beginners to help them get started. Look to see how others done their own. Then create your own ever changing methods. There are more than one way to skin a cat. Plus, the customer has their own ideas. Inlays are handy for adding ideas and subtracting ideas and other arrangements. Zoot Suits are emphasized, silly.
Upcoming exhibition. Wrong side of the pond for me, though I'd love to go. Bound to be some original Zoots on display:
https://www.vogue.co.uk/article/superfine-tailoring-black-style-costume-institute-spring-2025-exhibition