Fashion companies that don't embrace technology are sitting ducks just waiting to be picked off by sharp-shooting software companies.
If you think you run a fashion business, you're wrong.
A technology business with a fashion focus? Sure. Anything else and you may as well wave the white flag because the rules of the rag trade are changing. You're either leading that change, or you're a sitting duck ready to be picked off by a sharp-shooting tech juggernaut.
Read more : https://www.sixatomic.com/blog/technology-is-eating-fashion (https://www.sixatomic.com/blog/technology-is-eating-fashion)
In the seventies, Tommy Nutter dragged Savile Row into the 1930s/40s. It's currently somewhere in the 1980s (judging by the shoulder pads). I don't think tailors are too preoccupied with fashion. ;D
Like so many businesses use marketing. If you want the clothes of earl's go to Saville Row. Italians are probably more fashionable. In the past, some tailors only made white tie coats. You would need a large enough city and be one of the better tailors to do this. If you choose a smaller city you would be making a variety of clothes, unless you want a second job. Smaller community the tailors make for men,boys, women and girls. Now you are making everything. Those tailors can tell you a lot about fashions.
Read the blog, will read some more... So right; fashion is wholly consumated by technology, marketing ad the rest of it; for the result go check the piles in hi-street shops!
The good news is, as much as fashion is controled by technology, it actually chokes on style!
Style and fashion have two different modern dressing purposes. Making a garment from the past is for a difference purpose as is guessing about what will be worn a 100 years from now. Or Making for a strange movie.
The article is basically what I learned as a child about making custom clothes, and, the same as graphic arts in high school. The difference is merely using a computer and less thinking, because the computer does it. "When properly organised, a human or AI designer can easily reference this library to assemble a unique product without having to create anything from scratch."
In the pass tailors made all the clothes. Fashions have been around long before mass-produced clothes. Mass-produced enabled middleclass and poorer to enjoy fashions but, limited. Styles last five years and more. Fashions are short live. One wearing to a few years. If you can't think outside the box of pattern directions, then you are limited. Besides, even pattern style directions don't always put the goods where they belong.
I was taught that tailors make the desires that is in the customers heart. This is not limited to styles or fashions.
Greger, I doubt that many people understand that now.
The world is changing. But we should never put our minds asleep by handing everything over to computers.
Reminds me of a cartoon where people did that for centuries. It was a war against the machines to get their lives back.
I have used computers for, well almost, the best part of my life. Mostly for design purposes and ranging from Sun and Silicon Graphics to Macs. Trust me; no computer will find a sulution before being fed a problem first. No tool, no matter how good, should limit creative options. Then again, this whole discussion may say something about how "footwear fashion". with the help of algorythms and software has gradually been reduced to a handfull of sneaker brands...
Sorry but there's a difference between "Fashion Companies" and tailor shops. Gregor said it best:
Quote from: Gerry on December 19, 2022, 08:22:32 PM
In the seventies, Tommy Nutter dragged Savile Row into the 1930s/40s. It's currently somewhere in the 1980s (judging by the shoulder pads). I don't think tailors are too preoccupied with fashion. ;D
One thing good about fashions is that it helps children's minds develop. Older people have too many things on their mind. Styles work very well for them. When I was way younger listening to younger men (even in their 30s) talking about being sent home to change into business suits. Get out of the fashion suits. Fashions clothes are fun clothes. They distract from working. Somethings have come from fashions. One of them is crease trousers. Don't remember some others. Creases were "terrible" high fashion. Those naughty teenagers. How horrible! You can even read about a king and son with strong different opinions. The old man was probably buried with creases. The creases might have become the norm in 1917.
If you read about Henry Poole fashions were part of his life. His dad had Henry's friends come in another door. That door became the Saville Row door. Other tailors started opening on that road. Read that Henry Poole had three shops. Saville Row for the wealthy. Another part of town for the middle class. One more for fashions. There was no mass production in those days. Like customer and tailor designing a style while on the customer - fashions are done the same. One is aimed at style and the is aimed at fashion. If you understand the current fashion, which is ever changing, your options are far more than what is in the store.
Taught, different doors for different types of customers. Do not put them together in the same waiting rooms.
Quote from: SO_tailor on December 25, 2022, 06:56:09 AM
Sorry but there's a difference between "Fashion Companies" and tailor shops. Gregor said it best: Quote from: Gerry on December 19, 2022, 08:22:32 PM
In the seventies, Tommy Nutter dragged Savile Row into the 1930s/40s. It's currently somewhere in the 1980s (judging by the shoulder pads). I don't think tailors are too preoccupied with fashion. ;D
You're absolutely right, I didn't notice that. My apologies! :)
Fashions are not about what marketers say. Companies hire marketers to help sale a product so they get rich and don't lose their shirt. Fashions come from culture. Not Companies and marketers. Customers who were deceived becomes like an animal with a ring in the nose being lead about (company greed).Fashions and styles are important. They do not replace the other. They are two different kinds of clothes to meet two entirely different needs.
