Rundschau Cutting System Clarification Please

[Adriel]

Center front of the trousers is the finished fly seam from the waist to the crotch point. It is 0,75cm inwards from B1-S2 and b2-S3.

Don´t mess it up with the front center line, wich is M1-M2.

Wahoooooooooooooooooooooooooo, a reply!  Thank you for the help, appreciated! 

So what happens to the addition on the left, please? Or that is zipper laid on center front so left side covers?

[Adriel]

Using the instructions given by posaune and Peter, here is the results.





In my taste, would like more fabric covering the exterior of the zipper, can I add to the pattern front without affecting fit?

Thank y'all in advance! 

[peterle]

For getting the zipper better covered:
Thread mark the center front line of both topsides.
Fold the fly of the right topside parallely to this thread mark, but about 5-7mm away.
Now place the zipper in a way that the zipper teeth and the fold are 3mm apart. Baste. Also baste the underlap. Sew.
When sewing the other part of  the zipper to the left topside, be sure the center front lines lay on top of each other.
Thus the zipper dissapears under the overlap.

A quite detailed book about making tailored garments is " Basic tailoring " by time life. It´s easy to get and usually quite cheap. Get one.

[Adriel]

For getting the zipper better covered:
Thread mark the center front line of both topsides.
Fold the fly of the right topside parallely to this thread mark, but about 5-7mm away.
Now place the zipper in a way that the zipper teeth and the fold are 3mm apart. Baste. Also baste the underlap. Sew.
When sewing the other part of  the zipper to the left topside, be sure the center front lines lay on top of each other.
Thus the zipper dissapears under the overlap.

Okay, very similar method, only difference is the CF is sewn shut, zipper first basted on the right with it placed to the left per the instructions:
.

The concern is the tape barely reaches onto the right seam, so if move 7cm away, leaves 0,5cm of right fabric onto which to attach the zipper.

Thus the question which once again not being answered: can width be added so long as the CF stays the same?

A quite detailed book about making tailored garments is " Basic tailoring " by time life. It´s easy to get and usually quite cheap. Get one.

I can't find if uses the Rundschau Cutting System, does it?

The "problem" is the texts and your instructions do not include zipper width (here in the States could differ from on the Continent) or use the Rundschau Cutting System in telling exactly where to place on the pattern with pictures. Posaune did this and makes sense then only have 0,75cm covering the zipper. For some this be just fine, however, I am very particular and unwilling to accept a basic understanding (my personality needs a full understanding and has difficulty with it is). I have used every last scrap of muslin, hopefully my stipend arrives mid next week and can order more muslin, never thought I use this much! LOL

However, will put this on the list of texts and appreciate knowing of it, thank you. 

[theresa in tucson]

Adriel, have you considered using bed sheets for muslins?  Often you can get bed sheets still in good condition at the thrift stores or at yard sales.  Yard sales might be cheaper though.  Peter Lappin from "Male Pattern Boldness" blog has used them quite successfully.

As for the zipper, there are oodles of tutorials on putting in the fly front zipper.  Try the "Closet Case Patterns" blog.  Yes, they are women's pants but she has both the jeans fly front where the zipper is set in more and the ladies trouser where the zipper is close to centerline.  They are step by step and loaded with pictures.  As an unrepentant home sewist I use any help I can get.

Theresa in Tucson

[Adriel]

Adriel, have you considered using bed sheets for muslins?  Often you can get bed sheets still in good condition at the thrift stores or at yard sales.  Yard sales might be cheaper though.  Peter Lappin from "Male Pattern Boldness" blog has used them quite successfully.

As for the zipper, there are oodles of tutorials on putting in the fly front zipper.  Try the "Closet Case Patterns" blog.  Yes, they are women's pants but she has both the jeans fly front where the zipper is set in more and the ladies trouser where the zipper is close to centerline.  They are step by step and loaded with pictures.  As an unrepentant home sewist I use any help I can get.

Theresa in Tucson

Theresa, have a cousin and his boy in Sierra Vista, though four hour drive for me.

I am reading Peter Lappin's blog and have contacted him, however, never used a pattern with differing sides so was unable to help.

I didn't see bedsheets on his blog, though on a YouTube. My thing is money was tight and when I go to a thrift store, got to go look at the sartorial clothing (especially since my size is so rare).  Never found a suit (sadly the pants were the wrong ones) though sport coats for $5. Did get a perfect condition tick tweed suit off eBay for $10, I just needed to take in the waist (while at it removed the belt loops) and now the best fitting suit along with Opa's DB. Looks like half price Saturday was last week, March calendar not up, so probably two Saturdays away based on every other. Be fun to get out there, even if exhausting.

Putting on is not the issue, it is getting the coverage from the pattern. Closet Case looks like using their own pattern versus a drafted so still having not found a tutorial which included the drafting, can you please provide where?

In the end, rather just adjust what I have then have to draft a whole new especially if all adding mean fitting again.

[peterle]

5mm folded back is enough, because you topstitch the fold at it´s very edge when you sew the right tape. When you are insecure, just cut the inlay a bit wider, so you can tuck under a bit more.

Please inform yourself how to sew a zipper for pants. In Your pics I see a fraying edge at the left zipper tape, there should not be one. And I don´t see a topstitching line at the right zipper tape, but there should be one.

