I recently wrote a blog talking about AI vs Human creativity in Fashion.While AI plays a significant role, I believe we'll always need human input and creativity in fashion design. I've crafted an article on this topic. If you're interested, give it a read and let me know what you think!
(https://i.postimg.cc/Sjmw7VcB/Screenshot-2567-08-06-at-16-23-39.png) (https://postimg.cc/Sjmw7VcB)
https://www.sixatomic.com/blog/will-ai-designers-overtake-human-creativity-in-fashion
I'll give my thoughts on this subject. I'll be as respectful as possible.
Please understand this: We artists are not cotton pickers— we are not pulling weeds out of the ground— we are not struggling with a loom to weave cloth.
WE ARE IMAGINING! VISUALIZING!
We do not need a machine to be invented to help make our work "easier". That's because we do not do what people like you consider "work". Most of us are not dying to go home after a long day of work to sit on the couch and watch "Leave It to Beaver" while drinking a can of expired Budlight.
Do you people seriously think writers, painters, animators, and designers have been wanting a machine to automate their work so they could rest? NO; WE HAVEN'T!
Also you talk about softwares which involve platforms that already exist. Most designers already use Adobe, Blender, and others. Blender is free, physical Sketchbooks are cheap, Adobe costs money but is relatively cheap. I don't see how this is somehow going to reduce costs that don't even exist. Modeling isn't extremely difficult to learn once you get the hang of it. Heck there are already models of the human body that are fairly accurate. Don't see why this "AI" is needed. Maybe just keep it in Sci-Fi thank you!
Edit: Just to be clear I am referring to Generative AI, not AI in general. In my opinion it's just be harder to use Gen AI to create than make it using blender, a sketchbook etc.
Hey Sol, you may have noticed, but "fashion" has entered the digital realm; you can become the digital version of yourself as I write this and it excites a lot of people ("celebs"). You can also aquire digital versions of designs for the same purpose by design houses. Like in "the emperors clothes", However you aquire no physical goods, but hey, in return you can pay for them in equally "unphysical" Bitcoins. Fashion as a social phenomena is gradually being absorbed by the entertainment industry and celebrity cultures where equally fake "influencers" are the new marketeers and advertising guru's, In other news; people will always need clothes because as it were we can't wear bites or computer code and that is where you come in!
Cheers, Hendrick
Quote from: De De on August 06, 2024, 07:24:53 PMI recently wrote a blog talking about AI vs Human creativity in Fashion.While AI plays a significant role, I believe we'll always need human input and creativity in fashion design. I've crafted an article on this topic. If you're interested, give it a read and let me know what you think!
(https://i.postimg.cc/Sjmw7VcB/Screenshot-2567-08-06-at-16-23-39.png) (https://postimg.cc/Sjmw7VcB)
https://www.sixatomic.com/blog/will-ai-designers-overtake-human-creativity-in-fashion
It did already; it is called Shein or Temu, shipped through the "belt and road initiative" (also called the "polyester express"). You may discover it at a landfill near you...
Cheers, Hendrick
Quote from: Hendrick on September 12, 2024, 07:54:42 AMIt did already; it is called Shein or Temu, shipped through the "belt and road initiative" (also called the "polyester express"). You may discover it at a landfill near you...
Cheers, Hendrick
Classic. Thanks for that perspective. I hadn't clicked to the purpose of Temu. - Flood the market at less than cost price, until all competitors are deceased, then JAck up your profits.
Wow, I would never have thought people were actively using 'Blender' :)
8)
Quote from: Hendrick on September 12, 2024, 07:36:42 AMHey Sol, you may have noticed, but "fashion" has entered the digital realm; you can become the digital version of yourself as I write this and it excites a lot of people ("celebs"). You can also aquire digital versions of designs for the same purpose by design houses. Like in "the emperors clothes", However you aquire no physical goods, but hey, in return you can pay for them in equally "unphysical" Bitcoins. Fashion as a social phenomena is gradually being absorbed by the entertainment industry and celebrity cultures where equally fake "influencers" are the new marketeers and advertising guru's, In other news; people will always need clothes because as it were we can't wear bites or computer code and that is where you come in!
