Video popped up on feed. Looks like my first studio but MUCH more organized.
Haven't watched all way through but very recent by dates. Cheers, Y'all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciKtmHko0vg
I'm interested in the drafting systems mentioned in the video - the "college system" and the "fly line" method. I've heard mention of the "fly line" method but can't work out if it's the same as Tailor and Cutter. I'd never heard of the "college" system before but funnily enough I think it's similar to the one I was taught... in college. If anybody can give any further information, I'd be very grateful.
Kate
The terms simply denote what gets used for a reference line when drafting.
'Fly line' is a centre-front outwards approach: trunk measurements being measured outwards, and marked, from that line. The leg position is then determined and a crease/grain line dropped from that point to floor.
Other systems, such as the one shown, use a side-in approach whereby everything is referenced to a side-line (which represents the farthest limit of the side seam).
Thank you very much Gerry that's very clear.
Thanks, never realised I was tought the "fly line method"...
Tom Mahon refers to the two methods as "centre-line" and "side-seam":
https://youtu.be/Vvj5kkmkHgQ?t=831
Quote from: Gerry on September 09, 2022, 08:33:11 PM
Tom Mahon refers to the two methods as "centre-line" and "side-seam":
https://youtu.be/Vvj5kkmkHgQ?t=831 (https://youtu.be/Vvj5kkmkHgQ?t=831)
The Germans work the front/top trouser from the side-line and the back trouser is constructed from the center-line.
Quote from: Der Zuschneider on September 10, 2022, 02:57:49 AM
The Germans work the front/top trouser from the side-line and the back trouser is constructed from the center-line.
That's always made best sense to me. the back is the part that changes the least, the still point. All variations in shape and size occur forward.
I do exactly the reverse. The topside is worked either side of the centre line, the underside worked inwards from the side-seam.
I do this because I wear relatively (they still have a 16" hem) narrow-leg trousers. With conventional cutting, taking out the side-seam on the underside to create ease across the seat, creates drape at the side of the trousers (particularly along the lower hip and thigh). And because the taper to the knee is more pronounced with a narrower leg, this drape is very apparent (even though, in theory, some of it works its way to the back of the trousers) and, frankly, ugly.
By replicating the top's side seam on the underside (it's an exact facsimile) and working inwards towards the CB seam, that drape is shifted across the backside and, lower down, more towards the inside leg where it looks more natural (it can actually drape due to the slight inverted V of the inside legs, rather than catching on the outside curves of the hip and thigh, where it looks unsightly).
Pros: pattern matching is exact all the way up the leg. The fit is smoother over the thighs without needing to take them in (invariably the solution when using a conventional draft).
Cons: the cloth at the side seam isn't as towards the bias (though the material across the seat still is) as normal, so endures a little more stress. I either double stitch that seam (along the trunk part) for security, or (if the cloth isn't patterned) slightly tilt the whole back pattern from the hem, so that the whole underside is more towards the bias (increasingly so as we travel up the leg from the hem).
I came to this way of cutting through experimentation, making countless alterations to toiles, trying to avoid the 'jodhpuring' effect of conventional drafts. However, I've subsequently seen a lot of Nigerian tailors on youtube doing exactly what I've outlined above. Clearly I'm the wrong nationality.
The Rundschau System reduces the jodhpur effect by first tilting the Centerline of the undersides from the knee upwards. Usually it tilts about 1,5 cm at the hipline and thus shifts some material towards the seatseam. The Side seam gets a bit straighter.
I've noticed that sides do look cleaner with that system, peterle, compared to conventional drafts. I'm stuck in my ways now, though, plus sewing the side-seams is ridiculously easy when they match exactly. :)
Speaking of trouser cutting, this is a fun watch ('no seams' pantaloons):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJaz76RPhT0
Draft here (diagram on next page)
https://archive.org/details/cutters-practical-guide-trousers/page/42/mode/2up?view=theater
So much good work to make trousers without a seam. I wonder why he then destroys the effect by adding a braid along the whole side ( wich usually hides a seam)?
Quote from: peterle on September 12, 2022, 05:16:18 PM
So much good work to make trousers without a seam. I wonder why he then destroys the effect by adding a braid along the whole side ( wich usually hides a seam)?
You're right, I hadn't even noticed that. Let's face it, he's a little eccentric. :)
I really like his channel. Always fascinating to see how tailors worked in the past, plus he has bags of enthusiasm. A nice chap.
I totally agree.
Life is too short for not being eccentric.
Yep
I've found the older I've gotten, the more eccentric hell raising I can get away with in public. People just chalk it up as age related. FYI make sure your kids know "the secret phrase" so they don't haul you off to a home before it's time :D
Good point! I'm well past the age of bothering with people staring at me these days... But hey, I've worn a long Gaultier "men's skirt" in the eighties... Nowadays "style" is a choice between different sneakers...
Quote from: Hendrick on September 14, 2022, 05:53:52 AM
Good point! I'm well past the age of bothering with people staring at me these days... But hey, I've worn a long Gaultier "men's skirt" in the eighties... Nowadays "style" is a choice between different sneakers...
I loved those men skirts from Gaultier. Later on i made myself his lady Di smoking he wore to the MTV awards from his haute couture for men collection. He did such marvelous things for men's fashion.
(https://i.postimg.cc/DSB6yCbV/lady-di-smoking.png) (https://postimg.cc/DSB6yCbV)
Not to mention his work for Hermes...
Quote from: Der Zuschneider on September 10, 2022, 02:57:49 AM
The Germans work the front/top trouser from the side-line and the back trouser is constructed from the center-line.
I know I'm late to this but that's interesting, because I did draft my first trousers based on Sven Jungclaus's book, and the back parts were drafted by the center line of the fronts. It definitely is more easier to draw when your doing it on the center. Although on the topic of the drafting of the fronts being on the sides, I don't believe it's exclusive to Germany, as most cutting books I've read have the foreparts drafted on the side and not the center.
You mean the cemter top part or the crease?
Quote from: Hendrick on January 02, 2023, 07:40:34 AM
You mean the cemter top part or the crease?
The Crease
I rarely draft mens' trousers. I have Sven Jungclaus' books, but only flipped them through. Interestingly, I have a french method (www.dpstudio-fashion.com) for wopmen's drafting (3 books...) that start the setup of trouser drafts from the center leg and the backleg is drafted as an overlay. I was taught the same method 45 years ago...
Quote from: Hendrick on January 06, 2023, 09:22:42 AM
I rarely draft mens' trousers. I have Sven Jungclaus' books, but only flipped them through. Interestingly, I have a french method (www.dpstudio-fashion.com) for wopmen's drafting (3 books...) that start the setup of trouser drafts from the center leg and the backleg is drafted as an overlay. I was taught the same method 45 years ago...
That's interesting Hendrick, I'll definitely try out that French method at some point. I've never actually tried drafting any womenswear, as I'm more engaged in men's tailoring (as I am a male myself), but I will consider doing some women's tailoring at some point in the future.
Quote from: SO_tailor on January 07, 2023, 05:29:04 AM
I've never actually tried drafting any womenswear, as I'm more engaged in men's tailoring (as I am a male myself), but I will consider doing some women's tailoring at some point in the future.
Women's clothing must necessarily be far more adaptive than men's. It is very well worth looking through women's drafting books, e.g. Hofenbitzer, to see some brilliant solutions for fitting problems.
Thanks (:
Indeed,Schneiderfrei. I also have Hofenbitzers books... They are extremely logic and comprehensive, I keep going back to the lately...
I thank posaune for sharing those, und Gott sei dank, one in English is avalable. :)