Bespoke Cutter And Tailor

For those interested techniques of shirt construction, there is relatively little information out there. DPC has two books on the subject. But unfortunately the resources (blogs and websites) and pictures he compiled (and are advertised in the books as 'available online') are, to my knowledge, no longer available. He has, as many already know, since passed, so little hope that those materials will be available on request.

I wanted to start a thread compiling available techniques from video, print, or post. For archival stability, the following seems like good procedure. I'll update the original post as sources are added.

1) For internet posts, you can print the webpage to pdf and post that here (either as pdf or image) for better archiving.
a) https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCx_fw0t5KnkaOZlwKp4w_GC_YLJwpAnl&si=jVCwpgsB9WADj1M0

2) For books, you can use an app like GeniusScan to make a pdf from the images you take of the pages that can then be posted in comment or via dropbox.
(a) https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/pl4bjvdpa6pj4owwk8f36/Collar-Construction.pdf?rlkey=03mj5rvbbgycfro9r1psm1z9b&dl=0
 (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/pl4bjvdpa6pj4owwk8f36/Collar-Construction.pdf?rlkey=03mj5rvbbgycfro9r1psm1z9b&dl=0)

3) For videos, youtube or vimeo are probably best.

My first addition is an interesting "wrapped corner" method for collar and cuff construction, which involves cutting top and under collar/cuff larger and smaller than the pattern (respectively) and then sewing the top collar/cuff edges down before turning.

Will upload videos and texts as I can

As a more personal request, I'm looking to hear/see/read side seam and shoulder seam for inset sleeves construction techniques--specifically re: lapped, felled, or frenched seams.

I've seen the Kirby Allison video when the seamstress uses a rolled hem foot to sew the side seam from hem to cuff. This works well but I've had extreme difficulty working the bulky portion of the sleeve/body.

I've been testing different rolled hem feet/feeders, lap seam folders, etc. on my single needle lock stitch to mostly no avail. The two step fell seam I find particularly clunky, especially on the shoulder seam, and especially if the fabric is fray-prone.

Collar and cuff attaching is also tedious, so looking for a streamlined technique that produces the sharpest/smoothest transition from collar to body or sleeve to cuff.

Quote from: Chanterelle on April 07, 2024, 02:14:48 AMI've seen the Kirby Allison video when the seamstress uses a rolled hem foot to sew the side seam from hem to cuff. This works well but I've had extreme difficulty working the bulky portion of the sleeve/body.

I've been testing different rolled hem feet/feeders, lap seam folders, etc. on my single needle lock stitch to mostly no avail. The two step fell seam I find particularly clunky, especially on the shoulder seam, and especially if the fabric is fray-prone.

When side seams are hemmed, it's usual to sew the long seams of the sleeves separately and set them in already completed, rather than trying to tackle cuff to hem as a single seam. IIR, the Kirby vid doesn't actually show the sleeves being sewn in (pretty hazy memory, though, so forgive me if that's not the case). It's also common to shave a little off the front of the sleeve pattern (I use 3/8ths) and add it to the back, which offsets the sleeve and body seams at the armhole (the former being more forward than the latter). This reduces bulk.

If you encounter problems with bulk when using a hemmer foot for actual hems, there's a nice trick that Mike Maldonado demonstrates in one of his pay-for videos. You basically decouple the cloth from the foot, move your work past the side-seam bulk, then resume. Finish the unstitched portion by edge stitching with a conventional foot, or compensating foot (these are fantastic, BTW, once you get the hang of them). Having said that, I hate hemmer feet. Even when you get the hang of them, they twist the cloth (it's just their nature), creating a wavy hem.

I paid for a couple of Maldonado's modules. I don't think his site has been revamped in years. I had to reduce the page size significantly to even see the checkout basket in order to pay. Then everything was sent via dropbox, which has a limit on size with free accounts. After lengthy email exchanges, he had to send everything in stages. All rather frustrating.

https://www.shirtmakersinstitute.com

Although interesting to watch, I didn't gain much from his methods; and what I did find useful is freely available via his youtube content:

https://www.youtube.com/@Maldonado60/videos

https://www.youtube.com/@shirtologist9365/videos

That's not to say that you won't learn much/anything, it's just that I already have my own way of doing things.

Re DPC, Craftsy has a little series by him on shirt-making. It demonstrates the collar offset method you mention. Unless things have changed (check the small print), you can sign up to Craftsy for a month, immediately cancel (or do so before the month is up) and you'll still get to view content for a month.

https://www.craftsy.com/class/shirtmaking-details-beyond-the-basics/

There are more courses on shirt making at Craftsy, but they're very much in the home-sewer mould. This is the only other one worth watching IMO (it has some useful tips here and there):

https://www.craftsy.com/class/sew-better-sew-faster-shirtmaking/

Some more free content here, from one of Budd's cutters:

https://www.youtube.com/@sewjimmymac2140/videos

And more free stuff:

bespoke educator

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzEhxiMWzYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkheQa5cvH4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVWB8qzH7Zs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqsS7pOn20E


Become a Tailor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW-TTu4I_wk&list=PLjqu6rb5rpBCdQuHkDyCM07PdZhzlryA6

Sew with Sally (the other industry way of making gauntlets):

https://youtu.be/CYPX6K63lTA?si=8PSKYpmmWOfNbkSc

EDIT: just to clarify re Craftsy, although individual lessons can be bought, they're quite pricey and not things that I'd watch over-and-over. The alternative is to take out a subscription and cancel the auto-renew before the month expires. Then you can watch a load of stuff for only $11 (US).

There is also a video uploaded by a Paul Kruize, although not instructional, many things can be observed in it.

Other videos:

EDIT: Seems this video is no longer available on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/@GUSEVBESPOKE

The rolled hem foot worked quite well for me, although with thicker materials, the seam becomes bulky. There's another clever solution that Emma Willis employs:

Not in English, so you might need to enable youtube's auto translate for these. Even without that function, you should be able to understand what's going on.

Pin tuck panels for shirt fronts (results shown at end):

https://youtu.be/vq7Y4Hwlcx0?si=sXlN40GP62k398R8

Cocktail cuffs:

https://youtu.be/P0WDt2uPsJU?si=pNt5UWl0CaxeCRb1

Sleeve gauntlets/plackets:

https://youtu.be/xjIsoLCV48Y?si=qXHvE76sjQr8Kcuj

Double lapped seam from hem to cuff:

https://youtu.be/GlUidJA1nSQ?si=rhdRQk6EbPJ-WeOe

From the same tailor, a whole load of shirt vids:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6BoqtxUGZ0&list=PLPmeKkSRs-B1xoWV0lQxBaVsGaxB3EZ0k

Some very good, practical advice on hand-sewn buttonholes. In Russian, but youtube's auto-translate does a decent job of conveying the info:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm2V4YYylN0

More from the same tailor:

Sewing buttons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmXonF5_wLM

Darts on striped fabric

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo_Xh7q0tDQ

Gussets

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziqb8pbJG_Y

Pattern matching checks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jz1qP3ntF4o

Pattern matching sleeve gauntlets/plackets

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDFbPWQN4ZM

Raised front placket - interestingly, three folds are used, presumably saving the bother of interfacing?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1Ytd36lEgE

Dress shirt differences and how to adjust a shirt sloper accordingly; followed by another demo of a raised front placket and his way of doing pintucks ... though on an episode of Sewing Bee, Patrick Grant (Savile Row proprietor and tailor) mentioned that it's easier to do them on a block of cloth then lay your pattern over the finished result for striking and cutting. Which seems like less work/calculations to me.

https://youtu.be/W-Vf8i9SG80?feature=shared

I know this is probably not what you had in mind, but it is a construction guide.


(https://i.postimg.cc/nCh2V16J/Shirtmaking.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nCh2V16J)

(https://i.postimg.cc/ygThsJjx/Shirtmaking2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ygThsJjx)

(https://i.postimg.cc/7bxMXVP2/Shirtmaking3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7bxMXVP2)

These are all fantastic videos. Especially these two. Have infinite difficulty pattern matching gauntlets, particularly on asymmetric plaids, like madras...

Quote from: Gerry on April 09, 2024, 01:14:55 AMPattern matching checks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jz1qP3ntF4o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jz1qP3ntF4o)

Pattern matching sleeve gauntlets/plackets

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDFbPWQN4ZM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDFbPWQN4ZM)

One of the Vladimir Sadykov's vids from his playlist (linked above) also covers pattern matching:

https://youtu.be/qzCYcQQY3yQ?si=dxLoqF1AOYU6R46E

He does the typical tailor's thing of only cutting out the top piece, then aligning its pattern with that on the cloth underneath. You then cut round the top piece, using it as a template. He pins the pieces, most don't bother, unless the cloth is slippery (silk/whatever).

Can't remember if it's the above vid or another, but in one you see him laying out a client's patterns that are make out of old newspaper "I was too lazy to go to the store".

One thing I tried on a test garment recently, and will be doing from now on, is glue basting the long seams when using a pattern with a horizontal line. Heat one of the seams (which seam is best depends on the method you use to close them, but it's not critical), smear on some paper glue from a stick (it's not permanent and is water soluble, though do protect your ironing board with greaseproof/baking paper), finger press the pieces together until alignment is spot on, then steam press to form a stronger bond. Just to make sure the seams don't come undone as I take the work to the machine, I also use three pins to secure the starts middles and ends of the seams, a little from the intended seam line. Otherwise the weight of the cloth can pull at, and undo, the glue baste.

Pattern matching along the seam is fantastic using this method. Better than using one's eye when feeding in the cloth to the needle, or pinning/basting with thread (pieces can still shift around). This is a snap of the sleeve seam. It would look even better with a press, but I'm never going to wear this so I didn't bother:

https://flic.kr/p/2pJ7x7z

I imagine this would involve a bit of easing down the length to match, given that the sleeves seams are not exactly perpendicular to the pattern

Quote from: Gerry on April 09, 2024, 10:40:29 PMhttps://flic.kr/p/2pJ7x7z

Quote from: Chanterelle on April 10, 2024, 02:59:31 AMI imagine this would involve a bit of easing down the length to match, given that the sleeves seams are not exactly perpendicular to the pattern

Quote from: Gerry on April 09, 2024, 10:40:29 PMhttps://flic.kr/p/2pJ7x7z

The sleeve would have to be a cylinder to get perfectly stright horizontal lines. Because of their taper, sleeves are more conical in shape, so all we can do is match things along the point where the horizontals meet.