Cheers, Hendrick
Oh definitely, don't even get me started on the "Metaverse" and what not. I can't imagine these things are even possibly good for people mentality. It feels we are in the matrix now lol. Of course nobody is forcing you to wear these things— and I doublt they're even popular but it's a strange coincidence when media predict the future.
And regarding technology I apologize for being vague. Of course fashion has gone more "digital". I've seen designers use Blender and stuff like that! I haven't used blender yet but am hoping to eventually once I get a better graphics card.
CAD is another example, I don't use it as I prefer to be more "physical" in drafting (and I honestly find it more expensive than buying a roll of paper) but by all means use it if you want.
What I was merely mentioning Hendricks, was of how it appears some of the programmers don't seem to get what art is about. I've been in several arguments where I noticed they tend to steer towards thinking that art is stuff you want "over with"- believing for some reason that artists want someone to make their work easier or something like that. I guess saying it was like an office job may have been a poor choice of language but that was the best I could think of. Most of us artists rarely ever retire from our jobs. It's a passion more than anything. Making things "easier" just takes away from the dedication or motivation.
And because it's new doesn't mean it's good. Having progress in society doesn't all make things better. Replace a few artists? Great. Now what are you going to do? What are you going to do when every job is replaced and nobody needs you for anything! Your're going to feel extremely meaningless.
To be clear I'm not a "doomsayer". I highly doubt "Gen. AI" will ever be able to replace human artists; if anything it'll show who is a pillock. They said the same with tailoring when RTW came. Some tailors decided to "kneel", some decided to have RTW in their shop; yet others decided to just stick to what they know. The latter is where the craft survived and became more successful. We may have a different clientele over the masses, but it's not a bad clientele nevertheless. If it takes someone to be rich to find meaning in what we do (and that's saying a lot), and the common folk abandons us- then so be it.
I think this is what is going to happen to artists: Generative AI is the RTW for them; "Artists" using AI will be the MTM; but the TRUE art will be the tailor.
I know I'm using a "No True Scotsman" fallacy; but I'll just say to hush the puppies there is the " Argument From Fallacy" fallacy.
I know tailoring and being an artists aren't at all hand-in-hand; but the trade appears to be one of the few that is both a craft and art. Comparable to baking in my view where it's both an art but also very technical. And both you have to be very passionate about.
Quote from: stoo23 on September 12, 2024, 01:03:11 PMWow, I would never have thought people were actively using 'Blender' :)
8)
Well i mean the software is impeccable!
I mean it's a 3d modeling software that is F-F-FREE— *arg*
(hold your American Solomon hold it! You're on a Australian website!)
FRREEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOOM!!!
(Dang it!)
Quote from: Hendrick on September 12, 2024, 07:54:42 AMIt did already; it is called Shein or Temu, shipped through the "belt and road initiative" (also called the "polyester express"). You may discover it at a landfill near you...
Cheers, Hendrick
When someone buys from TEMU or Shein— an angel loses their wings... :-X
Honestly I am extremely curious as to why anybody would buy from TEMU or shein? Surely they know it's garbage right?*cough* Wonderbread *cough*
QuoteWell i mean the software is impeccable!
Absolutely,..it Sure is although has a perhaps slightly 'vertical' learning curve (for the 3D uninitiated LOL)
I have friends who do animations with it :)
I'm All Onboard with Free software, ... long time Gimp user ;)
Quote from: stoo23 on September 12, 2024, 05:01:45 PMQuoteWell i mean the software is impeccable!
Absolutely,..it Sure is although has a perhaps slightly 'vertical' learning curve (for the 3D uninitiated LOL)
I have friends who do animations with it :)
I'm All Onboard with Free software, ... long time Gimp user ;)
The animation part is mostly what I'm looking forawd to! Sadly I need to get a slightly better GPU before I can safely use Blender :( .
