As a recent kilt convert, I delved as far as the internet could take me into the history and high craft of kilts. The only forum ref is the following:
http://movsd.com/BespokeCutter/index.php?topic=121.msg508#msg508
This is the earliest video I've found so far that shows movement: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMXu3xK_Qro
I miss the long, informative posts of the old forum, the immeasurable advice freely given, and will try very hard to measure up. I reached out to Dr. Tewksbury but haven't heard back yet. Her postings over at http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/forum.php are worth reading. To see the photo one must register.
Similarly, Robert MacDonald, who did give permission to mention, has a youtube channel worth viewing: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOvXkFL3CWJFp6YrcJZ9vQQ
Last for today, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7UZDNOakgw, is worth watching for tiny details seen in the background.
Best, AL
Fantastic, thank you!
my wife's parents brought a "real" kilt from Schotland for one of my sons. He was 4 years old at the time and would't take it off, wearing it to school and all! I'll check if I have a pic somewhere...
For anyone who may view this, here is the title that inspired the thread title.
https://ia802205.us.archive.org/21/items/dresswornathisma00trenuoft/dresswornathisma00trenuoft.pdf
Similarly, the book that has the early colour prints that all seem to reference. Beyond 1730AD, it get's dull to me.
https://archive.org/details/clanshighlandss00smibgoog
I'll keep sorting and will post something longer tomorrow or after.
Happy Monday, Y'all
Here's a self explanatory video where time is money. Contrast to the one from 1939.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vPy6qjtstA
This is the video that got me started looking for the 1881 military standard. I did find a copy the "Standing orders and Regulations.." on google.books and will get into that next post. There's not a lot there for kilts, but what I found I haven't read other places.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNL6m1-GaRk
Here's something directly from an army tailor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHdzYWkIPuE
Cheers, Y'all.
Stewart Christie had this in their journal thread. 1871 is fully 50 years before radio. How many are reading this on phones?
(https://i.postimg.cc/c6Zt0NGN/reg1-960w.png) (https://postimg.cc/c6Zt0NGN)
https://www.stewartchristie.com/sotheby-s-regalia
Regarding the pleating, i was under the impression that there were two ways to pleat the kilt, one way keeps the overall tartan pattern complete after pleating (civilian) and the other was to have each pleat with the same vertical line visible on each pleat.(military)
Is this Me remembering correctly or not?
Pleating to the sett and pleating to the stripe is the short answer. I have found only one vintage book from Tailor and Cutter that mentions the stripe method specifically, but nothing yet that defines military or civilian outside of regulations. The following are from Vincent, I think. I dumped adobe so will get the T&C quotes extracted soonest.
(https://i.postimg.cc/XGFwd7Mx/91.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XGFwd7Mx)
(https://i.postimg.cc/zHFK2tGg/92.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zHFK2tGg)
Dr. Tewksbury book is the best distilled body of knowledge that's modern, but even what I've read doesn't nail down who and when determinations were put down. I haven't heard back yet so can't post anything that would violate copyright. The pile of military photos is fair game for near future, however.
Here's something from Canada. You can just see a faint blue weft stripe in the photo of the two WW2 kilts
https://pipesforfreedom.com/webtxt/0204canadian_units_with_pipe_bands.htm
Hop down to "0515 THE IRISH REGIMENT OF CANADA the Plough Jockeys" and look for the photo of the saffron kilts about a fourth of the way down.
Going back in history there are more ways of making kilts. One method the pleats are going both ways. Different kinds of sets make for different methods. Paintings can show history.
Just in case you weren't aware:
https://youtu.be/F4jEXR7-Rjs
Thx for posting Gerry. I hadn't seen that before. When one fellow said "Vicky was a bit purvey" I laughed out loud. Needed that.
(https://i.postimg.cc/hXjCnGYy/HERMAN-screaming-bagpipes.png) (https://postimg.cc/hXjCnGYy)
Greger, you are correct that 'more than one way', etc. I've seen a men's kimono that was pleated both ways. I'll dig for a photo.