Unless I'm missing a trick? (a call to the more experienced).

A consequence of all the link-hunting I did for my posts above, is that some really interesting stuff turned up in my youtube feed. None of these are in English, but youtube's auto-translate feature works well enough to understand what's going on.

This video demonstrates how pin-tucks can be done for a Guayabera shirt (as featured in Kirby's recent Cuba series). It demonstrates the detail of the Patrick Grant approach that I mentioned above. For the fronts, only the side seam and armhole are marked. The rest of the shirting (brushed cotton?) is cut as a rectangular block with excess width on the front - done here because the placket is a straight line, so the pattern can't be disrupted. This excess compensates for the cloth lost to the tucks. When sewn, the pattern is placed over the fronts then the shoulders and neck marked and cut. A simple, intuitive way of doing things.

https://youtu.be/ZWee_WNwOek?si=HBf6Yg68PxmuyzwT

He also demonstrates a very clever way of using a conventional foot along the lines of a pintuck foot. The ridge of the first tuck acts as an edge-guide for the left hand side of the foot. So spacing is determined by the width of the foot used (or rather the width of it's left hand prong), and done on the fly rather than marking everything. Two, shorter vids by the same guy, showing the tucks, the second demonstrating the insertion of an embroidered strip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLtsLgGviAQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYrZrzgNDao

Guayabera shirts are a little baroque for my tastes, but a more minimalist version (no back pleats and no embroidered strips) can look quite elegant. That aside, this is an instructive little series on drafting and construction, done by a professional dressmaker by the look of things:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqNHdw5Jt0A&list=PLc4R-E3ELC48HwBzVqRJp38hupjqGsaA4

The next vid is a post mortem on an expensive, Italian shirt. Coincidentally, I recently tried out the shoulder shape shown here. It's only something you'd do for a skinny yoke, its fronts right on the top of the shoulder. I didn't scoop as much as this shirt. I used both the edge and flat of a ruler to give me some guidelines as to how much scoop to use, and where to start the curve. It gives a better fit on the shoulders and I've adjusted my sloper accordingly for the next shirt I make.

https://youtu.be/yHMct-spd-U?si=tbaJotObKTGb7mJk

Note also that the buttonholes are half-and-halfs: lightly machined then overcast by hand. More uniform as a result. His channel is worth trawling through and subscribing to, incidentally, though it's mostly concerned with jackets.

Finally (for now), a more conventional cocktail cuff than the one posted earlier:

https://youtu.be/3br74DkEJy4?si=3yx3Wy0pjOUPx7ID

I like the way that the interfacing is done in two pieces, creating a natural hinge rather than done as a single piece, which can produce a lumpen fold (from what I've seen, I've never actually made one of these cuffs).

Here's my latest shirt. It's been a couple of years due to illness and work stuff.

I'm determined to match my checks and I'm basting the thing into submission!

If your wondering what sort of shirt this is, have a look above at the Parsons Shirt instructions I posted earlier.  One can't worry too much about the vertical placement. But Horizontal is everything. To get the vertical stripes in order would require cutting and removingand resewing, which would changethe shirt in other ways.

The last shot is 'one' of my collection of machines, mostly given to me. This is a Beautiful 1950s Singer. Almost perfect condition. The little needle I use for basting is a Regal size 12. Regal are the best; hard tough and ultra sharp.


(https://i.postimg.cc/KKWYZhN9/20240411-074107.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KKWYZhN9)

(https://i.postimg.cc/G47LQnZc/20240411-074145.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G47LQnZc)

(https://i.postimg.cc/qgspF39D/20240411-075123.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qgspF39D)

(https://i.postimg.cc/nsmLcwPp/20240411-075118.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nsmLcwPp)

(https://i.postimg.cc/68ns7Jtj/20240411-074417.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/68ns7Jtj)

Everything you always wanted to know about cocktail cuff design, but were afraid to ask (very good article):

https://www.bondsuits.com/a-guide-to-designing-a-cocktail-cuff/

Last year I attended the Fashion City exhibition in London and the cuffs of a late '60s Mr Fish shirt caught my eye. They're of the button-down variety, as mentioned in the above article. They could even be an example of a cocktail cuff designed for cufflinks (also mentioned). Difficult to tell because viewing was restricted and the lighting incredibly dark (hence the crappy photos). It could simply have been that the cuffs weren't buttoned and the buttons not visible ... or they'd fallen off at some point. Either way, these cuffs looked incredibly cool in the flesh:

https://flic.kr/p/2pJFvJS

https://flic.kr/p/2pJFvK3

Quote from: Schneiderfrei on April 11, 2024, 08:57:48 PMHere's my latest shirt.

Was the embroidery part of the cloth as bought, or did you add it by machine? Very unusual (in a good way).

Gerry, the texture is all part of the cloth. It's my guess that the cloth was sitting in the shop since the 80s.

I was told that it was German and all cotton. Well its not 'all' cotton, but its very well made and has a great handle.

It was $6 AUS permetre. ;)

Totally forgot about these two vids, covering detachable collars. For the Time Lords amongst us:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pDHW5R_Ef8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YuYMPngmSU

Auto-translate function may be required for the following, though one or two of the older videos don't allow it. This Portuguese-speaking tailor (I think he's Brazilian) has a channel dedicated to sharing his knowledge, mostly about shirt making. For example:

Cuffs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt4d_WXOOx8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN9HppPGXE8

https://www.youtube.com/live/EgLJxp7fsSk?si=f6wcwUIk0donpo5r&t=691

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCFYq-kg3xY

How to start making a tailored shirt:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXsAFyOfkOI

Not all of the vids are listed, strangely, but full channel here:

https://www.youtube.com/@AcademiadaAlfaiataria/videos

Playlists (including women's shirts/blouses) here:

https://www.youtube.com/@AcademiadaAlfaiataria/playlists

The 'live' section seems to host most of the longer vids:

https://www.youtube.com/@AcademiadaAlfaiataria/streams

Another vid from the Academia da Alfaiataria, showing a couple of interesting things. Firstly, when he edge stitches the yoke's seam with the back, everything (including seams) faces upwards except the yoke facing, which remains facing down, out of the way. The stitching only goes through the outer yoke. His justification for doing this is that polyester thread can be harsh against the skin, especially if it has melted a little from the iron:

https://www.youtube.com/live/eliUz5bLtNs?si=hfyZRvWqU2w95IBY&t=928

I use cotton thread, plus the compensating foot I use does a good job of creating an even edge stitch on both sides of the yoke, especially having pressed the seam correctly. However, it's easy to miss the inner facing in places with a conventional foot, so his method has some merit.

Second up, closing the side seams using a hemmer foot. The only video I've seen that explains this, though I posted the details in a past thread, here:

https://movsd.com/BespokeCutter/index.php?topic=1226.0

I had a real 'duh' moment watching his vid. Having passed everything through the hemmer, he then flattens the seam and passes it under the hemmer foot again, though without coupling it so that the seam only runs in the channel of the foot. This keeps it nicely aligned as it passes through to the needle for edge stitching/felling flat. When I was trying this technique, I changed feet to do the felling, simply edge stitching the hemmed seam. His way is far simpler and superior, as it's more accurate. Very clever; and so obvious now that I've seen it.

https://www.youtube.com/live/eliUz5bLtNs?si=gmwYiWvJbhPBafVZ&t=1612

I'm guessing that the foot is 3/16ths? Slightly less shirting real-estate used than with a quarter-inch foot.

I wasn't impressed with the pattern matching, however. Plus, if you look carefully you'll see that the horizontals on both sides of the sleeve take a slight diagonal turn at the stitch-line - leaving a slight kink, if you will. This is what hemmers do: they twist the cloth as it goes through, resulting in slightly wavy hems and seams.

This is very, very slow viewing (there's a lot of chit-chat), but I haven't seen this subject covered by anyone else. How to hand stitch monograms on shirts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSKJ7a4iELU

The first part shows the techniques and has plenty of tips, the second part shows the dot-to-dot connections needed to cover the whole alphabet:

https://www.youtube.com/live/wSKJ7a4iELU?si=-Mf4OyV7lPvN2eIo&t=4026

In this vid he shows how to apply the monogram to a shirt pocket:

https://www.youtube.com/live/H5W24EXO2GY?si=oajzi2Kd8RfxXLFC&t=1553

If you're all wondering why I'm obsessively posting all these links, it's because I need a single reference point for them myself! (It would be very time consuming trying to find a lot of these vids a second time round).

It seems many of DPC's materials still available on here:
https://www2.quartoknows.com/page/shirtmaking-workbook (https://www2.quartoknows.com/page/shirtmaking-workbook)

Quote from: Gerry on April 15, 2024, 10:03:36 PMI'm guessing that the foot is 3/16ths? Slightly less shirting real-estate used than with a quarter-inch foot.

This is a lengthier, clearer video demonstrating the hemming technique to do the long seams:

https://www.youtube.com/live/ybtlk2Md8rE?si=Z_fEM_rUZIRpqwJE&t=1343

He uses a 3mm (1/8th) foot. This width is often seen in high-end dress shirts, but I'm more of a casual shirt chap and my 1/8th Singer foot doesn't take kindly to the thickness of cloth that I often use. Fine shirting only, though I imagine that hemmer feet for industrial machines can take thicker cloth?

I mistakenly thought that he fed the cloth under the foot to do the felling, utilising its channel. However, he partially couples the seam into the foot. Very clever, though I'm not sure this wouldn't cause a slight ruck in the seam (as happens with felling feet when doing this). The stitching certainly isn't symmetrical - second, felled line is more inwards from the edge compared to the seam line ... or vice versa (difficult to tell which was the front and which was the back).