Also do you use a Linux distro per chance? I'm only asking as most of the distros I've seen have Gimp on the "pre-installed" so to speak. I know you can download it to other operating systems like Windows or Mac too, but the two tend to be like bread and butter.
Y'know... because it's FREE *cough* um— I mean
liberty! ;)
This new tech produces 3 legs and 4 arms? Fashions are going to get kinda wild. With 5 neck holes, wow, we get choices that we never had before to be, Cool!
QuoteSadly I need to get a slightly better GPU before I can safely use Blender
Ha ha,.. possibly, more ram would probably be good as well :)
QuoteAlso do you use a Linux distro per chance?
No, not regularly but currently I do have Porteus running on an older Toshiba laptop and have used and dabbled with many different Distro's over the years and yes, Gimp and Blender are happy Linux 'buddies', I have Gimp running on both Win 7 and Win 10 and my friend has Blender running on his Mac :)
Quote from: stoo23 on September 13, 2024, 12:16:08 PMQuoteSadly I need to get a slightly better GPU before I can safely use Blender
Ha ha,.. possibly, more ram would probably be good as well :)
QuoteAlso do you use a Linux distro per chance?
No, not regularly but currently I do have Porteus nrunning on an older Toshiba laptop and have used and dabbled with many different Distro's over the years and yes, Gimp and Blender are sort of happy Linux 'buddies', I have Gimp running on both Win 7 and Win 10 and my friend has Blender running on his Mac :)
nice ;D! I'll admit I haven't ever used Linux before but I have hard they work superb on older machines. I have a 2011 Mac Mini (the one with a dvd thingy), and once I fix it up a little I'm bent straight on installing a distro. The early Minis were only able to be maxed out to about 4-8gb ram I think; which with the newer MacOs updates it poor machine would probably bust.
I guess it may be a bit silly to be excited for a OS I've never used- but it's liek opening a gift you haven't opened before. It just seems to have the best of both worlds- almost as if I'm opening Pandora's box. That may be a little dramatic but the amount of creativity I have seen in the Linux community is mind-boggling. There's apparently a distro of
Hanna Montana (yes, Hanna Montana! I'm not making this up) that's based in Kubunto! If there's one of that than I can't imagine what else there may be.
Quote from: Greger on September 13, 2024, 09:45:09 AMThis new tech produces 3 legs and 4 arms? Fashions are going to get kinda wild. With 5 neck holes, wow, we get choices that we never had before to be, Cool!
I guess they are either preparing for a nuclear disaster... or they're dressing the E.T.!? (X-Files theme plays) ???
https://hannahmontana.sourceforge.net/ (https://hannahmontana.sourceforge.net/)
Wow,.. well who would have imagined that ??,.. ::) ;D
Kubuntu distro's are a version of Ubuntu, (which is Very popular) and is based on Debian a historically Stable and reliable distribution :)
Does your Mac Mini have an Intel CPU or a later Arm M1 or M2 CPU ??
If it is one with an Intel CPU (which being a 2011 model it probably is), the Linux MINT might be a great option.
Linux Mint on Mac Mini (https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=414249#:~:text=Re%3A%20Linux%20Mint%20on%20Mac%20Mini&text=Installing%20Mint%20on%20these%20is,installed%20with%20the%20Driver%20Manager.)
ZorinOS (https://zorin.com/os/) is also very good and would work happily on the Mac Mini I'd venture :)
Quote from: stoo23 on September 13, 2024, 02:29:29 PMDoes your Mac Mini have an Intel CPU or a later Arm M1 or M2 CPU ??
If it is one with an Intel CPU (which being a 2011 model it probably is), the Linux MINT might be a great option.
Linux Mint on Mac Mini (https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=414249#:~:text=Re%3A%20Linux%20Mint%20on%20Mac%20Mini&text=Installing%20Mint%20on%20these%20is,installed%20with%20the%20Driver%20Manager.)
ZorinOS (https://zorin.com/os/) is also very good and would work happily on the Mac Mini I'd venture :)
Wow thanks for the suggestions ;) !
