I have a question (and I don't think I am losing my mind).
Within the last 12 years, at some point I remember a discussion (I think it was on the old C&T site) regarding the quality of a straight stitch seam produced on a domestic straight stitch machine vs the quality of a straight stitch produced on a domestic zigzag machine. I thought I remembered that a zigzag machine inherently always forms a slightly slanted stitch due to the engineering required to move the needle bar from side to side. The slant is not caused by tension control only, or thickness of fabric or thread, or needle, etc. which is why so many people opt to purchase a straight stitch only machine - to have a consistently higher quality straight stitch seam and yes, to increase speed.
Can anyone explain this better or point me in the direction of a more detailed explanation?
I think that vintage is an issue here.
The older vintage singers, huskies, pfaff and others with bronze gears etc would handle a straight stitch as well as the zig zag.
Modern nylon geared machines would be less capable.
But my experience is not in the modern machines, so happy to be corrected.
G
I own a domestic, 1964 Bernina that does zigzag. The straight stitch has always had a slight wobble so I bought a vintage Singer for this task. The Bernina rarely comes out of its case, but it occasionally has its uses.
I've seen modern, domestic machines that do both well, but they're totally plastic and won't have the longevity.
I have two old Berninas (830 and 930) three old straight stitch Singers (201, 15-91, 221) and one Brother (Inovis-40). On the Berninas and the Brother the straight stitch is okay on the front but ever so slightly skewed on the back. On the old Singers and on the community college sewing lab's Juki straight stitch machines (8700) front and back are the same so I would tend to agree with the comments.
Many older straight stiches have an oscilating hook that forms the stich left to right and vice versa. Nearly all zigzaggers have rotating hooks, always pulling the stitch to the same side.
Horizontal bobbin rotating hook machines (like the singer 66, 201, 99 and many later) are some of the best straight stitching domestic machines (with many claiming that the 201 forms the best stitch of any domestic).
There is a but; to much bobbin tension (under tension) can cause almost any machine to form "oblique stitches"as they are sometimes called.
All industrials that I have seen, 4 so far, also have rotating bobbins = Hi-rose.
I agree set up is probably the key.
G
Yup, all fast industrials, save for some heavy thread numbers, have rotating hooks... Setting correct bobbin tension is probably the key. I had crooked stitches with an Pfaff 460's series industrial except when using 120's sewing thread. I bought a second bobbin holder for it with the tension adjusted for thicker thread. Still think that the slightly older Pfaffs with lightweight bobbins are better but most of them are abused to death these days. Still, I ended up selling the 463.
That all sounds right Hendrick.
I woud also add that industrial machines of the much older type may also be of an occillating bobbin type. Especially chain stitch machines. But that is perhaps a bit more specialised than most of us are used to. I have no experience in using these.
I used different Vintage Elna Zig zags before my Pfaff 138. They always had a perfect straight stitch. Both had a rotating horizontal hook. These machines always worked a lot smoother than all the Singers and even Berninas I worked with, especially at higher speeds. The other always started to vibrate at Higher speeds.
I'm also convinced, that often a wobbly straight stitch is caused by a bad setting of the 'zero point' of the zig zag mechanism.
The construction of the machine also plays a role I think. There are Machines where the whole hook assembly has to follow the zig zag of the needle. A lot to move, a lot of chances for lacking precision.
I'm not a technical genius, I embarrassingly hardly know anything about the mechanics of a sewing machine. But I'm pretty sure you should just use zigzag machines for their intended purpose.
Most domestic machines come with 10 stitches, including straight and zigzag, and you are usually able to change the width and length. I own a Brother domestic that has about 50 different stitches. It's not a vintage one, rather it is from their "Project Runaway limited edition". Apparently it's some show they sponsored. I also own a Singer heavy duty domestic, but I use the Brother as my main sewing machine.
I've always preferred Brother over Singer because (1) they've always been higher quality in my experience and (2) I've found the pedal foot to be more easy to "control" on the Brother than the Singer. The only issue I have with the brother machines are that the pedal and cord are separate, but that's not a big deal in all honesty.
Agreed that the current Singers are nowhere as good as they used to be in the "iron age". I have a Brother with 40 stitches that does a (more than half decent) automatic buttonhole and, I only ever use it for that and bar-tacking. That said, it is an exeptionally stable and strong machine for its weight. I used it extensively for loads of small buttonholes in childrens' samples and I recommend to anyone who makes shirts! I never use a zigzagger for straight stitching; don't like the presser feet for that...
