Drafting trousers.

[Adriel]

Will it take out some of the wrinkles?

I say yes, but others may not. As far as I see the drafting system you are using places strong emphasis on accuracy at the cutting stage.

Okay, thus why I wanted to explore correcting the fit so have options, either dressing the trouser or adjusting the pattern.

With my need for extreme accuracy, then seems to fit. What I do have trouble with is stretching the cotton so the front and backs line up, can see where couple places I am off. Why plan to use an inexpensive wool for the next stage and see how that goes. If good to go, then make several in the lower price range and see how do over time, especially as do wash my wool clothes at home (never had them shrink, yet...) rather then have them dry cleaned in chemicals with other peoples' pants, eew. 

[Henry Hall]

either dressing the trouser or adjusting the pattern.

You still need to do the ironwork either way.

[Adriel]

either dressing the trouser or adjusting the pattern.

You still need to do the ironwork either way.

Interesting, as was under the impression most trousers were made without dressing, especially the modern drafts.

So why eliminate wrinkling in the fitting if the dressing will remove them?

[Henry Hall]

It's not just for removing wrinkles in an inadequate draft. It's for shaping the trousers (over calf etc).

[Adriel]

It's not just for removing wrinkles in an inadequate draft. It's for shaping the trousers (over calf etc).

What is inadequate in this draft? Need to do another?

Is there less shaping needed as the legs get wider?

[Henry Hall]

No. You don't need to do another. This draft is adjusted to get the best fit, then when the actual trousers are made you dress them before (and a little after) you stitch them together.
The entire silhouette it is not achieved at the drafting,fitting stage.

[Adriel]

No. You don't need to do another. This draft is adjusted to get the best fit, then when the actual trousers are made you dress them before (and a little after) you stitch them together.
The entire silhouette it is not achieved at the drafting,fitting stage.

Ah, got it, appreciated.

[peterle]

When fitting You always have to care that the garment sits on the body where it´s meant to sit:

In Rundschau trouser patterns the waistband seam is meant to sit right above the edge of the pelvis bone. Please look at the measuring diagramm of the pattern instructions, it´s shown very clearly.

I think You´ve worn it right in the pics of post 71 and wear it too low in the latest pics. That´s why they show so much overlength now and look so much worse than in post 71.

Ironwork is no alternative to adjusting the pattern. The possibilities are limited and you have to know exactly what you do. Certainly not an option for a beginner.

[Adriel]

When fitting You always have to care that the garment sits on the body where it´s meant to sit:

If understanding, using similar rise for the tilt angle does not work?

In Rundschau trouser patterns the waistband seam is meant to sit right above the edge of the pelvis bone. Please look at the measuring diagramm of the pattern instructions, it´s shown very clearly.

Actually, the diagram shows the waistband parallel to the floor, not tilted. So then which is correct?

Need to take pictures marking the pelvis top?

I think You´ve worn it right in the pics of post 71 and wear it too low in the latest pics. That´s why they show so much overlength now and look so much worse than in post 71.

Figured pictures are not working and tailors work in person, so a video come close: https://youtu.be/KDXjmhbOE1Y?

Ironwork is no alternative to adjusting the pattern. The possibilities are limited and you have to know exactly what you do. Certainly not an option for a beginner.

I am getting the feeling you are changing opinion? I am willing to draft, cut, and sew another to nail the fit. In the time of the first draft, have lost two kilos and now taking a measure again, 0,75cm. I hope to go from 81kg to 75kg, put on way too much weight over Winter. Thought wouldn't drop this fast, otherwise would have waited (thought these be Winter trousers then adjust for Summer trousers).

By the way, if I had my way, I get back to 70 kilos, though my doctor was saying too thin for some reason.

And please understand if I didn't value and appreciate the help, would have left long ago. Must be even more frustrating for y'all. Sorry I am so eccentric.

Edit
Had the idea do a fish dart along the seam taking out 1,5cm starting at the lower line (name escapes as needs to eat and tire) and see if that helps, what thinks?





Then, pinched some out in the crotch.

[Adriel]

What Mr. Peter said got me wondering and just before retiring, came to the thought to check the needle to edge of foot distance. 6mm! Or in other words, 8mm of extra fabric. 

Only took in the rear center seam and seems to have helped?

[peterle]

If understanding, using similar rise for the tilt angle does not work?

I don´t understand what you mean.


Actually, the diagram shows the waistband parallel to the floor, not tilted. So then which is correct?
This pattern is meant to have a horizontal waistband.

Need to take pictures marking the pelvis top?

No, just be sure you took your measurments from this point and that you wear the waistseam at this point.


I am getting the feeling you are changing opinion? I am willing to draft, cut, and sew another to nail the fit.
No, you confuse Henry and me.  And no, no new muslin please. Stick with this one.


Had the idea do a fish dart along the seam taking out 1,5cm starting at the lower line (name escapes as needs to eat and tire) and see if that helps, what thinks?

No, doesn´t work.

Then, pinched some out in the crotch.

Doesn´t work either.

I´m waiting for pics with the pinned horizontal dart, but with the trousers worn right.

Side seam, inseam and center front seam have the SA added. The seat seam is drafted netto, so you have to sew it on the drafted line.

