Rundschau Cutting System Clarification Please

[Adriel]

You should be using a zipper foot so you can get closer to the teeth of the zip. Even then...you shouldn't have that little flap. If you don't have a zipper foot try hand-sewing the zip in first (just quick stitches) so you can see how it should look.

A zipper foot is a common accessory with most machines, so there must be one in the accessory box. If your machine takes singer feet, you'll definitely find one in the box of an old machine.

I can sew a zip on with a normal foot. Mine is fairly narrow.

I have two or three zipper feet (came on or with machines) and do use the narrowest.

Let me see if can get the video onto the desktop, the Macintosh isn't pulling them off the card. If so, then can do one on what I am talking about.

By the way, have at least one trouser with a flap, good to know not supposed to be, appreciated.

[Henry Hall]

Well with a zipper foot you should be within a millimetre or two of the zipper teeth. It's impossible not to be.

[Adriel]

Well with a zipper foot you should be within a millimetre or two of the zipper teeth. It's impossible not to be.

Domestic or industrial? I am using a domestic and a zipper foot and requires pushing into the foot. Still waiting for the video to upload, says another hour and a half to go, otherwise add another. Or would it be better on the whole operation?...

Is there also a difference in the feed dogs? Mine will not start at the top of the tape and go over the stop, totally jambs.

If so, another reason for an industrial, though don't think a good investment at this point of my learning.

[Henry Hall]

Over the stop? You don't need to run the foot over any metal.  Just along the tape.

[Adriel]

Over the stop? You don't need to run the foot over any metal.  Just along the tape.

Thus why I was trying to get these uploaded so we could have better communication. The first is about a minute and just shows and the second is lengthy as my first demonstration video plus reaching around the tripod.

https://youtu.be/Idx4Mt37vxY

https://youtu.be/K7_omNz0oJo


In short, where does one start machine stitching the tape?


Appreciated! 

[Henry Hall]

I assume this is just for demonstration purposes and you know that the zip is stitched on the right topside with right sides of zip and topside (as opposed to wrong sides) facing each other? And that it is then turned back for top-stitching?

The top stop is not in the way, you will be stitching with the zip face-down so the foot won't touch it. There will also be enough of a tape margin to allow you easy access; even when the zip is turned-back and top-stitched (by hand or machine).

Before you get yourself into a muddle (and end up asking to get out of the muddle!) go and read the section in Cabrera about attaching a zip. It is super clear. Read it as many times as necessary. I guarantee you it will be better than muddling through with explanations and questions on here.

[Schneiderfrei]

Henry Hall, I have learned that ' muddling through'  is a foriegn concept to Americans, with the greatest respect.

[Adriel]

I assume this is just for demonstration purposes and you know that the zip is stitched on the right topside with right sides of zip and topside (as opposed to wrong sides) facing each other? And that it is then turned back for top-stitching?

First, yes, demonstration only. Second, the instructions I have no turn back and top stitch, instead the zip is flat on both facings and/or linings, which are then sewn onto the self.

The top stop is not in the way, you will be stitching with the zip face-down so the foot won't touch it. There will also be enough of a tape margin to allow you easy access; even when the zip is turned-back and top-stitched (by hand or machine).

On my zips, the stop is the same right or wrong side. I take it then do not stitch starting before the stop and instead move the topstitch step to after setting the zip to attach the zip fully?

Before you get yourself into a muddle (and end up asking to get out of the muddle!) go and read the section in Cabrera about attaching a zip. It is super clear. Read it as many times as necessary. I guarantee you it will be better than muddling through with explanations and questions on here.

As we have seen, wouldn't be the first time muddling, can be quite fun for all!  lol

On a serious note, looked for "Cabrera" and only found sport related return on a internet search... So, how about pointing me in the right direction?

[Adriel]

Henry Hall, I have learned that ' muddling through'  is a foriegn concept to Americans, with the greatest respect.

As time goes on, learned I am more European than American (and grew up more European then American). Can't even stand to drive a domestic, instead, I drive either Mercedes or Volkswagen. With those, at times can be muddling. 

Though seems less muddling through with the videos then words, saw it coming unlike previous.

[Henry Hall]

First, yes, demonstration only. Second, the instructions I have no turn back and top stitch, instead the zip is flat on both facings and/or linings, which are then sewn onto the self.

I don't know what this means. It has to be stitched on right side-to-right side and folded back on itself. You can see this by looking at any ordinary pair of trousers. Look at the Cabrera.

On my zips, the stop is the same right or wrong side. I take it then do not stitch starting before the stop and instead move the topstitch step to after setting the zip to attach the zip fully?

It does not matter. Your foot won't even be impeded by the stop because it doesn't touch it. There was also no need to wrestle the zip under the foot in the manner it was done in the video. Just leave it open and sew it on.

On a serious note, looked for "Cabrera" and only found sport related return on a internet search... So, how about pointing me in the right direction?

There is a link to the book on this forum in the section about books. Did you look or do a forum search? I shall give you the direct link to it on the archive here.
Read the section on inserting a zip and indeed the entire section on constructing a pair of trousers. Read it more than once and at least try it out. Stop making things difficult for yourself.