[Adriel]

What is the reason you are unable to indulge my question? Of course not critical, just trying to know what questions I am allowed to ask, please. Rather not break these hidden rules in the future and cause folks discomfort.

5mm folded back is enough, because you topstitch the fold at it´s very edge when you sew the right tape. When you are insecure, just cut the inlay a bit wider, so you can tuck under a bit more.

First, what is fold back?

Second, how does extending the right not add bulk to the CF? Mean, shouldn't the left be the only cover as per the note? Or are you saying instead match left to right?

I did not topstitch as didn't understand affect enough and why waste thread and time? However, of course did so could see what you mean and do see improvement as the zipper teeth are covered.




Though if compare to the flannels worn today, the zipper itself shows on the muslin and not the OTR.



If look at the flannels wearing today, have about twice as much zipper coverage.

Please inform yourself how to sew a zipper for pants. In Your pics I see a fraying edge at the left zipper tape, there should not be one. And I don´t see a topstitching line at the right zipper tape, but there should be one.

Please don't be disparaging, I am informed just not on matching the books, PDFs, and images to the Rundschau as I said. Glad to know the The Art of Sewing Basic Tailoring uses the Rundschau, be a huge help.


Rather, how about helping me be more informed? If you like, be willing to take apart and show you I can, especially if leads to correction.


As to the fraying, zipper tapes here in the States come in one color, matching the teeth to the pull, to the tape. The fraying instead the Übertritt as per these instructions:
.


Interesting on the Continent the tape is a different colour then the rest. Fun learning these little facts.

[peterle]

I just want you to do a good fly, that´s why I talk about the mistakes.

A good method to do a suit trouser fly is shown here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-ItX5EP08o

For modern trousers just skip the left topside extension and cut both topsides the same. It´s easier and even Rundschau doesn´t do the addition to the left topside anymore.

[Adriel]

I just want you to do a good fly, that´s why I talk about the mistakes.

I do too, why came here to inquire if had and how to fix the one I knew of, despite the risk. Glad and appreciative on the same page.

The only thing is, I am not seeing a list of mistakes, though the video does make it more clear.

A good method to do a suit trouser fly is shown here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-ItX5EP08o

I watched a few of his, kept getting distracted by practices I would not think a tailor do, including horrible wardrobe choices, never watched another after a couple few dozen. Since required material, did, and has to be one of his best. 

I have been given about six eight methods (including the book I purchased on trouser sewing by Coffin) and say this one is interesting attaching the zipper to the flies on both sides, does make more sense.

What is missing is the right side top stitching distance from the edge to create the left overlap, would assume the 0,75cm SA.

My question is, on the Rundschau, can the crotch also use a 1cm SA?

Would that then give instead of a 0,75cm left cover 1cm?

For modern trousers just skip the left topside extension and cut both topsides the same. It´s easier and even Rundschau doesn´t do the addition to the left topside anymore.

Hmmm, since when do I prefer the easier way? How does the methods differ? Does it affect the appearance of the fly?

I was going to post this yesterday, glad didn't. Going ahead and hopefully not distract.

[Adriel]

Darn, now instead of the usual of image not posting, cutting it off. LOL Here is the link: https://scontent.fhhr1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/52951208_2535700013111018_2156106456271683584_o.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ht=scontent.fhhr1-1.fna&oh=1f508d06180c0bac8d47bde737f154b0&oe=5CE7290D.

[Adriel]

Peter, got two mockups done. Man, so appreciative you gave the best method for Rundschau! 


This one regretfully used the added:






Despite being sick and still, still got this one done. Seems the tension needs to be adjusted, plus a couple other obvious mistakes. Though, shows have the basic concept down and no changes to the draft needed like thought because of the first using the book (calling for sewing CF together).






Now looking forward getting more practice and getting better and better. Also feel like interfacing adding some thickness help. That will also be fun trying different from this soft front to stiffer front. If that makes any sense...

[Schneiderfrei]

On the right side I would sew the seam much closer to the edge of the fold, and as close as possible to the zip.

On your next try I expect you will make the seams straighter and neater but that looks basically correct.

You could pan out the image some more to show the bottom end.

[Adriel]

On the right side I would sew the seam much closer to the edge of the fold, and as close as possible to the zip.

The difficulty I have is at the top there is a stop wider then the teeth my machine will not go over. Any tips please?

Could I even skip the top stitching the right side until the left was done?

On your next try I expect you will make the seams straighter and neater but that looks basically correct.

The last one kept having the thread break as tired and mind in a fog, so have to restart. Towards the end just wanted to be done and see the difference. Also, just slapped on the iron and now thinking caused some of the puckering as wasn't there until after pressing (heat all the way up and most steam).

You could pan out the image some more to show the bottom end.

How about these pictures?

[Henry Hall]

You should be using a zipper foot so you can get closer to the teeth of the zip. Even then...you shouldn't have that little flap. If you don't have a zipper foot try hand-sewing the zip in first (just quick stitches) so you can see how it should look.

A zipper foot is a common accessory with most machines, so there must be one in the accessory box. If your machine takes singer feet, you'll definitely find one in the box of an old machine.

I can sew a zip on with a normal foot. Mine is fairly narrow.