No available subtitles, therefore auto translate doesn't work for this vid. However, it demonstrates the typical shirt-maker's way of doing felled seams more clearly than the Emma Willis video posted earlier; and it's easy to see what's going on:

https://youtu.be/CTTD0Y-E6GM?si=REgNn8XRMNqePu1_&t=203

In this case a sleeve is being sewn in flat. Sleeve underneath, offset the armhole by a seam's width, fold over the sleeve seam to overlap it, but pull it over slightly to the left of the needle (a hair's breadth more than a quarter in this case) so that its edge gets caught in the stitching. This not only creates the main seam, but it acts as a 'holding stitch', keeping the edges of the fold from puckering or flaring-out when felling, due to the action of the dogs/pressure of the foot.

For precision, a quarter inch foot with a built in guide is being used. These are easily found for all types of machine. Just look for a 'quarter inch quilting foot'.

Having tried both methods, I prefer setting in sleeves already sewn, rather than doing the cuff to hem (or vice versa) method of closing the long seams. If the sleeve is cut correctly, everything aligns perfectly and it's almost like sewing a straight line.

I've also switched from top stitching on the right side (as shown above), using the blade of the foot for a guide, to edge stitching with a compensating foot. When felling, it's typical to tension the cloth at the sides. If pulled too much, the seam can be displaced to the side of the needle, making it easy to miss its edge. The downside of sewing 'blind'.

Quote from: Gerry on April 19, 2024, 04:08:08 AMFor precision, a quarter inch foot with a built in guide is being used. These are easily found for all types of machine. Just look for a 'quarter inch quilting foot'.

I watched a fair chunk of his longer video showing the complete construction of some shirts. He actually uses an array of compensating feet. Quilting feet work just fine, however (as I can attest).

The vid to follow contains a few things that caught my eye. Firstly, he demonstrates a couple of folding techniques. One for chamfered cuffs, which I hadn't seen before (everyone seems to trim their seams), the other for collar-point turning.

https://youtu.be/HaEO7VlbAk4?si=zc3GU1xhDFh4dZKc&t=492

I had come across two-stage collar-point folding via DPC's Craftsy video series; and a three-stage method is also demonstrated in one of his books, However, it's along the lines of a conventional mitred corner and is fiddly with narrow seams. In the above vid the tailor demonstrates a more manageable method IMO. The side seam is folded first, then he forms a diagonal at its top before folding down the top seam. I should think that grading the seams at the points would help reduce bulk.

The other thing that caught my eye was the shaping of the collar. 'Regular' (not all do it) shaping is seen in this informative video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBt7Q2EKbp4

Something I hadn't seen before, however, is demonstrated here:

https://youtu.be/HaEO7VlbAk4?si=J7lnOS25KUDDWun4&t=968

After top stitching the collar, he flips it over and angles it to close the opening, thereby reducing the width of the undercollar and giving more to the upper facing. This gives the completed collar a natural, downwards curve along its width. Note that he feeds the cloth ahead of the foot, to prevent creep.

Another vid popped up in my feed today. It shows a method of doing hems that's almost identical to how I do them. Certainly the concept is the same.

The first fold of the hem is created at 3/8ths, but stitched at a quarter. This is folded in turn by a quarter, but the first stitch line is rolled to the back by about a 1/16th. This second fold is then stitched at a quarter to complete the hem:

https://youtu.be/BH8FKnvWWSk?si=AMGdZC11hZNVNAFx&t=492

I press each stage and use an edge guide. This gives greater accuracy, but pretty good results can be achieved 'on the fly' if speed is of the essence. I also don't bother to cut away superfluous cloth. I haven't found it to be a problem. Because I press accurately, and use an edge guide, I top stitch from the right side. Here you can see a snap of one of my own shirt hems:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194911850@N05/53172913103/in/dateposted/

A quarter inch hem is pretty fiddly to press and get a nice, even result. Which is why the first fold is 3/8ths: it's relatively easy to press. As with the felling vids posted earlier, the first run of stiches is a 'holding stitch', securing the raw edge, which (with only a quarter of an inch fold) would otherwise be free to splay out when securing the second fold of the hem. This isn't really an issue with any hem over a quarter of an inch, but is with narrow hems (in my experience).

What I like about this method is that you don't get the twisting ('roping') often associated with hemmer feet. It's easy to keep vertical stripes in line, too. Very clean in that respect.

Very good article on point turning by DPC:

https://www.seamwork.com/articles/how-to-make-a-perfect-point

Quote from: Chanterelle on April 07, 2024, 02:14:48 AMAs a more personal request, I'm looking to hear/see/read side seam and shoulder seam for inset sleeves construction techniques--specifically re: lapped, felled, or frenched seams.

French seam technique shown here (auto translate may be required):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2kPwFi09Lg

Setting in a sleeve like this might look fiddly, but it really isn't. As I mentioned earlier, the seams line up, rather than opposing each other in places (which is the case with sewing sleeves flat). It's almost as easy as sewing a straight line, we just have to remember to rotate the body occasionally as we go, so that it doesn't twist as we follow the line of the armhole. Not a fast process, but I much prefer it.

Although I don't use French seams much, they are very elegant and accurate (especially if sewn with an edge guide). The only reason they're not used in ready to wear and a lot of bespoke, is because they take longer.

I've always been fond of french seams. They are simple and diminish the appearance of stitching, which I like, plus they are more flexible and don't stiffen the garment.

The aforementioned Patrick Grant has a new book out: The Savile Row Suit - The Art of Bespoke Tailoring. It features a whole section on shirt making "following the method of Lizzie Willett". She heads the team for Emma Willis, so it's essentially that firm's method.

As with many bespoke shirt companies, their 'time is money' philosophy means that much of their approach isn't the best or most elegant way of doing things. Nevertheless, a complete method is outlined here; and for those in a rush, it will be quick ... so it's worth mentioning.

I do wonder why anyone bothers to write tailoring books in this day and age of visual media; which is a far better way to convey information of this kind, IMO. As with many books before it, some of the procedures are a little cryptic. I had to re-read passages a number of times until I understood what was going on. It's not really a 'how to tailor' book, but more of a instruction guide to those who already have tailoring experience. A 'this is how to do it the Savile Row way' guide, featuring sections on trouser making, waistcoat making and shirt making (as well as coat making, of course). There's no drafting info, BTW, this book is solely focused on construction.

A nice addition to the bookshelf, but only if you have some experience under your belt already IMO. Otherwise you'll be struggling to understand a lot of the instructions (which are kept brief).

https://uk.gestalten.com/products/the-savile-row-suit-the-art-of-hand-tailoring-savile-row-patrick-grant

Quote from: Gerry on April 09, 2024, 10:40:29 PMhttps://flic.kr/p/2pJ7x7z

That you are able to match so well through the flat fell seam is pretty incredible (assuming its not a french seam)

Quote from: Gerry on April 15, 2024, 10:03:36 PMSecond up, closing the side seams using a hemmer foot. The only video I've seen that explains this, though I posted the details in a past thread, here:

https://movsd.com/BespokeCutter/index.php?topic=1226.0

I had a real 'duh' moment watching his vid. Having passed everything through the hemmer, he then flattens the seam and passes it under the hemmer foot again, though without coupling it so that the seam only runs in the channel of the foot. This keeps it nicely aligned as it passes through to the needle for edge stitching/felling flat. When I was trying this technique, I changed feet to do the felling, simply edge stitching the hemmed seam. His way is far simpler and superior, as it's more accurate. Very clever; and so obvious now that I've seen it.

https://www.youtube.com/live/eliUz5bLtNs?si=gmwYiWvJbhPBafVZ&t=1612

The problem I've had with this technique is that since I attach the sleeves first, I cannot ever get the sleeve/body seam through the hemmer foot, no matter which kind of hemmer foot I use (I've tried them all I think)

Quote from: Gerry on May 02, 2024, 10:57:02 PMhttps://uk.gestalten.com/products/the-savile-row-suit-the-art-of-hand-tailoring-savile-row-patrick-grant

Definitely adding this to my shelf! Thanks for the rec

Quote from: Chanterelle on June 10, 2024, 02:58:54 AMThe problem I've had with this technique is that since I attach the sleeves first, I cannot ever get the sleeve/body seam through the hemmer foot, no matter which kind of hemmer foot I use (I've tried them all I think)

Whenever I've seen hemmed seams, the sleeves have always been completed separately then set in. There's too much bulk for a hemmer foot to cope with if trying to close the sleeve and body seams in one, continuous run.

I mentioned the Mike Maldonado trick earlier, whereby you decouple the hemmer coming up to areas too thick to pass through the foot, and recouple the cloth just after the bulk. You 'simply' come back to the unstitched area(s) after sewing the majority of the seam/hem, tuck in the loose cloth to complete the hem and edge stitch it in place with a normal foot. In reality, it's pretty fiddly due to the narrowness of seams/hems and results aren't great (though you might find it easier that I did).

I'd urge you to give set-in sleeves a try, because they're so much easier to sew. You're not fighting  differences in shape as happens when sewing sleeves into the armhole flat. As I mentioned earlier, if cut correctly the armhole and sleeve seams align nicely, almost like a straight line, which makes sewing a lot easier. Just keep rotating the sleeve as you sew, to stop it getting twisted up and restricting movement and view.

Quote from: Gerry on April 20, 2024, 06:25:47 PMThe vid to follow contains a few things that caught my eye. Firstly, he demonstrates a couple of folding techniques. One for chamfered cuffs, which I hadn't seen before (everyone seems to trim their seams), the other for collar-point turning.

https://youtu.be/HaEO7VlbAk4?si=zc3GU1xhDFh4dZKc&t=492

I had come across two-stage collar-point folding via DPC's Craftsy video series; and a three-stage method is also demonstrated in one of his books, However, it's along the lines of a conventional mitred corner and is fiddly with narrow seams. In the above vid the tailor demonstrates a more manageable method IMO. The side seam is folded first, then he forms a diagonal at its top before folding down the top seam. I should think that grading the seams at the points would help reduce bulk.

