Drafting trousers.

[Adriel]

what do you mean with: "they have less ease after the darts were taken"?

Regarding your statement:

As Posaune wrote, take this additional 1cm out with a wider back dart.

Doing so has gone from this:



to this:
.

[Henry Hall]

I'm now really baffled! Why are there now two enormously long darts in the fronts? Why is the entire circumference from under the waistband to about the seat-line exactly the same as before?

You simply must have ease over that area or the trousers will not fit properly in wear. They will be terrible when sitting; the pockets (as Peterle mentioned) will stick out like dog's ears; they will ride up around the seat-hips.

I can see there's some loose material under the seat and at the top of the thigh, but above it there's nothing!

If you add some and then take it away in a dart it's like none was added in the first place! The fronts are not broad enough at the seat, that is basically it. So whatever wizardry is done between S-S2 and all these shenanigans, you basically just have to add more actual girth measurement to that area.

The end.

[Adriel]

I'm now really baffled! Why are there now two enormously long darts in the fronts? Why is the entire circumference from under the waistband to about the seat-line exactly the same as before?

How much of the thread have you slogged though so I know how to summarize? I so need to work on saying even less...

First, they are not darts:

You see you should add to the front.
I give you a pic about enlarging the front 1 cm. You cut at center. You slide each panel o.5 cm to the right and left. You enlarge the front crotch diameter so that you will have 0.5 cm more. Now connect back to the knees. You have to enlarge your waist dart. But seeing your side view I would enlarge the back dart this amount, so the seam would run more straight. This a  very modest alteration - you add 2 cm more in front.

[...]



[...]

You simply must have ease over that area or the trousers will not fit properly in wear. They will be terrible when sitting; the pockets (as Peterle mentioned) will stick out like dog's ears; they will ride up around the seat-hips.

Second, not sure what this diagonal circumference is. As to things being the same, only the waist stayed the same as fine, needed more dress room, as seen in this picture.

I can see there's some loose material under the seat and at the top of the thigh, but above it there's nothing!

Because of the fishform dart which was told to put in. As I understand, if the fabric was skin tight as seems some want, one could not sit down without seams ripping. Or, are you saying should be loose fabric the whole way up?

If you add some and then take it away in a dart it's like none was added in the first place! The fronts are not broad enough at the seat, that is basically it. So whatever wizardry is done between S-S2 and all these shenanigans, you basically just have to add more actual girth measurement to that area.

I am not following. Darts remove fabric and splits add fabric. When fabric is added one place sometimes needs to be removed in another. Since 1cm was added to the front was instructed to also remove 1cm from the back.

The end.

The end of what? I am honestly puzzled how this relates. 

Hopefully gone from clear as mud to clear as used engine oel. 

[Henry Hall]

Okay. I had missed the additions. I didn't enlarge the photos and thought they were darts. Sorry, my mistake. It still baffles me though because I can't remember how you got from having excess cloth to needing to add pieces to enlarge. Even then, with these additions  it's still tight around the seat and fronts.

They are too tight around the hips. They need more ease at the hips. Why don't they have more ease? You must see that those brown trousers you had as model have more ease in the hips than these. This is why I am perplexed.

[Adriel]

Okay. I had missed the additions. I didn't enlarge the photos and thought they were darts. Sorry, my mistake. It still baffles me though because I can't remember how you got from having excess cloth to needing to add pieces to enlarge. Even then, with these additions  it's still tight around the seat and fronts.

They are too tight around the hips. They need more ease at the hips. Why don't they have more ease? You must see that those brown trousers you had as model have more ease in the hips than these. This is why I am perplexed.

And thus why I showed before taking in the darts an additional 1cm. If that is a better fit, then can take out. If y'all think some needs to come out, then can go to pinning. At least the fitting is done, now down to just the darts, or in other words, the style. Right?

The other thing is was told to ease in the waistband, though how much not clarified, so set in so actual waist measurement minus 2cm. So that is the only other place I can think of that could go wrong.

[Henry Hall]

I'm calm again. Carry on as normal sir. We shall see what we see!