Quote from: Gerry on December 28, 2022, 12:28:48 AM
Quote from: SO_tailor on December 25, 2022, 06:56:09 AM
Sorry but there's a difference between "Fashion Companies" and tailor shops. Gregor said it best: Quote from: Gerry on December 19, 2022, 08:22:32 PM
In the seventies, Tommy Nutter dragged Savile Row into the 1930s/40s. It's currently somewhere in the 1980s (judging by the shoulder pads). I don't think tailors are too preoccupied with fashion. ;D
You're absolutely right, I didn't notice that. My apologies! :)
Oh I was talking to the OP. Sorry i should have made it more clear.
Quote from: SO_tailor on December 31, 2022, 03:53:31 AM
Quote from: Gerry on December 28, 2022, 12:28:48 AM
Quote from: SO_tailor on December 25, 2022, 06:56:09 AM
Sorry but there's a difference between "Fashion Companies" and tailor shops. Gregor said it best: Quote from: Gerry on December 19, 2022, 08:22:32 PM
In the seventies, Tommy Nutter dragged Savile Row into the 1930s/40s. It's currently somewhere in the 1980s (judging by the shoulder pads). I don't think tailors are too preoccupied with fashion. ;D
You're absolutely right, I didn't notice that. My apologies! :)
Oh I was talking to the OP. Sorry i should have made it more clear.
No problem, I understand what you were trying to say now. Misunderstandings on both sides!
Having said that, I was being presumptuous in thinking that everyone on this forum is only concerned with tailoring. Over the decades there have been a number of tailors who've worked hand-in-hand with fashion companies, or end up in that field because it's more lucrative; and I dare say that's the situation for some members here, in which case the original post has some relevance. So I was/am rapping myself on the knuckles a little.
Personally, I feel that a well-tailored garment is timeless. Even if it incorporates a nod to fashions of the time, it will still look great years later.
Quote from: Gerry on December 31, 2022, 09:38:27 AM
Quote from: SO_tailor on December 31, 2022, 03:53:31 AM
Quote from: Gerry on December 28, 2022, 12:28:48 AM
Quote from: SO_tailor on December 25, 2022, 06:56:09 AM
Sorry but there's a difference between "Fashion Companies" and tailor shops. Gregor said it best: Quote from: Gerry on December 19, 2022, 08:22:32 PM
In the seventies, Tommy Nutter dragged Savile Row into the 1930s/40s. It's currently somewhere in the 1980s (judging by the shoulder pads). I don't think tailors are too preoccupied with fashion. ;D
You're absolutely right, I didn't notice that. My apologies! :)
Oh I was talking to the OP. Sorry i should have made it more clear.
No problem, I understand what you were trying to say now. Misunderstandings on both sides!
Having said that, I was being presumptuous in thinking that everyone on this forum is only concerned with tailoring. Over the decades there have been a number of tailors who've worked hand-in-hand with fashion companies, or end up in that field because it's more lucrative; and I dare say that's the situation for some members here, in which case the original post has some relevance. So I was/am rapping myself on the knuckles a little.
Personally, I feel that a well-tailored garment is timeless. Even if it incorporates a nod to fashions of the time, it will still look great years later.
I agree Gregor. Personally I find it disappointing that some tailoring houses are now following trends. Tailoring should not be "fashion forward" but rather "style forward". There is a reason why bespoke tailoring is now getting more coverage in the media than it probably has ever before. People are sick of the garbage that's crapped out in the stores, people want quality not quantity. This is why I'm afraid of tailors being fashion forward, because IMO it'll probably ruin the associations the trade has had now (quality, history, craft, etc) and I feel those hallmarks will end up being all thrown away.
This is why I despise "tailoring" firms like Clothsurgeon (if it can even be called a firm), because IMO their practically a walking middle finger towards the well-established bespoke tailors. Honestly "streetwear" and "bespoke trailing" do not belong in the same sentence. Oh well, that's my rambling and rant.
Clothsurgeon isn't even bespoke. Anyone can hang up bespoke, custom tailor, etc. shingle and not be a real tailor. They are swinging on the coattails of the name.
If you know the history of tailors they made everything. Levi Strauss is the first mass production of clothes. Before then you paid a tailor to make your clothes, or you made your own. There were no brand names. Every garment was an individual. Style, fashion invented on the spot. These follow popular thoughts of the day. Mass-produced, on the other hand, use marketing methods to try to convince people to buy their products. Trying to get people excited. However, it is done, clothes are about enjoyment, which usually involves culture.