What I can say from the vid is, Your waistband is too wide. It should have the same measure as your waist and the waistseam line of the leg parts should be a tad longer than the waistband, because they have to be eased in.

[Henry Hall]

Peterle, I think Adriel's confusion is legitimate. You are telling him that all the fit is achieved through the pattern draft, but it isn't true. The perfection of the fit is completed during making-up as the trousers are worked with the iron. Of course the pattern has to be right before that begins.

You are flying over what I said to him and contradicting me. No matter how great and minutely engineered the the pattern is, without proper working-up they will look like a sack.

[peterle]

No Henry, we do have the same opinion. Ironwork is  necessary to create a nice pair of trousers, but it can´t substitute fitting the pattern.  I think the possibilities of curing an ill fitting pattern with ironwork are limited. Maybe we just differ where these limits are.

Until now we did no alteration to the muslin, and my approach is, to alter the pattern before I consider ironwork. Just my opinion, and no claim to be the one and only way. Maybe your approach is different and I would be glad to know, how you would do the fitting of Adriel´s trousers in detail.

To all the English native speakers out there: Is "to dress" the right term for doing ironwork? I´m not sure about it, because when I hear dress + trousers, I think of the pattern detail for the male anatomy.

[Adriel]

If understanding, using similar rise for the tilt angle does not work?

I don´t understand what you mean.

I will say for a third time, trying to copy something to get the correct waistband angle as nothing to go off, especially since my pelvis is tilted and figured affect the fitting.

Actually, the diagram shows the waistband parallel to the floor, not tilted. So then which is correct?
This pattern is meant to have a horizontal waistband.

So why the heck are you trying to have it at a steep angle? Myself think it looks better more horizontal. Or is the steep angle a better way to wear them?

Need to take pictures marking the pelvis top?

No, just be sure you took your measurments from this point and that you wear the waistseam at this point.

Okay.

I am getting the feeling you are changing opinion? I am willing to draft, cut, and sew another to nail the fit.
No, you confuse Henry and me.  And no, no new muslin please. Stick with this one.

Okay, will hold off on the muslin though still adjust the draft as you are seeming to suggest the rear waistband needs to be heightened plus add width to the rear legs. How much to the rear legs?

Had the idea do a fish dart along the seam taking out 1,5cm starting at the lower line (name escapes as needs to eat and tire) and see if that helps, what thinks?

No, doesn´t work.

Then, pinched some out in the crotch.

Doesn´t work either.

So wrinkles removed does not mean a better fit? Appreciate you correcting me on that, so much to learn at times overwhelming.

I´m waiting for pics with the pinned horizontal dart, but with the trousers worn right.

And I have been waiting for an exact placement of the waistband, why I put a video hoping help. The bottom of the waistband is 112cm off the floor.

Side seam, inseam and center front seam have the SA added. The seat seam is drafted netto, so you have to sew it on the drafted line.

As you said, I have trouble following instructions, here is an example. No where on the instructions was this stated. All it said was 1cm. With my mental deformity, I need absolute clarity. On one of the drafts it clearly states a larger seam in the seat.

Looks like need to cut and sew another muslin, as too many faults to be corrected. I would clearly state was a new muslin, probably look that way too as this is getting ragged with all the fittings.

What I can say from the vid is, Your waistband is too wide. It should have the same measure as your waist and the waistseam line of the leg parts should be a tad longer than the waistband, because they have to be eased in.

Okay, all the waistbands I have seen were sewn on the flat. How does one put ease into cotton or linen when doesn't stretch like wool?

This is the same issue I had getting the legs to align, putting in the ease and stretching.

[Adriel]

Peterle, I think Adriel's confusion is legitimate. You are telling him that all the fit is achieved through the pattern draft, but it isn't true. The perfection of the fit is completed during making-up as the trousers are worked with the iron. Of course the pattern has to be right before that begins.

You are flying over what I said to him and contradicting me. No matter how great and minutely engineered the the pattern is, without proper working-up they will look like a sack.

No Henry, we do have the same opinion. Ironwork is  necessary to create a nice pair of trousers, but it can´t substitute fitting the pattern.  I think the possibilities of curing an ill fitting pattern with ironwork are limited. Maybe we just differ where these limits are.

Until now we did no alteration to the muslin, and my approach is, to alter the pattern before I consider ironwork. Just my opinion, and no claim to be the one and only way. Maybe your approach is different and I would be glad to know, how you would do the fitting of Adriel´s trousers in detail.

To all the English native speakers out there: Is "to dress" the right term for doing ironwork? I´m not sure about it, because when I hear dress + trousers, I think of the pattern detail for the male anatomy.

I wanted to say sorry, it was posaune who said "And if you dress the trouser, it will go away and it will be a very good fitting one. before you sew the new one together do it! You have done excellent. I might have also done that on the rear leg width, sorry if did.

As y'all said, this pattern is way off. Now thinking again, after get back from an errand will cut a new muslin with the corrected seam allowances, no inlays in the crotch seams, and inlay in the side seams. Since I am not keen on Peter's suggestion for even steeper waistband angle, will leave that alone. I know still not going to be 100 percent because lost weight, just not willing to draft another when hoping to drop a few more kilos. Then we can go through this fun process all over again.