Bespoke Cutter And Tailor

Apprentices => Drafting, Fitting and Construction => Topic started by: Dmm890824 on January 23, 2023, 03:13:34 PM

Title: Some beautiful draftings about men's coat,I want to konw the name of the books!
Post by: Dmm890824 on January 23, 2023, 03:13:34 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/Xp10BbqZ/IMG-1129-20230119-182305.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Xp10BbqZ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/fV3QxrS8/IMG-1130-20230119-182305.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fV3QxrS8)

(https://i.postimg.cc/qN9VQx84/IMG-1131-20230119-182305.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qN9VQx84)

(https://i.postimg.cc/R3KrYJRf/IMG-1132-20230119-182305.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/R3KrYJRf)

(https://i.postimg.cc/tZb0GRSc/IMG-1133-20230119-182305.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tZb0GRSc)

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZBxGbkX5/IMG-1134-20230119-182305.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZBxGbkX5)
Title: Re: Some beautiful draftings about men's coat,I want to konw the name of the books!
Post by: Schneiderfrei on January 23, 2023, 07:41:23 PM
Hi Dmm890824,

They show some beautiful styling. I especially love the different pocketing styles.

They don't look like the typical Tailor and Cutter offerings.  I think they are American.

G

Title: Re: Some beautiful draftings about men's coat,I want to konw the name of the books!
Post by: TTailor on January 23, 2023, 11:05:45 PM
They look vaguely familiar but I cannot come up with an identification yet…..maybe from pre ww1 to the 1920’s
Hmmmm
Title: Re: Some beautiful draftings about men's coat,I want to konw the name of the books!
Post by: Steelmillal on January 24, 2023, 07:10:56 AM
Quote from: Schneiderfrei on January 23, 2023, 07:41:23 PM
  I think they are American.

They are if they came from Kentucky. Them's women's riding coats. See the skirts and front? Patrol seams allover.
Where'd they turn up, Dmm890824?
Title: Re: Some beautiful draftings about men's coat,I want to konw the name of the books!
Post by: SO_tailor on January 24, 2023, 09:14:03 AM
It's definitely a draft from either the 1910's to the early 1920's, you can tell by the amount of the overlapping hip. This is definitely an American draft, because it's drafted to the left while British coats are drafted to the right. As an American myself I think this may be either an old Progresssive tailor draft, a draft from Regal's, or from the Master Designers system. The photos below are from the MDS and a 1930's PT draft, which while the latter isn't 1920's, PT had very similar layouts throughout it's many draft designs.
(https://i.postimg.cc/7JS6Hm5n/6-A91-B7-EB-EE46-43-F7-9-DFA-2-F5-B94-FB446-B.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7JS6Hm5n)
(Master Designers (early 1920s))
(https://i.postimg.cc/3dHNS5qS/DC500388-7208-41-FF-8-F40-B04-FBC498-BFC.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3dHNS5qS)
(PT 1930's)
Title: Re: Some beautiful draftings about men's coat,I want to konw the name of the books!
Post by: SO_tailor on January 24, 2023, 09:18:16 AM
Quote from: Dmm890824 on January 23, 2023, 03:13:34 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZBxGbkX5/IMG-1134-20230119-182305.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZBxGbkX5)


Ok seeing the last photo I'm very confident this is a progressive tailor draft, if you compare it to the draft I showed above/
Title: Re: Some beautiful draftings about men's coat,I want to konw the name of the books!
Post by: SO_tailor on January 24, 2023, 09:20:43 AM
Quote from: Schneiderfrei on January 23, 2023, 07:41:23 PM
Hi Dmm890824,

They show some beautiful styling. I especially love the different pocketing styles.

They don't look like the typical Tailor and Cutter offerings.  I think they are American.

G

Your right Grahm! They are without doubt American. You can tell by which "side" the coat is drafted. British tailors typically draft to the right while American tailors draft to the left. This is because Americans draft by the "divisions" side of the square, while the British draft the coats from the "Numerical" side.
Title: Re: Some beautiful draftings about men's coat,I want to konw the name of the books!
Post by: Hendrick on January 24, 2023, 09:39:04 AM


Hi, the drawings are typical for Harry Simons... The book must be something along the lines of "designing sack coats dress coats and vests" or thereabout.  I will try to find it, check back later.

Cheers, Hendrick
Title: Re: Some beautiful draftings about men's coat,I want to konw the name of the books!
Post by: Schneiderfrei on January 24, 2023, 10:48:05 AM
Quote from: SO_tailor on January 24, 2023, 09:20:43 AM
Your right Grahm! They are without doubt American. You can tell by which "side" the coat is drafted. British tailors typically draft to the right while American tailors draft to the left. This is because Americans draft by the "divisions" side of the square, while the British draft the coats from the "Numerical" side.

That's very good to know, thank you.  I had no idea why it was so.