You can read history books, journals etc. Tailors made anything a customer wanted. Some tailors disliked some that customers wanted. But it put bread and butter on the table. Depending on where you live, if you are a very good tailor you can pick what you want to make. As I said before, some of the best tailors only made full dress coats. Where I grew up some tailors made everything. Wealthy teenagers got the fashions tailor made. Business men got their suits made by the same tailors. These tailors even made unusual clothes. Mass-production can not do what a custom tailor can do. Even styles change because of the talk of the customers among themselves. A type of sleeve head gets boring and the discussion turns to other looks for sleeve heads. These discussions include shoulders, waist, hips, chest, hem lines and heights, and the list goes on. Clothes are ever changing. Some tailors don't want to budge. When they talk down styles and fashions they are talking down art. Few artist talk down art. What artist likes every art out there? But they respect art. They put aside their likes and look at the merits of the art. How well is it done. Tailoring, being an art, is about art. Fashions are art. Styles are art. Many other kinds of garments are art. When you look through the history of clothes, thousands of years worth, so much of it is art. During the beginning of the hippies, one sang against the tailors. Musicians and tailors are both artists. One artist singing against another artist group. After that the tailors had less work. Many found other jobs. A generation of tailors is missing. Several generations of customers vanished. Uneducated about custom clothes which are only hand made by tailors. A few suits and the rest are fashions as children grow up in their age group culture. Eventually fashions fade away. I've listened to men in their 30s and 40s being sent home to change their clothes because of fashion forward and the company had a different work ethic. These fashion suits were made by custom tailors.
Another subject about clothes is money. Recommended to some men to buy a few cheap suits (store bought) then, start saving their money to buy one custom. Save money for a few more years and buy custom again. Continue until you have all custom made. Others, you never give them that advice. Some people can buy 20 a day- money no problem.
Grandad advised, when styles were changing, to wait until a style caught on. Sometimes a style seemed to be catching on, but, then, didn't. Styles last at least five years. Why do styles change? People get bored of them. People need to talk. When they run out of things to say, they move on. Classic style is a plain jane. If done well it is magical. But then, shouldn't all the other garments be magical?
I used the word custom instead of bespoke throughout most of this. They are the same word. The brits have used custom for mtm, which is ridiculous. They should know their language better. Also included tailor. Mass-produced doesn't include these three words. Sure, a few Mass-production companies have have a few tailors. But those garments are entirely different. They are not what I call tailored, custom or bespoke. Individual hand made garments, two fittings included are the only custom, bespoke, tailored.
Stylin;!
(https://i.postimg.cc/1nBGwY3T/STYLIN.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1nBGwY3T)
HappyNewYear everybody. Keep it between the lines and painted side up! Cheers!!
Quote from: Greger on January 01, 2023, 07:09:44 AM
Clothsurgeon isn't even bespoke. Anyone can hang up bespoke, custom tailor, etc. shingle and not be a real tailor. They are swinging on the coattails of the name.
Exactly Gregor, This is why I have a deep hatred towards Clothsurgeon they aren't even bespoke or "custom". They just mascaraed themselves to appear as a "tailoring" firm. The only reason they are on the Row is they are just trying so hard to make a statement. They appear immature IMO, they clearly don't know what they're doing.
TL;DR, Clothsurgeon is BS.
As I'm sure many are aware, Savile Row tried to safeguard the profession back in 2008:
https://www.ft.com/content/530912f8-3c9b-11dd-b958-0000779fd2ac
Although that battle was lost, interest amongst the young in becoming a true, bespoke tailor has never been greater. Consequently here are a number of places here in the UK where a proper training/education can be had. Including on the Row itself (Maurice Sedwell Academy). Also, the number of bespoke tailors sharing their knowledge on youtube has never been greater, and the pool continues to grow. This can only be a good thing. It encourages chancers to up their game, provides a bench mark for those starting out and keeps standards high. Another result is that the general public are better informed about what they're buying into when offered a cheap, 'bespoke' suit.
It's probable that the Row will end up like Carnaby Street (a former shadow of itself, existing on its past reputation and visited mostly by tourists). But wherever the current, young generation of UK tailors end up, the old traditions will continue by the look of things. Unless all western economies tank and we start fighting over street pigeons for food.
Oh Ch*ist we're f***ed.
Ha ha, maybe we are Gerry, there is a portion of the world that thinks so, but you can't worry about that. You can be well dressed.
Is the "Fashion" of appearing overstuffed into your jacket, as demonstrated by Daniel Craig in the Bond movies over yet? Can I look up again?My young things are still obsessed by brand names, sadly, and think that I am a freak. (Naturally that's true) But I am determined to make my own coverings.
Education has alays been the problem. Even knowing nothing at all about the industry 40 years ago I knew that most people had no idea of why tailored clothes were to be preferred. I could tell be the absolute lack of publicaly obtainable literature on the subject that a kind of mystique had developed. I knew that was unhealthy. It's got to be natural, and the only way for the industry, that to gain any foothold the there must be knowledge about it.