[Adriel]

First, yes, demonstration only. Second, the instructions I have no turn back and top stitch, instead the zip is flat on both facings and/or linings, which are then sewn onto the self.

I don't know what this means. It has to be stitched on right side-to-right side and folded back on itself. You can see this by looking at any ordinary pair of trousers. Look at the Cabrera.

Have you seen the video Peter posted from the English "Tailor"? If not, then makes sense especially if his method is unique. He does not fold back the zipper.

I went and looked at my collection and there are some where the zipper is not folded back. I never noticed the fold, can see it as double the bulk of a flat tape plus on those where not folded, can see the width of the tape at the edge of the facing. I don't know why I didn't see this before...appreciated! 

On my zips, the stop is the same right or wrong side. I take it then do not stitch starting before the stop and instead move the topstitch step to after setting the zip to attach the zip fully?

It does not matter. Your foot won't even be impeded by the stop because it doesn't touch it. There was also no need to wrestle the zip under the foot in the manner it was done in the video. Just leave it open and sew it on.

Even if left open there is a stop at the top and bottom to contend with, unless only doing the middle to hold it until top stitching? That has been the question since before the videos: Where does the first zipper stitching start and end?

On a serious note, looked for "Cabrera" and only found sport related return on a internet search... So, how about pointing me in the right direction?

There is a link to the book on this forum in the section about books. Did you look or do a forum search? I shall give you the direct link to it on the archive here.
Read the section on inserting a zip and indeed the entire section on constructing a pair of trousers. Read it more than once and at least try it out. Stop making things difficult for yourself.

I knew that name sounded familiar!

Read the text and I am not seeing where specifically states where to start and stop the zipper stitching?

Remember, I am mentally challenged, rather then trying to make difficult, need to know specifics. That is why I loose employment as no employer will give instructions or rules I can understand and so I am terminated less than a week from starting; had it happen many times and given up accepting my mental ability is not sufficient for being employed.

For example, instead of sew the zipper on, rather, start the stitching from x and go to y. Verstehen dich meine Hilfe? (If I remember my German correctly...just having fun.)

Danke! 

[Henry Hall]

Well look at it this way: the instructions anyone is going to give are no clearer or much different to the way Cabrera's book shows how to do it. The instructions are step-by-step.

The problem of the stopper etc, is a non-problem. That top stopper is about 0-6mm from the bottom of the finished waistband when complete. The loose tape above it is diverted into the waistband and sewn inside it to hide it. The sewing obviously starts at the point at the top of the zip wherever you have placed it.
Your presser foot doesn't hit the metal or need to divert away from it because you are nowhere near the metal teeth when sewing. If you were that close the tape would disappear when it is turned back!

[Adriel]

Well look at it this way: the instructions anyone is going to give are no clearer or much different to the way Cabrera's book shows how to do it. The instructions are step-by-step.

I feel almost as comfortable with the steps as brushing my teeth, however, it is the fine technique which I am in the dark. Doesn't help YouTube videos are in 240 quality... 

The problem of the stopper etc, is a non-problem. That top stopper is about 0-6mm from the bottom of the finished waistband when complete. The loose tape above it is diverted into the waistband and sewn inside it to hide it. The sewing obviously starts at the point at the top of the zip wherever you have placed it.
Your presser foot doesn't hit the metal or need to divert away from it because you are nowhere near the metal teeth when sewing. If you were that close the tape would disappear when it is turned back!

Oh! you are turned 90 degrees from where I am, no wonder your confused, sorry.

How about where is the needle first dropped? As is in, how far down the length, so the width is set via the teeth?

To make an extreme point, if one had a 30cm fly zipper and sewed the center 5cm, the waistband seam and the crotch seam could not hold all the looseness.

Could the topstitching?

[Henry Hall]

I cannot fathom what you are asking. I don't know what you mean by: 'sew the centre'. The centre of what? The sewing starts at the top and ends at the fly notch. Where else could it go?

I can only say again that you must read Cabrera or Rhinehart or any description of how to sew in a zipper. It is on page 197-199 of Cabrera and clearly shows how to trim the zip tapes; where to place the zipper and fly pieces; where to sew on both topsides.

[Adriel]

I cannot fathom what you are asking. I don't know what you mean by: 'sew the centre'. The centre of what? The sewing starts at the top and ends at the fly notch. Where else could it go?

I can only say again that you must read Cabrera or Rhinehart or any description of how to sew in a zipper. It is on page 197-199 of Cabrera and clearly shows how to trim the zip tapes; where to place the zipper and fly pieces; where to sew on both topsides.

As I said, none of the half dozen or dozen books I have access to include the instructions of where to start and stop the zipper stitching. None. All the texts say stitch, though not exactly where. No specifics. including Cabrera or Rhinehart (the latter I have a PDF copy of). I doubt any have it, most be taught sewing zippers before sewing a fly.

So just force the zipper stops over the feed dogs? That will not hurt them? How then keep the stitching even as takes a lot to pull through especially when the stop catches. Or must I have a machine which can drop the feed dogs in order to sew zippers?