I gave this method a try. Very fiddly to do with a quarter inch seam. However, what I tend to do with my undercollars is increase their seam width to half an inch at the points only. This naturally grades the seams at the points and also gives one a little cloth to grab onto when folding. I have to say, the above method worked beautifully (with extra seam allowance at the undercollar's points). My old way of folding was a bit hit-or-miss, but I achieved perfect points with the above method, as can be seen in my latest Italian Collar shirt:

https://flic.kr/p/2pWnJPG

I changed the order slightly, but it's still the same thing. Copied and pasted from my notes:

Fold over the top/horizontal seams of the collar first and finger press, running a fingernail over the fold to give a definite crease. Now diagonally fold the corner, just outside the vertical, side seam's stitch line. Fold and pull in the side seam so that its stitching is just rolled over to the inside of the collar and visible on top. This not only keeps the fold at the tip of the collar tight, but also allows the seam to relax/expand back into shape after bagging out, rather than trying to cram it into a tight area.

Bring a haemostat right into the corner of this fold, its length in line with the stitch line of the collar's side seam, and clamp. Rotate the haemostat in to the collar to keep tension along the fold. Holding the haemostat with the other hand, release it and place a finger into the collar, bringing it directly beneath the jaws. Applying slight pressure with the thumb to maintain the pinch, roll and pull the stitching of the seam slightly inwards. Bag out, wiggling the haemostat if necessary to bring out the point (but don't overdo it).

Quote from: Gerry on June 10, 2024, 04:26:17 AMI'd urge you to give set-in sleeves a try, because they're so much easier to sew. You're not fighting  differences in shape as happens when sewing sleeves into the armhole flat. As I mentioned earlier, if cut correctly the armhole and sleeve seams align nicely, almost like a straight line, which makes sewing a lot easier. Just keep rotating the sleeve as you sew, to stop it getting twisted up and restricting movement and view.

I'll definitely give this a try but will have to alter the pattern a touch to shift the arm seam forward yeah?

Have tried Maldonado's approach to no avail...more mess than it's worth imo and the seam isn't as pleasant to look at

Quote from: Chanterelle on June 10, 2024, 06:20:59 AMI'll definitely give this a try but will have to alter the pattern a touch to shift the arm seam forward yeah?

Yes, as described in one of my previous posts, shave a bit off the front seam and add it to the back's. When the sleeve is sewn in, its seam is offset, being a little more forward than the side seam. The two should be clear of each other so how much of an offset you need depends on the width of your seams. I use a 3/8ths offset for quarter inch seams. 

I was told to sew the sleeve on first, and then, close the sideseam and sleeve length seam in one go. This was all hand sewing. No machine.
Since you are using a sewing machine or overcaster/serger the needle or foot does not go high enough. These can, most likely, be adjusted, so you can go over the high places where seams get thick. Same technique as hand sewing. Sometimes hand sewing is faster.
Back a couple of hundred years ago, since the sleeve seam is longer than the scye, you decide where you want the ease and from that point on you push with your thumb an 1/8 inch extra per stitch until end of ease stitches. Beginners learn to take two threads and sew them, about half an inch apart, through the part of ease and pull the threads the to amount to hold them properly together. Then baste it to the scye to sew that seam later. There is a name for this, but I don't remember.
After the seam is finished the hem is finished and the bottoms of the are sleeves (plackets and cuffs) are finished.

The long way round of doing things:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5-rLWYM7Xc&t=1421s

If only some of the bespoke firms took this amount of care and attention in their work. Whenever you see footage of their workshops there's barely an iron in sight ... and it's reflected in their results, frankly.

I just thought of Mike Maldonado, he used to run a course on shirt construction.

I signe up for a bit. The course reflected his intensive, professional production model,but it was really good to see.

Gerry, so perfect a buttonhole, reminds me of Gramontoto's efforts.  Haven't heard from him on the forum lately.

A very clever use of silk organza to aid the shaping of rounded pocket-corners. About 2 mins in:

Quote from: Gerry on September 26, 2024, 01:33:37 AMA very clever use of silk organza to aid the shaping of rounded pocket-corners. About 2 mins in:

I'm actually more intrigued by their use of pallet strapping as an edge stitching guide.

Been told that some threads desolve in some kinds of laundry soaps.

Quote from: DrLang on September 26, 2024, 08:44:30 AMI'm actually more intrigued by their use of pallet strapping as an edge stitching guide.

It's mainly used to provide traction for the feed-dogs. You'll note that they use a compensating foot for the edge stitching. Because of the gapped 'step' to the left of such feet, there's not much for the dogs to push against when fabric is thin, hence the use of a strip. Strips are also useful when commencing sewing from the edge/start of seams (no need to begin a little further down, then back-tack). Again, they provide traction: something for the back of the dogs to push against, in this scenario. But, as you mentioned, they can also act as a guide. Pretty useful things all-round.

Things are less problematic with industrial machines, but I have a compensating foot for my old Singer and it's very temperamental unless I use pallet strapping for at least part of a run - there's a lot of 'jogging on the spot' by the needle, otherwise, and/or skipped stitches when layers are thicker (the strapping helps to compress them). I found a long strip of the stuff in a neighbour's recycling bin while out for a walk, gave it a bleach to clean it (just in case) and was good to go.

Quote from: Gerry on September 26, 2024, 01:33:37 AMA very clever use of silk organza to aid the shaping of rounded pocket-corners. About 2 mins in:

This is clever. I use a wide stitch to gather the fabric around the pattern piece before ironing...produces good results

Quote from: Chanterelle on April 07, 2024, 02:14:48 AMAs a more personal request, I'm looking to hear/see/read side seam and shoulder seam for inset sleeves construction techniques--specifically re: lapped, felled, or frenched seams.

I dare say someone else has thought of this before me, but I came up with an alternative method of doing double-lapped seams and it worked perfectly first time. It's only suitable for straight/straightish seams, but the advantage over the conventional, single-needle approach is that both pieces are to the left to begin with; which makes it easy to do on a non-industrial machine where the arm isn't as wide. It also pre-forms the first fold with the initial stitch run, which makes forming the second fold a lot easier. Pasted from my notes:

A lapped seam requires 1.5 times the intended seam allowance. A quarter inch seam requires 3/8ths, for example, and we will use this. Right sides together, offset the top piece by a quarter and fold the under piece over it by a quarter. First, however, we must decide in which direction the seam's outer, raised edge is to face. It will go in the opposite direction to whichever piece is on top: front on top of underside creates a backwards facing lap; underside on top creates a forward facing lap.

Relax the tension on the top thread, increase the stitch length and sew a machine baste down the middle at 1/8th. Don't backstitch, this acts as a temporary, holding-stitch only. The stitching doesn't have to be that accurate, but the folding and alignment does. The human eye is very good at judging parallel lines, however, so this can be done on the fly (no need to pin/baste).

After securing the two pieces, fold the top one to the right, over the edge of the seam we've just created. Finger-press - or press the whole seam at the board for the neatest results. Return stitch length and tension to where they were and edge stitch each raised fold of the lapped seam on both sides. A compensating foot gives the best results.

Remove the machine baste from the middle of the seam. It will slip out quite easily due to sewing with relaxed tension. Optional: reach into the end of the seam and pull out the top thread, using tweezers if necessary. It should slide out as a single thread.

Finally, wet the seam and press to revive the cloth (it will probably be pock-marked from the baste-stitch we put in).

Quote from: Gerry on December 15, 2024, 01:49:56 AMI dare say someone else has thought of this before me, but I came up with an alternative method of doing double-lapped seams and it worked perfectly first time.

This sounds like a great method, and not dissimilar from the flat felled method I use for the side seam and set in sleeve.

For the joining the sleeve to the body, I first press over a healthy 3/8" to the right side of the sleeve. Then, right sides together, I pin center notches and front and back pitch points of the sleeve and body, tucking the body under the folded over portion of the sleeve so that the edge of the body meets the crease. I stitch with a 3/8" seam allowance using either a compensating or guide foot. As I stitch, I gradually tuck the body into the folded portion so to accommodate the curve of the side seam...you can't do this all at once, hence why I only pin the notches together. I start from either the front or back, depending on which direction allows all of the fabric to sit left of needle.

Once the first seam is stitched, the shirt is turned so right sides are facing up. The seam is pushed to the body. It is then top-stitched at 5/16" from the right side with a compensating foot. If done correctly, the stitch should just grab the edge of the felled seam, making a clean inside and evenly stitched outside. If the initial stitch is larger than 5/16", especially around the cap of the sleeve (as usually happens)

I've seen that most people do the topstitching from the inside and I just can't abide. Unless the felled seam is done perfectly even, then the topstitching will be an inconsistent width along the length of the seam, which I think is entirely unacceptable. In my experience, given the convex curve of the sleeve and the concave curve of the armhole, the flat felled seam is very very rarely perfectly even through the length of the seam. Maybe user error, but imo topstitching should be done from the right side regardless.

I've used this same method but first securing the body and sleeve with a machine baste. This makes for a cleaner felled seam

The same technique is used for closing the side seam, wrist to hem. Except, for this seam, I finger fold the flat felled seam as I sew it and stitch at 1/8", top stitching at 3/16" Since there are no real curves to worry about, this method works just fine on the fly.

On another note, The Caffeinated Tailor on youtube recently uploaded a 'bespoke shirt construction video' in which he absolutely butchers the collar construction (leaves the interlining visible for some reason, rather than adding a third piece of cloth in between interlining and collar stay portion) and the sleeve and collar attaching...he top stitches from the inside of the shirt, leaving undoubtedly an ugly and inconsistent top stitch on the outside of the fabric. Shame, I otherwise appreciate his work. His previous shirt making video is better btw but involves a lot of hand felling and whatnot...not really practical for production and pricing shirts reasonably.

still haven't figured out how to get clean and consistent results both inside and out top stitching collar and cuffs. What I do now is attach the collar from the outside, then turn the collar to the inside. I'll then fold under the seam allowance and glue or thread baste the collar down to cover the initial stitch. I then top stitch all around from the outside. This yields good results but how well the inside turns out depends on how spot on the glue or thread baste is. So sometimes the 'top stitching' on the inside is a bit uneven, as in there are in spots more and less fabric hanging down from the top stitch. Attention to detail is a killer...feel like if its not perfect all around i just can't be charging what I do for shirts...