Maybe its actually changing but for years with womens fashion, you saw these anorexic cloth hangers (young females looking like they needed a good feed) with some of the most rediculous things draped over them with it being called fashion.
It has much to do with the advertising, if you have an experienced tailor in one shop making high quality garments but does not have a corporate advertising budget and in another shop you have a rag trade corporation with a large advertising budget, the latter will be seen by the most people and this shapes who gets the business and who does not.
Affordability is another problem. Saville Row is top price as it should be. Marketing is important. But, other tailors don't have to play by those rules. And, why would they? Lower rent cuts costs. Mill ends are cheaper. Some garments can have less stitches in them. Grandad said good cloth (doesn't mean expensive) and good fit are important. More pockets costs more. Anyway, the customer pays for what they can get. And rich people buy more clothe$. If the customer buys a suit that last 20-30 years that is cheaper than buying a bunch of cheap ones from the store that sells mass production garments. How often is a brick layer going to wear a suit? Work clothes have less details, which, cut the cost down. Tailors made work clothes in the past. They made boys' clothing. Elves didn't make them. Saville Row style clothes is just a small part of what men and boys wore. Tailors made many of the other clothes, too.
As a teenager and younger the purpose of going to a tailor is not what the tailor makes for you but, what you want made. The tailor is not supposed to be limited in what he can make. So many people are brainwashed that they don't design their clothes. That tailors are inept. It is the stores that are inept! Every child should know that it is the stores that are incapable. How the world has changed. At least some people are finding out that tailors are superior. And tailors, who only make for the rich should be recommending the other tailors. High end tailors used to make ski clothes. Ski clothes today are made of cloth that many tailors won't even touch. Not everyone fits into mass produced clothes. Some people don't want the stuff in the stores. Tailors are not keeping up.
"My young things are still obsessed by brand names"
When as a teenager brand names were important for some of the clothes. But, nothing topped the tailor. Some tailors could and would make the top fashions. The child brings in the knowledge of what the fashion is and finds out that the tailor probably knows more than him. Store bought doesn't fit. Therefore, it can't exhibit the fashion as well upon the body. Fashions are connected to the wearers personality. Store bought is sloppy here, too. A good tailor can erase so many errors.
It is sad to see so many people think tailors are nothing, except, very limited. So many beginning tailors made fashions and work clothes developing their skills before they ever touched a wealthy man's garment.
Fashion actually no longer exists. Something is either "on trend" or not. Watching "fashion houses" replicate the stretchy goo "styles" of the middle class in recent years has clearly defined that fact to me. Of course Li Edelkoort, Grande Dame of fashion, announcing fashions demise a few years back had already confirmed my growing suspicions.
I truly believe that moving forward, clothing will once again play a major role in the delineation of societal classes. Those with true wealth will have access to professional tailors and dressmakers who will have access to 3-D modeling software, reducing the need for hand drafting of patterns. Everyone else will live their lives in stretchy goo. With such a massive move to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels in most industries, I haven't heard of anyone making any major inroads to curbing the ever growing massive mountains of stretchy goo clothing emerging from China and the like.
Right Spookietoo, and that's just the clothes. Think about the polyurethane and polyammide footwear for a second...
stretchy goo - maybe it is time to die and go to heaven.
Epitaph - died and gone to heaven. ps. Can't stand modern clothing.
Never walk through the young men's part of the store anymore. The women's would be a disaster. "Over here we have clothes for gay men. And over there are the transgender." "Well, it's for my daughter." "Perhaps blue or pink will help you decide." "Hmmm, the new Supreme Court Justice says that we don't know what a woman is." When my generation dies will anyone know what the word sense means? Sadly there are plenty even in this generation that have forgotten. Stretchy Goo will be the name of the next generation?
Fret not, Gregor, there's hope. Why even my daughter is so 'rock star' her chemical plant steel toe safety boots are Dr. Martins that she picked out! Quality is the key. Good value for money is taught. The chowder heads without the sense of a one-eyed pipe smoking cat, with a digital device stuck to their faces, are lost causes and ain't your kids, so not your problem, right? Anyway, here's some pretty girls to look at.. the links are a lot of photo so be patient if slow data speeds.
https://web.archive.org/web/20150910131643/http://www.cutterandtailor.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=905
https://web.archive.org/web/20150910154304/http://www.cutterandtailor.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=905&page=2
(https://i.postimg.cc/CZpMqpwW/tumblr-lur5rqdxp61qjjhcuo1-500.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CZpMqpwW)
(https://i.postimg.cc/TyxGPj9x/tumblr-lte3qz-Re-J81qj0zf0o1-500.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TyxGPj9x)
Hendrick - you are so right about the shoes! I had forgotten. Foot problems and age have curbed my fascination with footwear over the last twenty years. Loved nothing better than rocking a 4" pair of stilettos back in the day and maintained a respectable 75 pairs of shoes in my personal inventory (average for a woman - men maintained approx 35 pairs - I designed closets back then!) But now, I can no longer find much choice in even my favorite comfort shoes as I must have leather. My feet have always swollen dreadfully the few times I attempted to wear plastics. My favorites, originally made in the UK, are now mostly made in China and the quality has suffered terribly.