Quote from: Hendrick on February 11, 2023, 08:09:55 AM
Agreed that the current Singers are nowhere as good as they used to be in the "iron age". I have a Brother with 40 stitches that does a (more than half decent) automatic buttonhole and, I only ever use it for that and bar-tacking. That said, it is an exeptionally stable and strong machine for its weight. I used it extensively for loads of small buttonholes in childrens' samples and I recommend to anyone who makes shirts! I never use a zigzagger for straight stitching; don't like the presser feet for that...
The automatic buttonhole and tack stitches are actually pretty decent now in modern domestics, I'd actually dare say they may be superior to the actual button hole machines.
At least for me, even the eyelet buttonhole on ny little Brother is adequate! Must admit though that the festooned eyelet buttonholes on the old Durkopp my father used are still amazing. When he first started using this (1950s!) most people thought the buttonholes were handsewn. I really dislike the modern Juki etc. buttonholers that use tight stitches and thinner thread...
Hendrick, are you talking about jacket buttonholes or shirt ones?
How was the Dukopp different?
I have a buttonhole attachment for my old Singers. They produce the best buttonholes. They are a pain to get lined up properly so for shirts and blouses I use a machine made in this century because I can get exact placement. For anything needing a keyhole buttonhole I use the attachment and go around twice - beautiful.
I have a buttonholer attachment for my Singers, too. Mine is branded Necchi /Elna. It works flawlessly and yes, with a "second tour" it does a beautiful buttonhole! Nearly all these attachments are made by Greist under many many brand names from Singer to Jones to Ena etc. There are even types for the "slanted foot" Singers available (not my cup of tee...)
Schneiderfrei, the Durkopp was actually an improvement over the Reece 101 which was an industry standard but could only be rented and had a counter mech; you had to pay by the buttonhole... The Durkopp is mechanically not very different from the Reece but it is a more precise machine. The big difference between these and (most) Juki's etc. is that they form a festooned stitch, like a handmade buttonhole. Many modern machines just overcast, like a domestic... Here is a link to what they can do today' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceDsp2FVONQ
Ah, festooned = handmade quivalent, I understand. Although it doesnt seem to insert any gimp under the stitches.
My Pfaff 138 has the capability to do this, but not automatic, and I havent done it. I wonder if peterle has done gimp buttonholes on his 138?
I learned machine sewing on an industrial 138. I have a link or a little video somewhere pf a lady doing an eyelet buttonhole on it, in a pair of jeans. I tried it on a Pfaff with an acrylic presser foot; nice!
:)
That video is quite amazing. Pretty buttonholes. Wonder how long the buttonholes last. They are certainly figuring out how to make better machines. The last pretty buttonhole I bought at the store didn't last very long. Ripped it out and put one in by hand. The cloth wore out and the hand made buttonhole looked new. And, I actually like the look of the hand made buttonhole. When walking through Nordstrom I'll usually look at them. Don't know if the cloth is fused. That would make a difference in durability, how the stitch is done.
Know what you mean Greger... Narrow and tight stitches with thread that is too thin... Worse still; this sort of buttonhole in a coarse coatweight holds too little material and you can "pluck" it out of a coat accidently.
That sounds terrible Hendrick. Worst than what I wrote. I guess they are throw away garments anyway. People are brainwashed that it doesn't matter either.
I;m not joking. I saw a men's coat at a worldwide fastfashion retailer with a buttonhole spliced out of the fabric. A salesperson had the audacity to arrange and put it back in the rack. Mind you, it was during early sales, but. That blew my fuse; left for a coffee...
No, Schneiderfrei, I have'nt done a gimp button hole in my Pfaff, simply because the device was missing when I bought the machine.🥺 I tried to get one, but had no luck yet. I only do shirt button holes on the machine using just a button hole foot wirh two grooves. No buttonholer.
Peterle, do you have the foot with the ruler in the back???
Do You mean this one? Ist's a low shank and I 've to use the adapter for the 138.
(https://i.postimg.cc/w1mmNJKC/IMG-20230216-101245.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w1mmNJKC)
Similar, but no...