Quote from: Greger on June 10, 2024, 09:17:47 AMI was told to sew the sleeve on first, and then, close the sideseam and sleeve length seam in one go. This was all hand sewing. No machine.
Since you are using a sewing machine or overcaster/serger the needle or foot does not go high enough. These can, most likely, be adjusted, so you can go over the high places where seams get thick. Same technique as hand sewing. Sometimes hand sewing is faster.
Back a couple of hundred years ago, since the sleeve seam is longer than the scye, you decide where you want the ease and from that point on you push with your thumb an 1/8 inch extra per stitch until end of ease stitches. Beginners learn to take two threads and sew them, about half an inch apart, through the part of ease and pull the threads the to amount to hold them properly together. Then baste it to the scye to sew that seam later. There is a name for this, but I don't remember.
After the seam is finished the hem is finished and the bottoms of the are sleeves (plackets and cuffs) are finished.

The name for "worked in" shirt sleeves is drawnwork or drawn seaming, I believe. It requires more skill than needle pleating, used in womens'clothing.

Cheerio, Hendrick

Quote from: Chanterelle on January 02, 2025, 01:31:20 AMstill haven't figured out how to get clean and consistent results both inside and out top stitching collar and cuffs.

It is tricky. I usually just machine or hand sew the outer piece and fell the inside edge, by hand. Catching the whole piece with machine top stitching requires very close concentration, obsessive cutting and lining up, and lots of practice.

Quote from: Hendrick on January 07, 2025, 08:59:56 AM

Quote from: Greger on June 10, 2024, 09:17:47 AMI was told to sew the sleeve on first, and then, close the sideseam and sleeve length seam in one go. This was all hand sewing. No machine.
Since you are using a sewing machine or overcaster/serger the needle or foot does not go high enough. These can, most likely, be adjusted, so you can go over the high places where seams get thick. Same technique as hand sewing. Sometimes hand sewing is faster.
Back a couple of hundred years ago, since the sleeve seam is longer than the scye, you decide where you want the ease and from that point on you push with your thumb an 1/8 inch extra per stitch until end of ease stitches. Beginners learn to take two threads and sew them, about half an inch apart, through the part of ease and pull the threads the to amount to hold them properly together. Then baste it to the scye to sew that seam later. There is a name for this, but I don't remember.
After the seam is finished the hem is finished and the bottoms of the are sleeves (plackets and cuffs) are finished.

The name for "worked in" shirt sleeves is drawnwork or drawn seaming, I believe. It requires more skill than needle pleating, used in womens'clothing.

Cheerio, Hendrick

"Gathering" with two threads. Mom did this.
Drawn work. Not sure I heard of this. May have.

Quote from: Chanterelle on January 02, 2025, 01:31:20 AMstill haven't figured out how to get clean and consistent results both inside and out top stitching collar and cuffs.

The problem is, a lot of the time we compare our shirts with those of ready-to-wear, and factory standards get higher and higher every year. Larger bespoke firms are still using workshop methods of a few decades ago. Meanwhile, the largest, high-end RTW factories (at least those in Europe) are almost fully automated. They have machines that top-stitch collars, cuffs and plackets. No human involvement other than loading the machines.  The cutting of cloth is done by a computer-controlled laser, so pattern matching is spot on; and pockets are positioned and sewn by a computer-controlled machine. The end results can look immaculate.

OK, the main joining is still done by humans, but even then specialist machines, or attachments, are used at every stage. Periodically I look round clothing shops and even mid-range stuff is looking better than it did 30 years ago.

It can break your heart. Other than an advantage over fit, and the ability to pre-shrink cloth (not that the bespoke firms do that - a pet peeve of mine) how do we compete? I spend an inordinate time on shirt pockets, utilising tearaway stabiliser etc, just to get the sides as straight as those on a (good) RTW example. They can do the job in seconds.

When it comes to stitching evenly on both sides of cuffs and collars, the best you can hope for when machining is not to roll the seams to the underside. Keep them even, press, then baste the edge to prevent rolling when machining. However, you still have to expect some difference. The main thing is to get it looking nice on the display side.

Quote from: Gerry on January 08, 2025, 01:31:10 AM

Quote from: Chanterelle on January 02, 2025, 01:31:20 AMstill haven't figured out how to get clean and consistent results both inside and out top stitching collar and cuffs.

The problem is, a lot of the time we compare our shirts with those of ready-to-wear, and factory standards get higher and higher every year. Larger bespoke firms are still using workshop methods of a few decades ago. Meanwhile, the largest, high-end RTW factories (at least those in Europe) are almost fully automated. They have machines that top-stitch collars, cuffs and plackets. No human involvement other than loading the machines.  The cutting of cloth is done by a computer-controlled laser, so pattern matching is spot on; and pockets are positioned and sewn by a computer-controlled machine. The end results can look immaculate.

OK, the main joining is still done by humans, but even then specialist machines, or attachments, are used at every stage. Periodically I look round clothing shops and even mid-range stuff is looking better than it did 30 years ago.

It can break your heart. Other than an advantage over fit, and the ability to pre-shrink cloth (not that the bespoke firms do that - a pet peeve of mine) how do we compete? I spend an inordinate time on shirt pockets, utilising tearaway stabiliser etc, just to get the sides as straight as those on a (good) RTW example. They can do the job in seconds.

When it comes to stitching evenly on both sides of cuffs and collars, the best you can hope for when machining is not to roll the seams to the underside. Keep them even, press, then baste the edge to prevent rolling when machining. However, you still have to expect some difference. The main thing is to get it looking nice on the display side.

Agreed, but... There are curves ad forms that these automated machines and folding attachments cannot do, so often the patters are adjusted to allow for automation, a downer...

My advice; use spray on starch when you prepare collars, cuffs and gussets, you'll be surprised at the results. And make "old style" cutting shapes for gussets, pockets etc. that you use a lot in a light gauge aluminum sheet that you cant cut with old scissors or a stanley knife. These are perfect to press allowances around! It works great.


Cheers, Hendrick

A second vote for starch. I use it all the time in shirt-making.

However, be sure to place some grease proof paper over your ironing board (if used) when spraying. Not only does it protect the board, but excess collects on the surface of the paper. You can mop it up with the piece you're starching, thereby economising on starch (you don't have to spray so heavily). Then leave the starch to settle. The amount of people who immediately iron after spraying annoys me, the starch needs time to impregnate the cloth.

Also use a pressing cloth when drying out the starch, to protect the iron. Just place a dry iron over everything (leave the grease proof paper in place) for about ten to fifteen seconds and leave it. Steam will eventually start to rise, so you know when it's time to take off the iron.

Quote from: Hendrick on January 08, 2025, 04:46:26 AMAnd make "old style" cutting shapes for gussets, pockets etc. that you use a lot in a light gauge aluminum sheet that you cant cut with old scissors or a stanley knife. These are perfect to press allowances around! It works great.

Do you use a guillotine to cut the aluminium, Hendrick? I like the sound of this.

Quote from: Gerry on January 08, 2025, 05:22:07 AM

Quote from: Hendrick on January 08, 2025, 04:46:26 AMAnd make "old style" cutting shapes for gussets, pockets etc. that you use a lot in a light gauge aluminum sheet that you cant cut with old scissors or a stanley knife. These are perfect to press allowances around! It works great.

Do you use a guillotine to cut the aluminium, Hendrick? I like the sound of this.

;D

Umm no, the "t" after "can cut" was a typo! Scusi per la confizione! Just use an old pair of scissors and for straight forms use a cutting ruler and stanley knife and if necessary soften the edges with fine sanding paper, ddoes the trick.

Cheerio, Hendrick

Quote from: Hendrick on January 08, 2025, 06:54:08 AM

Quote from: Gerry on January 08, 2025, 05:22:07 AM

Quote from: Hendrick on January 08, 2025, 04:46:26 AMAnd make "old style" cutting shapes for gussets, pockets etc. that you use a lot in a light gauge aluminum sheet that you cant cut with old scissors or a stanley knife. These are perfect to press allowances around! It works great.

Do you use a guillotine to cut the aluminium, Hendrick? I like the sound of this.

;D

Umm no, the "t" after "can cut" was a typo! Scusi per la confizione! Just use an old pair of scissors and for straight forms use a cutting ruler and stanley knife and if necessary soften the edges with fine sanding paper, ddoes the trick.

Cheerio, Hendrick

Cool. Do you happen to know the thickness of the aluminium?

Quote from: Gerry on January 08, 2025, 07:06:42 AM

Quote from: Hendrick on January 08, 2025, 06:54:08 AM

Quote from: Gerry on January 08, 2025, 05:22:07 AM

Quote from: Hendrick on January 08, 2025, 04:46:26 AMAnd make "old style" cutting shapes for gussets, pockets etc. that you use a lot in a light gauge aluminum sheet that you cant cut with old scissors or a stanley knife. These are perfect to press allowances around! It works great.

Do you use a guillotine to cut the aluminium, Hendrick? I like the sound of this.

;D

Umm no, the "t" after "can cut" was a typo! Scusi per la confizione! Just use an old pair of scissors and for straight forms use a cutting ruler and stanley knife and if necessary soften the edges with fine sanding paper, ddoes the trick.

Cheerio, Hendrick

Cool. Do you happen to know the thickness of the aluminium?

Yes 0,8 mm...

Quote from: Hendrick on January 08, 2025, 07:10:41 AMYes 0,8 mm...

What about using thin plywood and a scroll saw?

Quote from: jruley on January 08, 2025, 08:28:06 AM

Quote from: Hendrick on January 08, 2025, 07:10:41 AMYes 0,8 mm...

What about using thin plywood and a scroll saw?

Although that's a nice idea, the problem with wood is that it can warp, even if it's a ply. Especially the case when steam is involved (bearing in mind it would be used as a pressing template). It has to be thin too, because the shirting has to fold over the template. It would probably be too fragile for that reason.

I actually own a guillotine, so using aluminium really appeals to me. I'll get a better edge than the card I use for pressing.