You know I may have to make a correction to my statement: after researching I think I actually have a 2010 Mac mini; the reason is for the disk player. The models I've seen in 2011 don't appear to have the disk player so from that I believe it is more 2010 ish. But from what I reaserched it does have an Intel CPU; and apparently is compacted with a Nividia graphics card (the last thing I'd expect in a apple product LOL). Now I haven't checked the specs on my Mahcine yet but considering it had 4gb pre-installed ram I'm guessing it was from 2010.
QuoteBut from what I reaserched it does have an Intel CPU; and apparently is compacted with a Nividia graphics card (the last thing I'd expect in a apple product LOL). Now I haven't checked the specs on my Mahcine yet but considering it had 4gb pre-installed ram I'm guessing it was from 2010.
Well, that sounds like it should work very well with Most linux variants that can run on a Mac Mini.
A distro' like Zorin is very Resource friendly and can (with appropriate choice of desktop manager - like XFCE etc) can run effectively on older hardware with limited ram etc :)
Apologies btw to the OP for going completely OFF Topic of the 'Off Topic',.. ;) ;D
Quote from: stoo23 on September 14, 2024, 11:34:18 AMApologies btw to the OP for going completely OFF Topic of the 'Off Topic',.. ;) ;D
I was thinking the same Stoo! The OP was probably just doing this to market their products and then a month later I had to reply.
It's funny how a post named "Off-Topic" can become itself. Coincidence? It went from me ranting on AI to talking about Linux. Guess that's what happened when you name a post "off-topic" lol.
(https://i.postimg.cc/3W6HDBv8/IMG-1761.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3W6HDBv8)
This seems accurate ;D
Yeah,.. I guess considering the Topic title, ... We are 'Allowed' ;) ;D
Indeed we are ;D
Are you suggesting that I make movie costumes? Or, TV shows? That could be interesting.
Nuclear disaster. Chernobel has some strange biological things happening there. Or, mad scientists hiding their evil creations under as nuclear disaster. Don't see it other places.
Quote from: Greger on September 16, 2024, 04:30:36 AMAre you suggesting that I make movie costumes? Or, TV shows? That could be interesting.
He he I was referring to the acronym for "Extra-Terrestrial" ;).
Quote from: Greger on September 16, 2024, 04:30:36 AMNuclear disaster. Chernobel has some strange biological things happening there. Or, mad scientists hiding their evil creations under as nuclear disaster. Don't see it other places.
Well a TV show about tailors dressing radioactive mutants would sure be interesting now thinking about it. Wonder how that would play out...
Freaky wild beast. You really want to catch some and make clothes for them? It would fit right in with some of the TV shows of today. It would probably be profitable.
The problem with AI is that it is not human. Humans have passions. So often passion is why we buy. Economics is about passions that buy. AI is just a machine. Imitating us is not the real thing. Human nostalgia, for example, how can it create that? Fashions are about something that becomes Cool quickly. Fun to talk about. Fun to wear. AI is not human. The heart decides.
Was looking at Amiga forum. When was the last time Amiga made a computer? 40 years ago? They had "windows" before Microsoft.
Quote from: Greger on December 29, 2024, 07:29:40 AMWas looking at Amiga forum. When was the last time Amiga made a computer? 40 years ago? They had "windows" before Microsoft.
When was the last time Apple built a new computer for that matter? And are consumer computers even computers anymore or just "clickable and swipable devices", perfect for nobodies who don't even own the music they are listening to or worse, their family photos that are floating in the cloud?
Cheers, Hendrick
Thinking about getting a new computer. The last one is rarely used but, has a plug in problem.
How much data is Microsoft stealing from us. I like my private world. The phone is probably keeping an eye on me that it shouldn't.
In the old days I went places and nobody knew. Hiking up mountains and wandering through stores.
Guess the phone could stay home. But I should be able to take it and still be unknown.
Quote from: Greger on December 29, 2024, 07:29:40 AMWas looking at Amiga forum. When was the last time Amiga made a computer? 40 years ago?