As much beef as is consumed on this planet, it is certain there is not a leather shortage. But like everything else, if a manufacturer can save 1/50th of a penny during a manufacturing process they will do so. Consumers must always expect the worst.
Quote from: Steelmillal on January 27, 2023, 11:04:11 AM
Fret not, Gregor, there's hope. Why even my daughter is so 'rock star' her chemical plant steel toe safety boots are Dr. Martins that she picked out! Quality is the key.
I have three pairs of Doc Martens, two of them thirty years old: a pair of Loake dress shoes with DM soles (DM made them, IIR), in immaculate condition; and a pair of boots so worn they look like they've been polished with an industrial grinder (still going strong though!). Plus they're still made in the UK (there was a very good TV documentary in recent memory that showed the making of a boot from start to finish).
I began wearing them in the early 90s on account of a knee injury (the cushioned sole absorbs a lot of the shock); and every generation of youngsters since that time (including my 21 year old nephew the other week) will always make the remark "Ooh, Doc Martens, very trendy!". They're never out of fashion and they've been kicking people's heads in since the late 60s (makes you proud to be British):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO1YAx4QW1I
Not for everyone, but you don't half get your money's worth.
..anybody notice 'her"?
(https://i.postimg.cc/dLFgCTQ6/NYC-JACKETD-TIGHTS.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dLFgCTQ6)
That's sexy w/o being slutty. IMHO.
Quote from: Greger on January 26, 2023, 06:05:59 PM
stretchy goo - maybe it is time to die and go to heaven.
Epitaph - died and gone to heaven. ps. Can't stand modern clothing.
Never walk through the young men's part of the store anymore. The women's would be a disaster. "Over here we have clothes for gay men. And over there are the transgender." "Well, it's for my daughter." "Perhaps blue or pink will help you decide." "Hmmm, the new Supreme Court Justice says that we don't know what a woman is." When my generation dies will anyone know what the word sense means? Sadly there are plenty even in this generation that have forgotten. Stretchy Goo will be the name of the next generation?
So true, seriously Biden really messed things up. I didn't care for Trump that much, he did some good things but he wasn't a good leader. But Biden is such a bastard, the old man can't even speak a sentence without rolling his eyes into the inside of his head.
Quote from: Greger on January 26, 2023, 06:05:59 PM
stretchy goo - maybe it is time to die and go to heaven.
Epitaph - died and gone to heaven. ps. Can't stand modern clothing.
Quote from: Greger on January 26, 2023, 06:05:59 PM
When my generation dies will anyone know what the word sense means? Sadly there are plenty even in this generation that have forgotten. Stretchy Goo will be the name of the next generation?
I've found the ones that appear to like "stretchy goo" and modern clothing are just a bunch of modern punks. But don't be too grim Greger, classic menswear isn't going anywhere. I have high hopes that the pinnacle of menswear is going to make an amazing comeback right under everybody's noses. People are just sick of looking like kids you know? I'm looking forward to when pleated backs and belts on coats are popular again.
Quote from: spookietoo on January 27, 2023, 08:22:30 PM
Hendrick - you are so right about the shoes! I had forgotten. Foot problems and age have curbed my fascination with footwear over the last twenty years. Loved nothing better than rocking a 4" pair of stilettos back in the day and maintained a respectable 75 pairs of shoes in my personal inventory (average for a woman - men maintained approx 35 pairs - I designed closets back then!) But now, I can no longer find much choice in even my favorite comfort shoes as I must have leather. My feet have always swollen dreadfully the few times I attempted to wear plastics. My favorites, originally made in the UK, are now mostly made in China and the quality has suffered terribly.
As much beef as is consumed on this planet, it is certain there is not a leather shortage. But like everything else, if a manufacturer can save 1/50th of a penny during a manufacturing process they will do so. Consumers must always expect the worst.
I, ummm must admit that I like a study trotter too, my favourites are the Shannon from Church's or even better the classic derby style lace up's from Doucals. The Doucals are still near-affordable, the Church's cost an arm and leg since Prada bought the place up... Both will serve you for a decade at least.
Spookietoo, are you aware that heels are good for your back and posture in general? I'm a fan for kitten heels and pencil skirts, www.leonardoshoes.com are hand made in Italy at a decent price, ship worldwide and produce a decent half heel pump. For that "little extra", check out www.santonishoes.com women's range.