Quote from: Gerry on January 08, 2025, 09:12:41 AMI actually own a guillotine...

I hope what you own is what Americans call a "sheet metal shear".  Over here the term "guillotine" means the original apparatus for exterminating political enemies.  Though the principle of operation is the same  :) ...

Quote from: jruley on January 08, 2025, 09:33:45 AM

Quote from: Gerry on January 08, 2025, 09:12:41 AMI actually own a guillotine...

I hope what you own is what Americans call a "sheet metal shear".  Over here the term "guillotine" means the original apparatus for exterminating political enemies.  Though the principle of operation is the same  :) ...

Works well on spouses, too...

Quote from: jruley on January 08, 2025, 09:33:45 AM

Quote from: Gerry on January 08, 2025, 09:12:41 AMI actually own a guillotine...

I hope what you own is what Americans call a "sheet metal shear".  Over here the term "guillotine" means the original apparatus for exterminating political enemies.  Though the principle of operation is the same  :) ...

It has both meanings over here.

In Australia a Guillotine generally refers to a large bladed intrument for cutting sheet paper.

Quote from: Schneiderfrei on January 08, 2025, 09:45:06 AMIn Australia a Guillotine generally refers to a large bladed intrument for cutting sheet paper.

same here, but it can also refer to sheet-metal cutters. The one I have looks exactly the same as a paper guillotine, but was designed for cutting fiberglass circuit board. It'll cut aluminium no problem.

Quote from: Gerry on January 08, 2025, 09:48:53 AM

Quote from: Schneiderfrei on January 08, 2025, 09:45:06 AMIn Australia a Guillotine generally refers to a large bladed intrument for cutting sheet paper.

same here, but it can also refer to sheet-metal cutters. The one I have looks exactly the same as a paper guillotine, but was designed for cutting fiberglass circuit board. It'll cut aluminium no problem.

Now that you mention it, we used to use phenol based sheets to cut press forms and the like. It came in weird colours but worked perfectly and was heat resistant to 120 degrees celcius. It was also used as stitch guides as in the pics. I can find it nowhere these days... The pale ones are more like thick cellophane but equally good; the are fly form stich guides.
(https://i.postimg.cc/8F6BN0qB/IMG-0146.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8F6BN0qB)

(https://i.postimg.cc/8F6BN0qB/IMG-0146.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8F6BN0qB)

Cheers, Hendrick

Here are the other ones
(https://i.postimg.cc/MMBs3T6w/IMG-0145.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MMBs3T6w)

Quote from: HendrickYes 0,8 mm...

I was just wondering Hendrick, doesn't overheating of the aluminium present a problem? I can imagine my fingers getting burnt doing this!  :D

Aluminium cools down fast.. Plus, you can always laty a clpper (large version) on it to fix.

You can also put screw some small cabinet knobs on your forms (flat screws!) like they do in the industry fo casual multipocketed stuff and the like

Cheers, hendrick

Quote from: Hendrick on January 09, 2025, 05:05:04 AMAluminium cools down fast.. Plus, you can always laty a clpper (large version) on it to fix.

You can also put screw some small cabinet knobs on your forms (flat screws!) like they do in the industry fo casual multipocketed stuff and the like

Cheers, hendrick

Thanks Hendrick. No idea what 'laty a clpper' means ( :) ) but I like the idea of screwing on a knob (if necessary). I found a good deal on eBay and will order tonight (not that I'll be making any shirts this month!).

I use an old clapper, a firm underarm long that I sometimes use on pressforms. I will also not be making shirts this month, im finishing a children's sample range...

Cheers, Hendrick

Quote from: Hendrick on January 09, 2025, 08:33:25 AMI use an old clapper, a firm underarm long that I sometimes use on pressforms. I will also not be making shirts this month, im finishing a children's sample range...

Cheers, Hendrick

Ah, I use a clapper anyway, so I should be alright. Good to know, thanks again.

Quote from: Schneiderfrei on January 07, 2025, 09:47:20 AMIt is tricky. I usually just machine or hand sew the outer piece and fell the inside edge, by hand. Catching the whole piece with machine top stitching requires very close concentration, obsessive cutting and lining up, and lots of practice.

Obsessive, close concentration, and lots of practice is right. https://youtu.be/zjZoMbGbGDQ?si=BDmBWDI8w2wRWh4l&t=1100 Shows a good method, one I've used, though its a pain in the *** to be honest...requires meticulous checking of the underside, and stitching with the majority of the cloth to the right, unless you've got a left edged compensating foot. But even still, without basting its difficult to get consistent results the length of the stitch.

Now, I tend to baste the underside in place before top stitching...hand felling is always a good option, but since I'm barely making minimum wage as is on shirts (when accounting for shopping for fabric, consultation with client, drafting, cutting, and making up), adding time to hand felling is not ideal. This is why I'm still hunting for those holy grail techniques that are easy, effective, and quick...the unholiest of trilemmas...pick two but never all three. Hell, I'd settle for just quick and effective

Quote from: Hendrick on January 08, 2025, 10:01:47 AMHere are the other ones
(https://i.postimg.cc/MMBs3T6w/IMG-0145.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MMBs3T6w)

These hold up to pressing heat? Have thought about having some 3-d printed but then realized the plastic would just melt.

Absolutely love the aluminum idea...was thinking about doing the exact thing myself actually, then sanding down the edges. But of course someone else thought of it well before I did!

Question:

Do people use rotary cutters to cut out the smaller elements, like collars, cuffs, collar stands, plackets? For precision that is? And do you tend to use fabric pens or just a really sharp chalk?

I use scissors for everything but have been coming around to the idea of rotary cutters on the small stuff.

Quote from: Chanterelle on January 28, 2025, 11:14:27 PMDo people use rotary cutters to cut out the smaller elements, like collars, cuffs, collar stands, plackets? For precision that is? And do you tend to use fabric pens or just a really sharp chalk?

I've tried those rotary cutters intended for home sewers. The blades blunt very quickly and I find them fiddly to use. Industrial cutters are much better, but unless you're setting up a factory for mass production, not really a practical (or affordable) solution. Bespoke shirtmakers often use specialist knives (38:40 mark):

https://youtu.be/h4_bEZ7tdqI?si=RdAQLXLsnXcsP_BA&t=2317

... though a bit of an extravagance unless you're cutting multiple pieces all at once. Personally, I use shears.

As for marking, what I use depends on the colour of the cloth. If dark, then chalk. Otherwise, graphite from a retractable pencil or ink from an erasable pen. If marking on visible parts of the cloth - the pocket position, for example - then erasable pen can leave faint, white marks ... and obviously graphite is going to leave a mark. So chalk only for those areas.

Quote from: Chanterelle on January 28, 2025, 11:14:27 PMDo people use rotary cutters to cut out the smaller elements, like collars, cuffs, collar stands, plackets? For precision that is? And do you tend to use fabric pens or just a really sharp chalk?

I use scissors for everything but have been coming around to the idea of rotary cutters on the small stuff.

As a home sewer, I've used rotary cutters as well as scissors and shears.  I still find them useful for things like cutting interfacing to rough shape, or for extremely tight curves.  I agree with Gerry that blades don't last long.

Rotary cutters are no more precise than scissors or shears.  In fact they can be less accurate.  If you don't hold the cutter absolutely square to the table, your top and bottom pieces can be two different sizes when cutting multiple layers.  If the blade bolt comes loose, you can easily lose control.

Rotary cutters can also be very dangerous, both to you and the cloth.  They are supposed to be timesavers, but how much time will you lose if you nick your finger and have to stop work?  What if you bleed on the cloth? 

Whatever you do, resist the temptation to save time by laying your pattern on the work and cutting around it.  You will either nick the pattern piece (which over time will destroy its shape), or leave extra room around it, making your cut parts too big.

Rotary cutters are supposed to be time savers - but sometimes you need to take more time to truly save time.

Just my 2 cents.

I use a small (28mm) rotary cutter a lot for collars and cuffs - in combination with a patchwork ruler, I find I can be very precise with it. Partly this is because my approach to these areas is to sew first and trim second... I find it very handy to be able to sew a cuff (for example), and then trim the seam allowance on the open edge to 10mm using the rotary cutter and patchwork ruler.

I also cut the interfacings folded in half, so they're guaranteed to be symmetrical, and I find there's less tendency for the two layers to move relative to each other when using the rotary cutter than with shears. This still takes care and practice though.

I don't actually mark out cuff or collar patterns on the garment fabric at all - I just cut rectangles. I mark the interfacings with a sharp pencil, cut them with the rotary cutter, use their outlines to guide my sewing, and then trim the excess garment fabric.

I also use the rotary cutter for sleeve plackets, again with the patchwork ruler. Once you've established one edge properly on grain, you can cut the placket pieces very precisely, very quickly - the markings on the cutting mat are very useful here.

I use often use water-erasable pens to mark out collar stiffener slots on pale cloths, but I make sure to test them first. Chalk otherwise.

As for templates, I mostly use cardboard, but I've been seriously thinking about trying PTFE sheet... Cardboard has a fairly limited lifespan.

You can get a tool to sharpen rotary cutter blades, it works very well.

Quote from: Dunc on January 29, 2025, 02:50:22 AMI also cut the interfacings folded in half, so they're guaranteed to be symmetrical, and I find there's less tendency for the two layers to move relative to each other when using the rotary cutter than with shears. This still takes care and practice though.

A trick that Mike Maldonado uses in one of his shirt-making vids, is to staple the interfacing together once folded, to stop it from shifting. Mark, cut, then remove the staple.

Yeah, that's exactly what I do, but I still find the action of the shears tends to push the layers to move relative to each other, especially on curves. I do usually favour quite heavy interfacings, mind you...

Quote from: Dunc on January 29, 2025, 06:30:40 AMYeah, that's exactly what I do, but I still find the action of the shears tends to push the layers to move relative to each other, especially on curves. I do usually favour quite heavy interfacings, mind you...

Yes, shears do shift layers, the thicker the worse. Fo smaller parts I use small Kai or Sharpist seamstress'scissors in various sizes. They are very sharp and great for finecut work. Plus you can put your whole hand trough them!.