Well, if we are being completely 'anal' about
Amiga,.. they never really Made a
Computer as such, (they were working on a Games Console) ;)
Amiga Corporation - WikipediA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_Corporation)
After Commodore purchased Amiga Corp' outright and acquired the 'Lorraine'/'Amiga' chipset, they eventually released the Amiga 500 :)
Commodore filed for bankruptcy on April 29, 1994 and was soon liquidated, with its assets purchased by the German company Escom.
The Amiga line was revitalized and continued to be developed by Escom until it too went bankrupt, in July 1996.
QuoteThey had "windows" before Microsoft
Ahhh, yes but so did Apple and realistically, the Methodology of the way the 'Windows' functioned on the Amiga, was probably More 'akin' to the great Grand Daddy of them All, being the Xerox 'Star' system machines, (who were the actual creators of the whole Graphical User Interface, Mice and Windows etc), as the Windows were (in effect), Separate '
Processes', that could in effect 'Run' independantly of each other, which was a rather clever feature, NOT employed by either Apple or eventually Microsoft, due to Cost and Architecture choices.
:) 8)
Quote from: Hendrick on December 29, 2024, 09:03:36 AMWhen was the last time Apple built a new computer for that matter?
Hmmm, well, strictly speaking, quite a Long time ago,...
In 1996, Apple sold its Fountain, Colorado, facility and started outsourcing most manufacturing to other companies.
In 2004, Apple closed down its last manufacturing line in Elm Grove, Calif.
Most Apple devices today are built by Foxconn and other 3rd party manufacturers and suppliers in China and elsewhere.
Although the
Mac Pro, is still
assembled in the US I believe.
Mac Pro (https://www.apple.com/au/mac-pro/)
Mac Pro - WikipediA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Pro)
QuoteAnd are consumer computers even computers anymore or just "clickable and swipable devices", perfect for nobodies who don't even own the music they are listening to or worse, their family photos that are floating in the cloud?
Well obviously ... YES, Real computers ARE still being made,.. ;) ;D but even though the Processing Power of Phones and Tablets etc are Impressive, most aren't Computers in the Real sense,... although, it is Possible to run Linux on some Samsung models, instead of Android.
Mind you,.. I remember reading the first review of the Apple Macintosh, in Byte magazine,.. Waaaay back,.. and it described it in their 'Conclusion', as;
"A great piece of Software, with some Hardware 'thrown-In' to Run it with",.. ;) :) ;D :D :P
Are you saying that "computers" and such are just a connection to mainframes?
QuoteAre you saying that "computers" and such are just a connection to mainframes?
Me ???
No,.. not at all,.. my place is still literally 'littered' with older Real Computers,... Not a Tablet in sight ;)
I still use my Samsung Smart phone, ... AS a Phone,.. although I do use it to take photos, occasionally (I still Prefer Film lol) and only use it for looking up Google maps occasionally, I have NO Music on it at all and I've sold HiFi and spent half my life in the Music / entertainment industry as an Audio Engineer,.. ;) :) ;D
I think one Could suggest that many Modern Portable devices might just be functioning as Just a Connection to a Mainframe, as so many people these day seem to want Everything 'in the cloud', (why, I have Zero idea) and it sure seems to be Social Media 'App' central these days ... :o ??? ::) :'(
The shady cloud we can get to anywhere with anything.
Don't have anything in the cloud either. Sometimes it would be handy.
Funny, I'm just helping my son install a new SSD. I couldn't get Win 11 to install. Said the system - a really pumped up gaming computer - didn't meet the requirements. It's only a few years old. Just a push to cycle everyone's prefectly adequate machinery.
My problem with the Cloud is - It's not a cloud, it's someone elses computer!
Quoteit's someone elses computer!
Exactly !!SOD Win 11, ... stick with Win 10 Pro :)
Quote from: stoo23 on December 29, 2024, 11:49:08 AMMind you,.. I remember reading the first review of the Apple Macintosh, in Byte magazine,.. Waaaay back,.. and it described it in their 'Conclusion', as;
"A great piece of Software, with some Hardware 'thrown-In' to Run it with",.. ;) :) ;D :D :P
Well - what Apple "got" (then and now) is the software is the whole point. A "real" computer without useful software makes a nice doorstop or boat anchor.