G
Title: Re: Some beautiful draftings about men's coat,I want to konw the name of the books!
Post by: SO_tailor on January 24, 2023, 01:23:01 PM
Quote from: Schneiderfrei on January 24, 2023, 10:48:05 AM
Quote from: SO_tailor on January 24, 2023, 09:20:43 AM
Your right Grahm! They are without doubt American. You can tell by which "side" the coat is drafted. British tailors typically draft to the right while American tailors draft to the left. This is because Americans draft by the "divisions" side of the square, while the British draft the coats from the "Numerical" side.

That's very good to know, thank you.  I had no idea why it was so.

G
Your welcome! :D
Title: Re: Some beautiful draftings about men's coat,I want to konw the name of the books!
Post by: Steelmillal on January 26, 2023, 10:21:07 PM
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/original-pre-1929-historical-pattern-collection--524387950337387359/

The above was on a saved page.

Hendrick nailed the title. https://archive.org/details/designingsackcoa00simo/page/n11/mode/2up ..Too old for moderns. People look at me enough wearing a 'normie' suit or tweed. Maybe if I had 'strechty goo' trousers on instead ...  ;)

(https://i.postimg.cc/4m7NmD2G/Screenshot-2020-12-20-113017.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4m7NmD2G)
Title: Re: Some beautiful draftings about men's coat,I want to konw the name of the books!
Post by: SO_tailor on January 28, 2023, 05:14:59 AM
Quote from: Steelmillal on January 26, 2023, 10:21:07 PM
Hendrick nailed the title. https://archive.org/details/designingsackcoa00simo/page/n11/mode/2up ..Too old for moderns. People look at me enough wearing a 'normie' suit or tweed. Maybe if I had 'strechty goo' trousers on instead ...  ;)
That's relatable, as someone who wears "old fashioned" clothing.
Title: Re: Some beautiful draftings about men's coat,I want to konw the name of the books!
Post by: SO_tailor on January 28, 2023, 05:20:47 AM
Quote from: Hendrick on January 24, 2023, 09:39:04 AM


Hi, the drawings are typical for Harry Simons... The book must be something along the lines of "designing sack coats dress coats and vests" or thereabout.  I will try to find it, check back later.

Cheers, Hendrick

Your right Hendrick these are photos from Harry Simons! I never heard about the chap's books before, defiantly have some pretty good drafts IMO.
Title: Re: Some beautiful draftings about men's coat,I want to konw the name of the books!
Post by: SO_tailor on January 28, 2023, 05:22:41 AM
Just realized this but the drafts from Simons are pretty similar to the way some of the T&C drafts in terms of system and construction, especially in the back.
Title: Re: Some beautiful draftings about men's coat,I want to konw the name of the books!
Post by: TTailor on January 28, 2023, 11:24:11 PM
In spite of a decision to limit adding to my cache of books, I think I may try to download the book and get it printed for reference.
The styles of this time are quite interesting.
Beautiful drawings!
Title: Re: Some beautiful draftings about men's coat,I want to konw the name of the books!
Post by: SO_tailor on January 29, 2023, 06:38:51 AM
Quote from: TTailor on January 28, 2023, 11:24:11 PM
In spite of a decision to limit adding to my cache of books, I think I may try to download the book and get it printed for reference.
The styles of this time are quite interesting.
Beautiful drawings!

I agree Terri, I looked at the book and it had a good explanation on manipulating shoulders and armholes at the end. The draft had some similarities with Poulin's coat draft from Tailoring Suits, particularly where the armhole point is found (2/3 scale + 1, 1/2"/4cm), as well as some T&C drafts.
Title: Re: Some beautiful draftings about men's coat,I want to konw the name of the books!
Post by: Hendrick on February 02, 2023, 08:25:37 AM

I also like the drawings (that's how I remembered the book in the first place...) I particularly like the organic forms and placement of pockets in these
Title: Re: Some beautiful draftings about men's coat,I want to konw the name of the books!
Post by: Greger on February 02, 2023, 02:57:16 PM
My opinion is to create a pattern system that works with how you think and size the customers up to get pertinent locations. Style lines are drawn later. The pertinent locations are moved according to the style and fit desired. Looking at old systems show us methods of creating patterns and styles. Some tailors use systems over 100 years old but, produce modern styles with them. The cutter who made these patterns above was certainly an artist. Some old tailors would talk about straight lines or curved. Some would take the straight lines and press them into curves. A hand sewn seam allows for more shaping than machine sewn. And what is trying to be produced? Mass production?  Any number of the best bench tailors?
Title: Re: Some beautiful draftings about men's coat,I want to konw the name of the books!
Post by: Greger on February 02, 2023, 03:17:10 PM
A couple of coats have breast darts. This would certainly help date these patterns if they are all from the same book. One has a seam down the chest that would be useful for fitting the chest.
Title: Re: Some beautiful draftings about men's coat,I want to konw the name of the books!
Post by: Dmm890824 on September 26, 2023, 04:14:02 PM
Quote from: SO_tailor on January 24, 2023, 09:18:16 AM
Quote from: Dmm890824 on January 23, 2023, 03:13:34 PM(https://i.postimg.cc/ZBxGbkX5/IMG-1134-20230119-182305.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZBxGbkX5)


Ok seeing the last photo I'm very confident this is a progressive tailor draft, if you compare it to the draft I showed above/
Thank you!