Cheers, Hendrick
(https://i.postimg.cc/XrQ4wcvr/sharpist.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XrQ4wcvr)

Quote from: Dunc on January 29, 2025, 06:30:40 AMYeah, that's exactly what I do, but I still find the action of the shears tends to push the layers to move relative to each other, especially on curves. I do usually favour quite heavy interfacings, mind you...

For small pieces, I simply hold the interfacing in my hand and cut round it, rather than trying to cut it flat. Even with softer interfacing it's usually feasible to hold the piece near its edges to stop them moving.

Chanterelle,

Have you looked at Mike Maldonado's classes?

Quote from: Schneiderfrei on January 29, 2025, 01:19:03 PMHave you looked at Mike Maldonado's classes?

The websites linked from his YouTube and Insta profiles all seem to be gone, and I haven't seen any activity from him in a couple of years. Even back when I bought his course (which is a good few years ago now) the website was like something out of the ark... It's a shame, his course was by far the best and most comprehensive material on shirtmaking I ever managed to find.

I thought so too. I liked the practical methods, and the emphasis on efficiency. He must have run a tight business.

I expect he's retired or even passed away like Stanley Hostek in Seattle.

Hopefully just retired!

Yeah. That.

Quote from: Dunc on January 29, 2025, 07:31:45 PM

Quote from: Schneiderfrei on January 29, 2025, 01:19:03 PMHave you looked at Mike Maldonado's classes?

The websites linked from his YouTube and Insta profiles all seem to be gone, and I haven't seen any activity from him in a couple of years. Even back when I bought his course (which is a good few years ago now) the website was like something out of the ark... It's a shame, his course was by far the best and most comprehensive material on shirtmaking I ever managed to find.

It's possible that he just got fed up with support and simply wants a quiet retirement. As I mentioned somewhere in this thread, when I bought a couple of his courses everything was sent via drop-box. I only had a free account, which had a size limit to its inbox IIR. Something like that, anyway. It just meant that I didn't get all the files and after a lot of email correspondence, he had to send them one at a time. Which was a pain for both of us.

Yes, his website was archaic. I remember that I had to shrink the page by about 30% just to see and use the checkout option.

Hopefully he's still around. I don't use masses of his approach, but I certainly learnt a few key things; and a lot of what he demonstrated gave me ideas (many of which came to fruition).

As you say, the most comprehensive vids around re shirt-making.

Quote from: Gerry on January 29, 2025, 12:53:07 AM

Quote from: Chanterelle on January 28, 2025, 11:14:27 PMDo people use rotary cutters to cut out the smaller elements, like collars, cuffs, collar stands, plackets? For precision that is? And do you tend to use fabric pens or just a really sharp chalk?

Bespoke shirtmakers often use specialist knives (38:40 mark):

could actually see some knives used for leather work being handy for the smaller bits, like: https://www.etsy.com/market/rocker_knife

Quote from: jruley on January 29, 2025, 02:11:14 AMJust my 2 cents.

This I get...but the thought is that, especially with the smaller bits, a rotary cutter may be more precise because it does not lift the cloth like sheers do...but that depends on the skill of the user, i guess

Quote from: Gerry on January 30, 2025, 12:35:13 AM

Quote from: Dunc on January 29, 2025, 07:31:45 PM

Quote from: Schneiderfrei on January 29, 2025, 01:19:03 PMHave you looked at Mike Maldonado's classes?

The websites linked from his YouTube and Insta profiles all seem to be gone, and I haven't seen any activity from him in a couple of years. Even back when I bought his course (which is a good few years ago now) the website was like something out of the ark... It's a shame, his course was by far the best and most comprehensive material on shirtmaking I ever managed to find.

As I mentioned somewhere in this thread, when I bought a couple of his courses everything was sent via drop-box. I only had a free account, which had a size limit to its inbox IIR. Something like that, anyway. It just meant that I didn't get all the files and after a lot of email correspondence, he had to send them one at a time. Which was a pain for both of us.

Ethical grey area but if he's not offering these courses anymore/cannot be purchased anymore, would you mind sharing the videos?

That said, I'm considering Bespoke Educator's course on shirt making https://www.youtube.com/@BESPOKEEDUCATOR

Quote from: Chanterelle on January 30, 2025, 05:12:06 AMEthical grey area but if he's not offering these courses anymore/cannot be purchased anymore, would you mind sharing the videos?

I really wouldn't feel comfortable doing that, sorry. It's his intellectual property to do with as he pleases. For all we know he's revamping his website, or rerecording his vids with the intention of selling them. We can't automatically assume that he's retired or has bit the dust.

I didn't buy all of the modules. Much of the content in the ones I did purchase is covered in his free vids on youtube (the two channels that I linked to at the start of this thread). Which was a little annoying, but there were bits and pieces of interest.

I wasn't tempted by the drafting module. I don't remember the exact details, but he did something in an excerpt that just didn't make sense and clearly would lead to a certain problem ... then there was an excerpt for what to do if you encounter said problem. We all have our blind spots, admittedly, but I saved my money.

I really like Bespoke Educator's channel. If you do sign up with him, please give an overview of what is covered.

Quote from: Chanterelle on January 30, 2025, 05:03:15 AMcould actually see some knives used for leather work being handy for the smaller bits, like: https://www.etsy.com/market/rocker_knife

Unfortunately your link doesn't appear to work, Chanterelle. However, I just checked leatherwork knives on etsy and yes, many look as if they would do the job. Hadn't occurred to me, thanks. My only concern is, are they sharp enough? Again, if you pull the trigger on any, do let us know how they perform.

Edit: Also, quite a lot of the knives look too 'vertical', compared to the one James MacAuslan shows. I wonder who sources these knives? This vid shows the knife in action, BTW:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdeA_bPO05U

Quote from: Chanterelle on January 30, 2025, 05:05:28 AMThis I get...but the thought is that, especially with the smaller bits, a rotary cutter may be more precise because it does not lift the cloth like sheers do...but that depends on the skill of the user, i guess

What I do when cutting multiple layers is put in a few pins.  Well away from the edges so they won't interfere with the shears (or rotary cutter).  Really cuts down on the shifting especially with lightweight or slick material.

Quote from: Gerry on January 30, 2025, 05:35:36 AM

Quote from: Chanterelle on January 30, 2025, 05:03:15 AMcould actually see some knives used for leather work being handy for the smaller bits, like: https://www.etsy.com/market/rocker_knife

Unfortunately your link doesn't appear to work, Chanterelle. However, I just checked leatherwork knives on etsy and yes, many look as if they would do the job. Hadn't occurred to me, thanks. My only concern is, are they sharp enough? Again, if you pull the trigger on any, do let us know how they perform.

Edit: Also, quite a lot of the knives look too 'vertical', compared to the one James MacAuslan shows. I wonder who sources these knives? This vid shows the knife in action, BTW:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdeA_bPO05U

I reccomend Xacto or Westcott pen knives, they have various cutting blades. I specifically like the rounded ones that I have used a lot for fine leathers and felts but also for boiled wool fabrics that are used "raw edge". Westcott used to also make a ruler with "anti slip" backing that prevents whatever you are cutting from gliding.

Cheers, Hendrick

Quote from: Hendrick on January 30, 2025, 06:43:22 AMI reccomend Xacto or Westcott pen knives, they have various cutting blades. I specifically like the rounded ones that I have used a lot for fine leathers and felts but also for boiled wool fabrics that are used "raw edge". Westcott used to also make a ruler with "anti slip" backing that prevents whatever you are cutting from gliding.

Cheers, Hendrick

I already own one of those xacto scalpels. I was sort of put off using using it for cloth by the caffeinated Tailor. He posted a short on his channel not so long ago that showed him struggling to cut multiple layers of shirting with a scalpel. It didn't go well, which is probably why the video appears to have been removed! 😀 Like any tool, I'm sure there's a knack to using these. I'd still prefer to have one of those full-size blades though.

Angled trim knives are perhaps usable?

https://www.leatherhouse.eu/products/96-knife-blades-amp-scissors/22851-french-angled-trim-knife/

Quote from: Gerry on January 30, 2025, 05:26:21 AM

Quote from: Chanterelle on January 30, 2025, 05:12:06 AMEthical grey area but if he's not offering these courses anymore/cannot be purchased anymore, would you mind sharing the videos?

I really wouldn't feel comfortable doing that, sorry. It's his intellectual property to do with as he pleases. For all we know he's revamping his website, or rerecording his vids with the intention of selling them. We can't automatically assume that he's retired or has bit the dust.

I didn't buy all of the modules. Much of the content in the ones I did purchase is covered in his free vids on youtube (the two channels that I linked to at the start of this thread). Which was a little annoying, but there were bits and pieces of interest.

I wasn't tempted by the drafting module. I don't remember the exact details, but he did something in an excerpt that just didn't make sense and clearly would lead to a certain problem ... then there was an excerpt for what to do if you encounter said problem. We all have our blind spots, admittedly, but I saved my money.

I really like Bespoke Educator's channel. If you do sign up with him, please give an overview of what is covered.

Totally understandable. Will definitely report back, maybe with a screen grab of what's covered in the course...it's all inclusive he says and covers everything involved--drafting to all the find details of making up.

Did chat with him briefly over email...I told him about the forum, so hope he decides to join us here.

Quote from: Gerry on January 30, 2025, 05:35:36 AM

Quote from: Chanterelle on January 30, 2025, 05:03:15 AMcould actually see some knives used for leather work being handy for the smaller bits, like: https://www.etsy.com/market/rocker_knife

Unfortunately your link doesn't appear to work, Chanterelle. However, I just checked leatherwork knives on etsy and yes, many look as if they would do the job. Hadn't occurred to me, thanks. My only concern is, are they sharp enough? Again, if you pull the trigger on any, do let us know how they perform.