Hmmm well, I think one's 'definition' of exactly What a REAL Computer is may vary.
With the original Macintosh, the 'System' was completely Hidden and inaccessible from the user. There was NO actual Programming language available for it, as the Hardware and Operating system was Not available to the end user, so,.. like Byte reported, it was, simply a Box containing hardware, to run certain pieces of pre installed and provided software, like a word processor's etc.
The Computer industry, was founded on Large scale computers that did Not intrinsically,... Have Software per se,... they had Operating Systems and computer Languages to Write 'Custom' Applications with.
The original Apple Macintosh,.. was NOT even remotely like their Previous products, (those that had actually Put them 'On the Map' as such, like the Apple II etc), by providing relatively Open System configurations, Application Software and Programming languages,.. the Macintosh, gave users ZERO Choice and ONLY did what the Installed / Provided software allowed you to do.
It was Not extendable or customisable, in ANY way,.. in Real computing terms,.. it was Not one and couldn't be Programmed, so (in effect) was Not what people regarded as .... a Computer ;) :)
Quote from: stoo23 on December 30, 2024, 12:55:04 AMThe Computer industry, was founded on Large scale computers that did Not intrinsically,... Have Software per se,... they had Operating Systems and computer Languages to Write 'Custom' Applications with.
Who is your customer? Users, or programmers?
Way back in 1978 I took my FORTRAN course on a 'real' computer. Using punched cards. After typing out your deck, you took it to the reader. If the reader didn't blow your cards all over the room you were ready to sprint to the staircase to reach the line printer on the fourth floor. If your job hadn't timed out, you got about three pages of header and footer and maybe half a page of useful output. Any graphing of results was by hand.
Did my master's thesis project on a slightly more sophisticated machine using a terminal with a dial-up connection and primitive plotting capabilities.
I still have a brace and a box of bits that belonged to my grandfather as well ;D
QuoteWho is your customer? Users, or programmers?
:) Well, obviously, it Can be BOTH, if you so design the device to allow it ;)
Around the time the very First IBM PC was about to be released, the company I was working for wanted to purchase a couple of Desktop computers.
Due to their interest and customer base, we had become aware of a certain brand of rather clever high end Japanese
SORD computers.
Because of the engineering development work, we were envisaging, the brand new
SORD M68k, was the seemingly appropriate machine to choose.
SORD World magazine - Feb' 1984 (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/205jygvdqvyiwynii1pu6/sordworld03web.pdf?rlkey=lq99hx2e2yku6vlde0zkf4m58&st=nq00s4cd&dl=0)
It had 2 x CPU's, a Motorola 68000 and a Zilog Z80A and could run in 8 or 16 bit modes.
When running in 8 or 16 bit mode (using the Z80), it used Sord's own propriety OS and could run their slick compilable Basic, or a variety of other languages available in that era :)
When running in 68000 mode, it ran a custom version of CPM and used the Z80 as it's I/O handler !!
It could also run a 'Native' Sord Basic graphics extension language sub system, called SGL and had Full 16 bit colour graphics and a high res' monitor,... it made an IBM PC look like it was from the dark ages LOL
In a time when the 'Word' was that the Japanese made great hardware but their software was 'Shyte', the Sord, came with one of THE Best Spreadsheet/Relational Database programs I have ever used, called PIPS.
We wrote our Own accounting software using PIPS, as it could be extended to include custom Programming, using a Basic like command language, that allowed customisation of the basic (already excellent) PIPS programme !!
It also came, with possibly THE Best Word Processor I have ever used,.. you could probably have Published a book using it but it was so easy to use and was of similar quality to a Wang or Wordperfect WP,.. in a word,.. Excellent.