Oh, by the way, my favourite boort for next winter is the sockboot with kitten heel at Courreges... By the way, get warped and watch this if you have the time www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FzFyJlYMa8
Cheers, Hendrick
What is "Stretchygoo"? I can't google that in any meaningful sense.
I think it is reference to "gummy stretch fabrics"? But also to guys wearing stretch suits that look like their sons' prom suit (after a thorough machine wash)...
Finally! Some women's fashions I like.
Thanks Hendrick.
Thanks Hendrick, it makes sense.
I had an outrage at Daniel Craig in the Casino Royale movie where he wears his suit at least a size small, to show his "Gains" as my kids say.
Quote from: Schneiderfrei on February 02, 2023, 04:32:12 PM
I had an outrage at Daniel Craig in the Casino Royale movie where he wears his suit at least a size small, to show his "Gains" as my kids say.
Check out his array of suits at around the 16 min mark here:
https://www.youtube.com/live/Mc5ccH8zxfA?feature=share&t=954
Too short, too tight, and in the case of that first double-breasted, ridiculous. It left me confused (why??!).
Confused because you're used to see him dressed in Brioni before? Maybe?
Why would anyone that rich wear brand names clothes? A non James Bond movie Sean Connery was asked to wear some junk coat, which he refused, and went to SR and got one made for that movie. One actor said that the 007 movies are ruff on clothes and they use lots of them, so, cheap clothes is what they use. But even cheap clothes for a movie can be made to look nice. Whoever is doing the clothes for 007 in the picture shown really doesn't much. Don't mind the concepts. But the fittings are terrible.
I agree that the stuff on the photos is horrible but I do think that the Brioni clothing in earlier movies was nice...
Quote from: Schneiderfrei on February 02, 2023, 09:50:02 AM
What is "Stretchygoo"? I can't google that in any meaningful sense.
Graham I think it's referring to polyester stretch fabrics that are in athleisure? The first mention I've seen of it on this forum was someone who said "stretchy-poly goo", and then it morphed into "stretchy goo".
(https://i.postimg.cc/w30tvf9J/2-EB03-C14-DA8-C-4-BB0-AAB2-0-C51-AFF02-BDB.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w30tvf9J)
Eww that looks disgusting. Seriously who in their right mind thought this looked good? It looks like the tailor was making a DB, ran out of buttons, and said "I guess I'll just do one". :'(
Quote from: SO_tailor on February 03, 2023, 06:41:24 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/w30tvf9J/2-EB03-C14-DA8-C-4-BB0-AAB2-0-C51-AFF02-BDB.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w30tvf9J)
Eww that looks disgusting. Seriously who in their right mind thought this looked good? It looks like the tailor was making a DB, ran out of buttons, and said "I guess I'll just do one". :'(
Exactly. The overlap is too much, it wears like a dressing-gown. And the asymmetry is awful, the lapels look really weird. Pure novelty.
Quote from: Hendrick on February 03, 2023, 06:01:56 AM
I agree that the stuff on the photos is horrible but I do think that the Brioni clothing in earlier movies was nice...
Gaetano Savini, who started Brioni, created some really sharp designs in his lifetime (before 90s Bond though). A tailor by trade he pretty much invented the 'continental look' in the early '50s, long before it was adopted by all and sundry in the 1960s. This still, from the 1951 film Bellissima, features one of Brioni's 'proto-mod' suits:
https://flic.kr/p/2oeUVBf
...just'an instaspam FT post. I so miss getting the FT when it was still a broadsheet.
(https://i.postimg.cc/5X0k1z8B/trousers-FT.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5X0k1z8B)
As to the movie, we were at war. A suit is nothing more than modern armour for bankers, etc. Craig/Bond was a recruiting 'poster' for "battle rattle" infill.
Quote from: Gerry on February 03, 2023, 08:46:27 AM
Quote from: SO_tailor on February 03, 2023, 06:41:24 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/w30tvf9J/2-EB03-C14-DA8-C-4-BB0-AAB2-0-C51-AFF02-BDB.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w30tvf9J)
Eww that looks disgusting. Seriously who in their right mind thought this looked good? It looks like the tailor was making a DB, ran out of buttons, and said "I guess I'll just do one". :'(
Exactly. The overlap is too much, it wears like a dressing-gown. And the asymmetry is awful, the lapels look really weird. Pure novelty.
I don't get why designers think slim lapels look nice on men. On average men have wider chests, and wider lapels help with that girth.
Speaking of design is anyone going to mention how cheap that fabric looks? The sheen makes me think it's a polyester cloth. It looks like a spray-painted plastic wrap.