Edit: Also, quite a lot of the knives look too 'vertical', compared to the one James MacAuslan shows. I wonder who sources these knives? This vid shows the knife in action, BTW:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdeA_bPO05U

The knives have a curved blade like pictured which seems vastly superior for doing curves than the straight blade MacAuslan is using in that vid. The curved blade would allow you to 'rock' around the curves and help with straighter lines with less possibility for those choppy edges. The problem I foresee is that without a cutting template, the curves of a collar stand might end up uneven, unless the fabric is cut on the half. I don't *like* cutting on the half for stands and
collars but maybe I should do...maybe when I've been doing this for forty years I'll finally have a good methodology down lol.

I have a few leather working knives and they can be razor sharp if you get a decent one.

For rotary cutters, I use Olfa blades, which are very sharp. Worth the price imo. Still, with the pressure you need to apply, the trouble is getting a smooth, accurate curve.

Maybe the best method is to pin and cut

Quote from: jruley on January 30, 2025, 05:40:06 AM

Quote from: Chanterelle on January 30, 2025, 05:05:28 AMThis I get...but the thought is that, especially with the smaller bits, a rotary cutter may be more precise because it does not lift the cloth like sheers do...but that depends on the skill of the user, i guess

What I do when cutting multiple layers is put in a few pins.  Well away from the edges so they won't interfere with the shears (or rotary cutter).  Really cuts down on the shifting especially with lightweight or slick material.

(https://i.postimg.cc/nMK7c5CD/Disenosintitulo20230706-T142549-922.webp) (https://postimg.cc/nMK7c5CD)

Quote from: Gerry on January 30, 2025, 09:02:13 AMAngled trim knives are perhaps usable?

https://www.leatherhouse.eu/products/96-knife-blades-amp-scissors/22851-french-angled-trim-knife/

They have linen thread.
https://www.leatherhouse.eu/products/98-sewing-thread/3454-waxed-linen-thread----leatherhouse/
Grandad used linen thread for sewing on coat buttons. The thread they have might be good for this.

Quote from: Greger on February 02, 2025, 04:23:02 PMThey have linen thread.
https://www.leatherhouse.eu/products/98-sewing-thread/3454-waxed-linen-thread----leatherhouse/
Grandad used linen thread for sewing on coat buttons. The thread they have might be good for this.

Gutermann do a waxed linen thread, but the colour range is really limited (unlike the above firm). Very wiry stuff. I repaired the strap of a leather bag with it and the repair has held, so pretty strong.

I am about to make a few dress shirts - what thread do people recommend? I have made a few shirts but they've all been casual shirts out of heavier, more structured material, so I've used Gutermann or Amaan all-purpose, Tex 30 thread, but for a dress shirt out of finer material and for a cleaner finish, what do you recommend? The material is a nice dress-y cotton. I would imagine it's a very fine thread you want, but curious what people's go-to is. All the better if you can point me to an option available in the US, from Wawak or Bias Bespoke ideally.

Quote from: EvanTA on March 04, 2025, 02:47:15 AMI am about to make a few dress shirts - what thread do people recommend? 

Finer thread can be expensive so should be reserved for top stitching only if you can help it. Test on some scraps to see if you can get away with normal weight sewing thread for the long seams (all the stuff that won't be visible). It's the larger needle size required for thicker thread that can present a problem with fine cloth (it can damage it). Also, 'stitch-wiggle' can present itself if thread is too thick for the cloth. Again, do some testing.

Aurifil 80wt Cotton thread is nice. It's a fine, two-ply, 100% cotton thread. So long as your stitch density is on the higher side, it can hold a seam (if required). This stuff (supplier picked at random from a search - scroll down for different colours):

https://www.fatquartershop.com/aurifil-thread/aurifil-80-wt-thread

It's pricey, but you do get more length on a bobbin.

Quote from: EvanTA on March 04, 2025, 02:47:15 AMAll the better if you can point me to an option available in the US, from Wawak or Bias Bespoke ideally.

I have been using Gutermann Mara 150, which is available on Wawak. It's a Tex 20 version on their polyester thread and has been great on my thinner shirtings. If you haven't used these spools before, you will need a spool holder to sit behind your machine.

I just ordered a spool of this stuff to try in the future. It should be of similar quality.
https://www.biasbespoke.com/?target=order&order_number=27151

The biggest challenge that I have with this finer thread is that you need a small needle (I'm using size 60) and it's hard to balance the stitching on my home machine. I believe that this is one of those few cases where it's time to adjust the bobbin tension. But I need a new bobbin case for that.

I think Mara 120 (Tex 25) is about as far as you can go without having to faff about with your bobbin tension.

My problem with polyester thread (aside from environmental concerns) is that - assuming your main cloth is 100% cotton - you need to get the iron up to a decent temperature to get nice, pressed seams and edges, which can weaken the thread.

Quote from: Gerry on March 04, 2025, 09:47:16 PMMy problem with polyester thread (aside from environmental concerns) is that - assuming your main cloth is 100% cotton - you need to get the iron up to a decent temperature to get nice, pressed seams and edges, which can weaken the thread.

I'm just a hobbyist and I gave up on cotton thread for most seaming some years ago due to a couple annoying wardrobe failures and the ready availability of high quality polyester thread in lots of weights. But now you have me thinking. Do you find that polyester thread makes it more difficult to get crisp seams? Or is it just a matter of iron temperature being hard on polyester? Maybe I should give cotton thread another chance. At least for something like a dress shirt where the stresses are not that high and it will never see the inside of a dryer.

Quote from: DrLang on March 05, 2025, 10:51:47 PMDo you find that polyester thread makes it more difficult to get crisp seams? Or is it just a matter of iron temperature being hard on polyester?

The latter. Yesterday I literally had a stray polyester thread melt against the side of my iron. I no longer buy the stuff, but I have a stockpile that is gradually being used up when making toiles and samples. My minor mishap occured while rolling trouser pocket seams out of sight to the wrong side. The pocketing was 100% cotton so needed a high temperature on the iron to get a nice finish. Melty thread, that can't be good, can it.

Other than bed sheets/underwear, never put any garment in a dryer! Or a washing machine for that matter. They shorten its life. If trousers are washable, soak in water with mild detergent, gently compress them with fingers outstretched (wringing the cloth can stretch areas and damage seams) then hang them from a door frame; they should dry overnight/within a day. Place a towel underneath them if they still drip, or hang them over a clothes rack initially, until they've stopped dripping. Knits can be dried on a towel, shirts also hung from door frames.

As for wardrobe malfunctions, if the CB seam of trousers is sewn with cotton thread, go over it a second time by hand with a back-stitch using thicker thread. I use Gutermann 'sulky' thread. I prefer either a stem or outline stitch - variations of the same thing: a back stitch worked from the underside, so to speak, which allows one to direct the thread and get a decorative, roping effect. Which stitch is used depends on the direction of the curve (the thread is directed towards the outside of a curve, otherwise it looks angular). Silk can also be used for the backstitching (it tends to be stronger). That should hold the seam.

Polyester-core thread is better than pure polyester. It's cotton wrapped, so can take more heat. Best of both worlds (though personally I don't like using plastics).

Interesting. I have a giant spool of polyester thread that was thrown into an order I received as a freebie. I used it to overlock some raw edges and it is the only polyester thread that has ever melted on me. I don't know if that's just bad luck or a sign of terrible quality.

Use of the dryer is definitely not going anywhere in my household as that is not a unilateral decision that I can make. Though very little of my own clothing ends up in there these days. It's easy when my wife wears only black. Space for hang drying is limited in the extreme. But you've convinced me to give cotton thread another try.

Quote from: DrLang on March 06, 2025, 03:15:00 AMInteresting. I have a giant spool of polyester thread that was thrown into an order I received as a freebie. I used it to overlock some raw edges and it is the only polyester thread that has ever melted on me. I don't know if that's just bad luck or a sign of terrible quality.

The brand of polyester thread I used to buy is Mettler, which is good quality. Fine for wool and man-made cloths, but clearly it doesn't take too well to the higher temperatures needed for cotton. Mostly, polyester thread isn't going to totally melt, but it will weaken with heat, which is why I would only ever use cotton thread in shirts.

How do people think that silk thread meets the rigors of everyday wear?

Some say that silk desolves in some types of soap.

Well, as a rule of thumb silk thread is stronger than cotton, and for dress trousers it's OK to reinforce the CB seam of trousers with it (having already machined the seam). But no, I wouldn't put it in anything washable. Nor would I use it as the main thread, simply for cost reasons.  :)

Well, I can't say I've ever noticed any issues with Gutermann poly thread. Not saying it can't happen, but I've never noticed it.

Only place I'd use silk would be for hand finishing a silk evening shirt - but that's because it's expensive, not because I'm worried about strength. That would be dry clean only.

I'm not sure that thread strength should really be that much of a consideration on a shirt anyway - you're normally using quite fine fabrics, so the thread isn't likely to be the weakest link. Maybe if you're making something like a Ventile windshirt or a sahariana...

Quote from: Dunc on March 06, 2025, 08:20:37 PMI'm not sure that thread strength should really be that much of a consideration on a shirt anyway - you're normally using quite fine fabrics, so the thread isn't likely to be the weakest link.

Absolutely, a year or so back I carried out an autopsy on an old Italian shirt I bought in the late 80s. All the seams had held, but holes had started to appear in the cloth. I've also got a collection of late 50s/early 60s shirts that I use for research and the cloning of collars. Again, any damage is always to the cloth. The seams hold, despite being stitched with cotton thread (which does degrade over time), and chain-stitched at that (as mentioned in another thread, it's a myth that chain-stitch creates weak seams).

One thing that some bespoke shirt makers are keen on pointing out is that if one runs a finger down the seams of chain-stitched shirts, if polyester thread is used it feels rough. Although that's true, you've got to go out of your way to even notice this. I've owned plenty of ready-to wear-shirts in the past that supposedly had this 'issue', but not once did I notice that the seams were rough. More bespoke propaganda!  ;D

I also never had issues with poly thread or breaking seams.
I love silk for button holes because it is so smooth and makes the most beautiful knots. But I would never use it in washables, just in woolen items.
And I think the seam breaking in the back trouser seam is due to the bias of the fabric there. The fabric stretches but not the thread. Meanwhile I (double)sew this seam with a slight zig zag. This gives the seam enough elasticity but does not disturb ironing apart the SAs.