It also allowed us to create a Suspension Mapping and design system, used initially by some guys running F3 and Formula Fords out here,.. (all very Hush-Hush, at the time) and also do all the initial Patent applications for a very clever 'Stratified Charge' style combustion system (prior to Honda's), that the Government was very interested in :)
So,.. as suggested, the Customer can be both,.. as can the machine .... even back then,... although obviously later than your experiences but I had only recently left VW Australia and they were still using a Huge IBM Mainframe system, that took up a 3rd of the ground floor of the building ::)
Quote from: stoo23 on December 30, 2024, 02:48:02 AM:) Well, obviously, it Can be BOTH, if you so design the device to allow it ;)
So why aren't they so designed?
Follow the money...
Somewhere on my shelves or in a box is one of those math handbooks with tables of trig functions and present a future values accounting for compound interest. Haven't looked at it in years. If I need a trig function I get out my calculator, or just google ("sine n degrees) on my phone. All of the interest rate formulas are in Excel.
One thing I was taught in that FORTRAN class was "structured" programming. Instead of coming up with your own bizarre method for a "DO loop", here's a proven block of code that does the job. String these blocks together (or use them as subroutines) and you can really cut down on debugging time. Maybe at the expense of greater memory requirements but Moore's Law has largely removed that constraint. Nowadays smart people have taken that idea to the logical conclusion and we have MATLAB.
Sixty-four years of observation leads me to agree with Scott Adams that most people are idiots. And almost everyone is an idiot about something :). Most people running PC's today have absolutely no business trying to write their own software, and the available apps are light years ahead of what all but the most dedicated geeks could achieve.
Most people shouldn't be writing their programs. Fair enough. Problem. Some companies need someone to write programs. Avail programs do somethings very well. What about no program that needs to be made. And of course the variations. A friend of mine does specialized programming. They are trying to out do their competition. They certainly don't want their competition having this ever changing program that meets their ever changing needs.
Wordperfect I liked. Microsoft is garbage. It is nice to have programs adaptable by a local programmer. Fixed is nice for some people. Both methods bring in more money.
Like everything else, it's a trade off. Most new car models in the US can't even be ordered with a manual transmission. Many "real" photographers sneer at automatic exposure and autofocus systems. But my "keeper rate" for airshow photography really went up when I started using them :).
It may be nice having your own custom tools, but often you can do the job just as well using standard tools in a different way.
Microsoft has the lion's share of the PC market, so they must be doing something right ;D
Airshow photography. That's pretty neat.
Quote from: jruley on December 30, 2024, 01:54:46 AMWay back in 1978 I took my FORTRAN course on a 'real' computer. Using punched cards. After typing out your deck, you took it to the reader. If the reader didn't blow your cards all over the room you were ready to sprint to the staircase to reach the line printer on the fourth floor. If your job hadn't timed out, you got about three pages of header and footer and maybe half a page of useful output. Any graphing of results was by hand.
jruley,
My father was a mining engineer in Mt Isa, Queensland in the 60's he jumped ship to computer programmimg as soon as he saw the stuff. Actually (I may have mentioned this before, but) there was a small pair of flat nosed pliers that I grew up with, that had enlarged handle covers, made with yellow garden hose. I was well into my 50s when he told me they were originally used to program the computer at Mt Isa Mines.
He had 32 computer languages under his belt by the end of the 1990s. Whenever he tried to teach me, I always fell asleep.
Quote from: Schneiderfrei on January 02, 2025, 03:41:20 PMMy father was a mining engineer in Mt Isa, Queensland in the 60's he jumped ship to computer programmimg as soon as he saw the stuff. Actually (I may have mentioned this before, but) there was a small pair of flat nosed pliers that I grew up with, that had enlarged handle covers, made with yellow garden hose. I was well into my 50s when he told me they were originally used to program the computer at Mt Isa Mines.
He had 32 computer languages under his belt by the end of the 1990s. Whenever he tried to teach me, I always fell asleep.
I remember my older brother's first 'computer'. One of those science project things you could send for after collecting enough green stamps. It had plastic sliding levers and hairpin springs. Programming involved putting short lengths of what looked like soda straws on nubbins on the sliders. When everything was in place you pulled one of slides, things clicked into place and you could demonstrate simple binary operations like addition and multiplication.