Could be a blend with viscose... Looks like something from Zara in a poly-viscose blend "coolwool imitatation"
Narrow lapels weren't all bad on the mohair suits from the 60s in "Sammy Davis Jr" style and let's not forget Charlie Watts in his mod 60's period...
Cheers, Hendrick
Quote from: Hendrick on February 04, 2023, 08:42:27 AM
Could be a blend with viscose... Looks like something from Zara in a poly-viscose blend "coolwool imitatation"
Narrow lapels weren't all bad on the mohair suits from the 60s in "Sammy Davis Jr" style and let's not forget Charlie Watts in his mod 60's period...
Cheers, Hendrick
I don't really like the mod styles of the 60's. I prefer the mid-20's—40's, but I guess each to their own. I guess you can say I'm more of an "vintage" guy.
Quote from: SO_tailor on February 04, 2023, 03:04:01 PM
I don't really like the mod styles of the 60's. I prefer the mid-20's—40's, but I guess each to their own. I guess you can say I'm more of an "vintage" guy.
It was a stylish period for men and women if you had the right body shape (straight-up-straight-down). The look never suited more masculine or curvy frames, though. Roger Moore looked dreadful during that period, even though he wore a lot of two button coats (the lapels were still too skinny for him).
A lot of British Mods carried the look well because they were so puny. They'd grown up with post war austerity and food rationing. When John Stephen started his Carnaby Street business, his trousers came in a 28 inch waist (the most popular size). And because of their smaller chests, Mods looked sharp with those skinny lapels (there was at least some balance).
I wore the look in the early 80s. Fine when I was 14, but within a year I'd shot up to six foot and developed broad shoulders. All of a sudden those skinny lapels looked terrible on me: nothing but an expanse of cloth across my chest. That Brioni suit I posted has a little more width in that respect, but I still wouldn't wear it now. I prefer the double breasted look.
He's been sitting for quite some time in that suit. Look at the pulls on the inner legs of the trousers. Could easily be a silk/wool blend of the poor quality weaves that was passed off as something better.
If it had much polyester in it, the pulls on the legs wouldn't be as pronounced. And yes, a viscose blend would do the same thing, but would generally be even worse. :(
I personally nevergot "modded", not my thing. I stiil think that the 60's icons were great movers and shakers, however silly their suits may look now... Trust me; I'm a "retro" type too
There are some differences to consider. Store bought is least likely to fit right, much more, adjusted to look good. Real tailors, but not very good ones, some of these struggle with making garments look good on the person. The best tailors can really shine because, they have so many mental images to help guide adjustments of the fit that looks good, concerning style or fashion. Never look at shoddy work as an example. Like a good diamond cut bad is not the best it can be. That same diamond with an excellent cut will have marvelous sparkle. Then, there are some fashions and styles that were never about good looks. They are about something else.
Quote from: Gerry on February 04, 2023, 08:54:17 PM
Quote from: SO_tailor on February 04, 2023, 03:04:01 PM
I don't really like the mod styles of the 60's. I prefer the mid-20's—40's, but I guess each to their own. I guess you can say I'm more of an "vintage" guy.
That Brioni suit I posted has a little more width in that respect, but I still wouldn't wear it now. I prefer the double breasted look.
IMO you can't go wrong with a double breasted. It gives off that V-shape silhouette that many including myself find flattering.
Ok, here's what the 1920s did to women. I'm still not convinced some of them aren't young tradesmen, but I just can't tell. ;)
The woman in the centre with the darker headband is my grandmother, she was a Eurythmics teacher at the Humpybong State School (yep), Brisbane Qld.
The outfits are Edwardian fantasie and the two older ladies are quite Victorian.
(https://i.postimg.cc/f38DpBF3/Eurythmics-Group-1927-Jun-Jul.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/f38DpBF3)
The 1920s? Think you had to be there to understand it. Probably had to be young, too. A couple of great aunts would get excited when they saw me, a preschooler, old magazines of that time, wondering why they wore the clothes, hair style and outrageous jewelry. If I remember correctly, even the shoes were outrageous. Watch them, old bones coming to life.
Hi Greger, It was a sweeping out of the old Victorian stuffiness. I think you would have had to be young. I think it compares to the 60s.
This is Stephen Jones the milliner from the UK. wearing the suit.
It's by Dior. I agree, you have to be the slim type to wear it.
I thought it was a nice twist to the traditional suit.
(https://i.postimg.cc/JD6Y3q2L/stephen-jones.png) (https://postimg.cc/JD6Y3q2L)
And here is a video of the creation of the suit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpwOQCShzjI
Quote from: Schneiderfrei on February 05, 2023, 04:47:41 PM
Hi Greger, It was a sweeping out of the old Victorian stuffiness. I think you would have had to be young. I think it compares to the 60s.