Here's a horrible screenshot of my claimed 'stripe' directions on page 76
(https://i.postimg.cc/fSNW9pdF/Screenshot-2394.png) (https://postimg.cc/fSNW9pdF)
Here's the link. Sorry if can't be seen by location. Please chime in for a workaround. The description says 1899 for publish date,
https://books.google.com/books?id=AZIQAQAAMAAJ&pg=PT6&dq=garment+making&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj_oaqL1LryAhVRXc0KHeeMDbYQ6AEwAHoECAQQAg#v=onepage&q=garment%20making&f=false
Best, AL
Great photo that stumbled up
(https://i.postimg.cc/4747HWjg/church-wedding.png) (https://postimg.cc/4747HWjg)
Carefull with the math... many tartan designs are shown horizontal weft but used vertically and the checks weren't always perfectly symmetrically square. I have bunches and bunches of tartan in various weaving constructions (square weaves and two (or three) by ones etcetera. The same "clan types" vary in proportion, depending on the weaving construction, only adding to the confusion. The guy who sends me these bunches is a contract weaver from Biella (Italy) who has beebn contract weaving for british mills for generations; he keeps stock in all these designs in a 110's worsted pure wool that gets sold-on by British mills... (needless to see; cannot give his name), Interesting historic detail; when tartan was getting widely used in regimental, fine twill weaving started to take off and what is known as "London shrunk" was developed in an Italian way is became "foulard finish", where a boiling hot cloth gets sandwitched with the woollen fabric mechanically, just sayin"
Hendrick
testing teasing
(https://i.postimg.cc/jndJP5rR/s-l1600-1.webp) (https://postimg.cc/jndJP5rR)
(https://i.postimg.cc/7bmzDggh/s-l1600-2.webp) (https://postimg.cc/7bmzDggh)
(https://i.postimg.cc/4YhHzqjH/s-l1600-3.webp) (https://postimg.cc/4YhHzqjH)
(https://i.postimg.cc/N5nr2BCw/s-l1600-4.webp) (https://postimg.cc/N5nr2BCw)
(https://i.postimg.cc/6yqvQy00/s-l1600-5.webp) (https://postimg.cc/6yqvQy00)
(https://i.postimg.cc/HJDc33CZ/s-l1600-6.webp) (https://postimg.cc/HJDc33CZ)
(https://i.postimg.cc/cKRKzYxs/s-l1600-7.webp) (https://postimg.cc/cKRKzYxs)
(https://i.postimg.cc/47wYfgHq/s-l1600-8.webp) (https://postimg.cc/47wYfgHq)
(https://i.postimg.cc/bDqGfJr1/s-l1600-9.webp) (https://postimg.cc/bDqGfJr1)
Hunting antiques for a Sept wedding and finding some amazing century old pieces.
(https://i.postimg.cc/67t6yPKX/s-l1600-25.webp) (https://postimg.cc/67t6yPKX)
(https://i.postimg.cc/4YCxTdFn/s-l1600-26.webp) (https://postimg.cc/4YCxTdFn)
(https://i.postimg.cc/4KPft14h/s-l1600-27.webp) (https://postimg.cc/4KPft14h)
(https://i.postimg.cc/CBKF4fdr/s-l1600-28.webp) (https://postimg.cc/CBKF4fdr)
(https://i.postimg.cc/zHb8sZCn/s-l1600-30.webp) (https://postimg.cc/zHb8sZCn)
Does anyone know anyone at the V&A Museum? This may qualify as "should conserve".
https://www.ebay.com/itm/145787672588
Answered some questions I had, especially the back flaps overlap treatment details.
Quote from: Steelmillal on July 28, 2024, 09:03:12 AMDoes anyone know anyone at the V&A Museum? This may qualify as "should conserve".
https://www.ebay.com/itm/145787672588
Answered some questions I had, especially the back flaps overlap treatment details.
Incredible! Too late, but the Fashion and Textile Museum in London would have loved that costume for a recent exhibition (now over):
https://costumesociety.org.uk/blog/post/oh-boy-at-the-fashion-and-textile-museum-london-review
Thx very much Gerry. It may be over but contact data is still there. Here's two more for viewing. I'll step back with more time and extract the photos before cbay removes them from their databases.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/135128210161
https://www.ebay.com/itm/176241103801
(https://i.postimg.cc/wywWcDjF/s-l960.webp) (https://postimg.cc/wywWcDjF)
(https://i.postimg.cc/YLjdXj47/s-l1600.webp) (https://postimg.cc/YLjdXj47)
(https://i.postimg.cc/gx3NtC0x/s-l1600-1.webp) (https://postimg.cc/gx3NtC0x)
I pulled three photos that shows the back flap treatments, which is important I think. I've never seen the overlap flaps like on the very early pieces.
I was thinking about hacking into an old tweed to copy this, but now am thinking the multi-splits more authentic. It's hard not to look a prat in a kilt unless properly kitted out.
(https://i.postimg.cc/phSfLCTN/s-l1600-2.webp) (https://postimg.cc/phSfLCTN)