One of my grad school professors was a German engineer who had worked on jet engines during WWII. He told us they had electronic calculators with gears and wheels, and when you wanted the solution you literally "turned the crank".
The moral (if any) is we sure take a lot of things for granted today. There was a time when communication with machines was totally open-ended.
Great story jruley, thank you.
One of my grad school professors was a German engineer who had worked on jet engines during WWII. He told us they had electronic calculators with gears and wheels, and when you wanted the solution you literally "turned the crank".[/quote]
I think THIS may have been what he was referring to:
Curta - WikipediA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curta) ;) 8)
(https://i.postimg.cc/wB5Xqy7P/Curta-1.jpg)
One of those Superbly crafted and engineered pieces of Excellence that would probably last multiple life-spans and make for a great Mantle Ornament, like perhaps a Nagra SN Pocket tape recorder and Minox 'Spy' camera ;D
Quote from: stoo23 on January 03, 2025, 09:12:29 AMI think THIS may have been what he was referring to:
Curta - WikipediA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curta) ;) 8)
Interesting find, but not quite - I think his were for calculus and differential equations. Same general idea though.
Forgot whether it was Patriot's Point SC or Pearl Harbor, but I was impressed with an exhibit of the fire control computer from a WWII battleship. Range and bearing indications from the rangefinders and turrets were converted to electrical signals, then routed to a central "table" where the 'solution' was computed using cams and gears. Range rate and bearing rate were accounted for, as well as speed of the ship, deck pitch and roll and probably the assumed wind speed. When everything lined up just right an electrical signal fired the guns. All beautifully machined from brass.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_I_Fire_Control_Computer
Well, it Wasn't ... 'A find' as such, I had a school friend, who's older brother used to Rally cars and they used one for Navigation,... along with a Halda, later on. I thought it was very cool ... and 'Trick'. Always wanted one ;)
Apart from the advanced work done by Turing & Welchman in WW2, the ONLY German (Nazi) scientist I am aware of that was one of the early pioneers involved in Analog (electro-mechanical) computing stuff that involved; (calculus & differential equations), was Helmut Hoelzer.
Hoelzer was involved in designing and developing the guidance systems for the A4 rocket (better known as the V2), see here:
Analog Computers: Looking to the Past for the Future of Computing (https://illumin.usc.edu/analog-computers-looking-to-the-past-for-the-future-of-computing/)
Helmut Hölzer - WikipediA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmut_H%C3%B6lzer)
:)
Quote from: stoo23 on January 03, 2025, 01:05:07 PMApart from the advanced work done by Turing & Welchman in WW2, the ONLY German (Nazi) scientist I am aware of that was one of the early pioneers involved in Analog (electro-mechanical) computing stuff that involved; (calculus & differential equations), was Helmut Hoelzer.
Hoelzer was involved in designing and developing the guidance systems for the A4 rocket (better known as the V2), see here:
Analog Computers: Looking to the Past for the Future of Computing (https://illumin.usc.edu/analog-computers-looking-to-the-past-for-the-future-of-computing/)
Helmut Hölzer - WikipediA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmut_H%C3%B6lzer)
:)
This was my professor:
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolph_Edse
He didn't provide any specifics about the "electronic machine" (his words). He just explained that was the origin of the phrase "turn the crank" to solve a math problem.
:) That may even be some weird German 'expression' perhaps not literally meaning a physical 'crank' ??
Certainly a person with an interesting background ;) :)
Quote from: stoo23 on January 03, 2025, 11:41:36 PM:) That may even be some weird German 'expression' perhaps not literally meaning a physical 'crank' ??
Still used by physics and math professors when I was in college. Along with "poke the equation", and "crunch it through" (by a physics prof whose hobby was a sawmill).
I happened to find this great explanatory video :)
Nice find! But I think these items weren't widespread enough to create a phrase. Probably the origin is much more profane:
(https://i.postimg.cc/fJTHWsDw/2730-643960501.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fJTHWsDw)