Balance

[peterle]

Did you mark the true shoulder point at the neck when you measrued with the weighted tape? or did you measure to the yoke seam point?

[Petruchio]

Did you mark the true shoulder point at the neck when you measrued with the weighted tape? or did you measure to the yoke seam point?

I measured Hs +1 from the center back (or from what I thought was C7). I did the measurements before drawing the pattern, so I was guessing that this might be approximately the true shoulder point at the neck.

[peterle]

Sounds ok. And the balance measures did differ 8cm? And you marked the same spot in the pattern to measure the balance of the pattern?

Are we talking about the shirt in "shirt fitting issues" reply no.9?

[posaune]

Hi Petruchio,
I  can not believe the 8 cm balance difference you spoke about. I looked at your pic in the former thread (I think it was you). I measured your back length to waist (9.6), your front length (10.4), and your armlength(13).
This is not very exact I know. Now I looked at a standard measuretable for gents, where the back is measured from the 7. Vert. to waist and the front length from the shoulder neckpoint to waist, to see how big the balance is there.
I got for a size 52 (which I think you maybe are)  Back 45.5 front 48.6 and length of arm 64.8, balance difference between back and front 3.1 cm
With my measurements derrived from the pic (asuming the arm length is 64.  I got: back 47.8 and front 51.8.  A balance difference about 4 cm.
(+- 1 to 2 cm. This is only measured and calculated "pi x thumb"- nothing exact). But that is what the pic is telling me.
lg
posaune

[Petruchio]

Sounds ok. And the balance measures did differ 8cm? And you marked the same spot in the pattern to measure the balance of the pattern?

Are we talking about the shirt in "shirt fitting issues" reply no.9?

Yes, that is the shirt after all balance alterations. I will check it again, because I don't find the balance measurements right now, but I know I changed 8cm in total. Also, on the trial shirt in said thread, I added the last 2cm to the front evenly, but in the pattern I used the pivoting method. This might be one reason there might be something wrong with the final shirt (altough it looks much better on the photo than in reality).

Hi Petruchio,
I  can not believe the 8 cm balance difference you spoke about. I looked at your pic in the former thread (I think it was you). I measured your back length to waist (9.6), your front length (10.4), and your armlength(13).
This is not very exact I know. Now I looked at a standard measuretable for gents, where the back is measured from the 7. Vert. to waist and the front length from the shoulder neckpoint to waist, to see how big the balance is there.
I got for a size 52 (which I think you maybe are)  Back 45.5 front 48.6 and length of arm 64.8, balance difference between back and front 3.1 cm
With my measurements derrived from the pic (asuming the arm length is 64.  I got: back 47.8 and front 51.8.  A balance difference about 4 cm.
(+- 1 to 2 cm. This is only measured and calculated "pi x thumb"- nothing exact). But that is what the pic is telling me.
lg
posaune

Thanks posaune. I will double check it, but, again, I'm sure I added 8cm in total. I add a picture of the first shirt where no balance adjustment was made at all. The guy in the photo is more a size 48, though.

[peterle]

Comparing this pic with the ones from the thread, he has a lot more erect posture on this pic and is more relaxed in the other pics. probably he was also while measuring?

When I see the final pics in the other thread, it think, there is no more balance issue in the shirt. So I wonder where you see an issue.

[Petruchio]

Comparing this pic with the ones from the thread, he has a lot more erect posture on this pic and is more relaxed in the other pics. probably he was also while measuring?

When I see the final pics in the other thread, it think, there is no more balance issue in the shirt. So I wonder where you see an issue.

Yes, I think that his inconsistent stance was the cause for a lot of the issues. Concerning the final shirt, the problems are not the balance, but it somehow looks off when he moves. Especially in the upper chest area there some major horizontal pulling sensations from the shoulder to the front occur. I know that this is a shirt and with movement there will be creases and stuff, but it looks different than on other shirts. I therefore think that there is an issue with the way the front meets the yoke and the way the neckhole is cut and I thought that might have to do with the way I changed the balance.

[peterle]

I can see the stress fold, especially at the left shoulder bone. Also the sleeve sits a bit too tight at the top of the crown, so it seems the sleeve causes the pulling. Probably a bit more volume in the front top of the sleeve crown (where the fold points to) will care for relieve.

[Petruchio]

I can see the stress fold, especially at the left shoulder bone. Also the sleeve sits a bit too tight at the top of the crown, so it seems the sleeve causes the pulling. Probably a bit more volume in the front top of the sleeve crown (where the fold points to) will care for relieve.

Just out of curiosity I think I will start from scratch, remeasuring and doing all the balance alterations by distributing it evenly, so avoiding any change in the neckhole and the shoulder seam.

Thanks for the advice, it really looks as if the the cap of the shoulder is way too tight, I think I took away too much trying to make it look clean, ie took away at the wrong position.

[posaune]

good decision Petruchio. I attach a standard measuretable for gents (average german and who is stamdard anyway?). After measureing your customer compare the values. When the values differ a lot and you can't explain it because of his posture or otherwise then measures those values again. You will be of the sure side then.
lg
posaune

[Kiem]

The thing I seem to struggle with is that on some days (or parts of the day) I am more erect and sometimes more stooped, depending on my leven of fitness/fatigue.

On a good day I need +- 2 cm front balance, on a bad day I probably need 1 cm back balance... So far this has been most noticeable while wearing a waistcoat.

Where would you go with this info If I were a client?
Go for ideal situation? or somewhere in the middle?

[theresa in tucson]

I think you are overfitting.  It's a shirt, not a fitted tunic so don't try to take out every little wrinkle.  You are looking for a happy medium and what looks good from ten feet away. 

[peterle]

In a waistcoat the back balance should be about 1cm longer than usual, because of the non elastic back fabric and to avoid a gaping front when sitting down. So when in doubt take the version with the longer back balance for a waistcoat.
Anybody has different posture and  body tension from day to day and even in front of a mirror everybody changes his posture. Human nature, not a problem.

[Schneiderfrei]

Petrucio, this is the biggest problem with the modern expectation of shirts.

Even in the 60's the shirt was still just underwear for most people. it is primarily supposed to be comfortable. The earlier you go back the less people worried about how closely fitted the shirst was.

In the 70's two things happened, firstly, the 60's happened, anything goes. Then they invented stretch fabric. Voila, the body shirt. you could wear a closely fitted shirt, and have some comfort. Nobody seems to understand this now.

It isn't possible to expect movement from lovely, crisp poplin.

G

[Hendrick]

Then came the 8ties... And Lycra became the plutonium of fashion...