Exactly. Ladies styles of the '20s were in part an ushering in of a new look, post WWI; but mostly a 1st wave feminist backlash against the repressive garments of the Victorian and Edwardian era. The shift dress was the dominant style of the 20s and its simplicity and shapeless comfort were considered progressive. Again, for women with a straight-up-straight-down figure, it's a great look.
A similar thing happened in the mid 50s when Quant set up shop. The shift style was revived as another backlash, this time against the WWII generation. It started late because cloth continued to be rationed until 1949.
Quote from: pfaff260 on February 05, 2023, 04:53:11 PM
This is Stephen Jones the milliner from the UK. wearing the suit.
It's by Dior. I agree, you have to be the slim type to wear it.
I thought it was a nice twist to the traditional suit.
(https://i.postimg.cc/JD6Y3q2L/stephen-jones.png) (https://postimg.cc/JD6Y3q2L)
It looks a hell of a lot better on him. Slightly long perhaps, but it just about works.
Again, like the 60s mods, if you're really slim then skinny lapels aren't such an issue. It helps if the wearer has narrow shoulders too. Craig doesn't, plus he likes everything a size too small, by the look of things. Someone ought to sit him down and explain the difference between wool and spandex.
Great points Gerry.
Daniel Craig, that coat couldn't have been fitted by a real tailor. It looks like it wasn't fitted at all. Do it even have a jigger button? With movies they try to change styles and fashions a bit. If they don't have real artists and people with know how, then it can become a shambles.
1920s, even the music and dance was radical. 60s college women had some wild stuff about it. Most every generation comes our with something unique to them.
Greger I am certain the look was very deliberate.
We had all young men copy this look for several years after that stuff came out.
G
I wonder, can fashion brands strike a balance? Can they be fashion-first and still make the most of technology to improve their operations and offerings?
The real challenge, in my view, is finding that sweet spot between preserving the creativity and uniqueness that fashion brings and harnessing the power of technology for efficiency and innovation. It's not an either/or situation, it's about combining the best of both worlds.
And, of course, let's not forget about the customer experience. Technology should enhance it, not detract from it. Can fashion companies like trymodest (https://trymodest.com/) seamlessly merge fashion and technology to create an experience that truly resonates with their customers?
I think having the well-developed hand skills (https://www.instagram.com/p/CxL7RxpMNnS/) are more important than fancy fad/fashion new gadgets being sold as latest money maker time saver. Pencil and paper always work. Speed and accuracy come with practice or innate talent some have. Rock of eye (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=854sjZvK51I) drafting, as example. Does anyone know hpw to easily save eutub vids to mp4s? This fellow is very good and uses Compton shears, too;D
New 'puter stuff is just old anthropometry (https://dacowits.defense.gov/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=EbsKcm6A10U%3D&portalid=48) run through excel/cad and printers. Posaune's macros, as another example, seem just fine, IMHO.
Yes, what I do in the Macro, is drawing with ,,pencil, ruler and Circle". I Feed it with the formulas and decide for it what rules - which are programed into- it has to use for the pattern, say maybe if the Client has a rounded back or big bust or a Bad posture. It saves time when all is programed. But it was and is a Long way.
When reading the new Literature about using a Body scanner, feeding the measures into 3 D CAD, design the garment, draft the pattern by transfering it into 2D, sewing the garment per Software, evaluate the fit on some 3D software models, I am happy that People and fabric are NOT Standard. So our work still makes Sense. Even if KI is taking over fashion
I think they Are developing this for 30 years now.
Lg
Posaune
New technology can be very useful. AI certainly has some benefits. AI can scan the internet to find relevant ideas. What is nice about bespoke/custom is that it can be far more personal instead of what is at present moment run of the mill. AI might even find a pattern that is close. Unless you have a plotter (printer) hand drawing is fine, and might be better. One method of drawing patterns is to mark relevant locations. Such as shoulder slope and balance. That would be neck point and halfway down the shoulder. The end of the shoulder is decided for that garment as to style or fashion or something else. This makes the pattern adjustable for numerous styles, etc. The sideseams are left for various styles, etc. Clothes are visual art. Envision the garment, then envision the pattern lines. Add inlays for body fit, and then, style/fashion fit.
Female clothing can be far more complicated than male. Females do so many things with cloth that males never do.
Since fashions don't last long only put in enough stitches to be good enough for their short life. You can think of fashions as temporary. Children have growing bodies which means temporary measurements, so temporary clothes.
The old tailor and cutter journals and books never talked down fashions. The bigger money is with styles, so that is where the emphasis goes. But fashion is profitable, too. Younger minds are active and fashions are useful for them. Older men have to many important things to think about and styles work best for them.
Mass produced fashions are chancy. Youth can change on a dime. Fashion companies put a lot of eggs in one basket. Poorer kids are limited in buying power.
I think small town tailors have it better. They get to make a larger variety of clothes.