[Adriel]

I'm calm again. Carry on as normal sir. We shall see what we see!

LOL I thought you were calm all this time. Stay calm and tailor. 

You provided wonderful help in now there is more clarity so hopefully those more familiar with the draft can help. 

By the way, I realized I was hyper focusing and obsessing, not getting my Vater's coat done and warm weather soon be here. Going to be much easier as not going to do any fitting since a work coat with raglan sleeves. Still doing a muslin of course and making both long so can be used later if needed.

[peterle]

I think you didn´t do the alteration right. Just making slits doesn´t change anything. And why are the slits wider at the top?

Please do the alteration the way I wrote in Post#123.

[Adriel]

I think you didn´t do the alteration right. Just making slits doesn´t change anything. And why are the slits wider at the top?

Why are you getting mean, what did I do to deserve it?

What is wrong with posaune's method? As you can see before taking in the darts, plenty of ease. Or did the pictures not load again or too dark?

So are you saying darts have no impact on fit?

Please do the alteration the way I wrote in Post#123.

I live on a very limited income and at this point in the month, not able to purchase more muslin. Therefore, I am not able to sew up yet another muslin because of this disagreements between you and posaune. I would much prefer a general consensus between you both so when I do a method or fitting, not having to do yet another fitting or worse another muslin. I do understand each has their own method, though this jerking around is very difficult for this Autistic.

Maybe I should move this over to another section of Bespoke Tailor and Cutter so can get the help on the darts as seeming now to the advanced level?

[peterle]

What I wrote in post 123 is Posaunes alteration. It does exactly what her scetch shows. We don´t disagree. Trust me.

The aim of the alteration is to make the fronts wider at the crotch line(S-S2) and above. The slits and insertions you did, make the trousers just a bit wider at the waistline but not at the crotch line. They are as tight as before.

I think you have inlays at the side seam, use these for the alteration. Don´t cut a new muslin, change the old.

[Adriel]

What I wrote in post 123 is Posaunes alteration. It does exactly what her scetch shows. We don´t disagree. Trust me.

I am just going by what you said. So then why another muslin if the results are the same?

The aim of the alteration is to make the fronts wider at the crotch line(S-S2) and above. The slits and insertions you did, make the trousers just a bit wider at the waistline but not at the crotch line. They are as tight as before.

So spit further down? That does differ as Posaune has it about mid point according to the diagram.

I think you have inlays at the side seam, use these for the alteration. Don´t cut a new muslin, change the old.

Now you want side seam? This is what gets frustrating, as an Autistic I need consistency please.

How can I cut an inlay and spread an inlay? If I can, then yes, no new muslin needed. However, if can't, then a new one has to.

[peterle]

You misinterpret Posaune´s diagram. Look at the new lines in red and compare it to the black old lines. You will see, that the pattern gets 1,5cm wider where the crotch line crosses the sideseam and the inseam.
Your alteration doesn´t make anything wider at the crotch line. Your alteration is wrong.

That´s why I wrote post 123. It is the only way to carry out Posaune´s diagramm.

[Adriel]

You misinterpret Posaune´s diagram. Look at the new lines in red and compare it to the black old lines. You will see, that the pattern gets 1,5cm wider where the crotch line crosses the sideseam and the inseam.
Your alteration doesn´t make anything wider at the crotch line. Your alteration is wrong.

That´s why I wrote post 123. It is the only way to carry out Posaune´s diagramm.

I am sorry, with my Autism I need clarity. The sudden switch from site spit to crotch was not noticed.

The alteration isn't wrong, please refrain from being nasty. If you look at the diagram regarding the spit and not the crotch, did exactly as drawn.

However, I did attempt Posaune's crotch adjustment to a degree, no answer back on going to the knees. Since lacking instructions on how to adjust a muslin and unable to create a new one, let out from four points on up to the line. Now instead of all that pulling as before, sits flat. I don't want to argue over this as you seem to desire, rather to solve this great mystery of how to sew the front crotch to be sure I am doing it correctly. Yes, there is videos, though none address a bespoke draft and specifically this system.

Once the fit is close on this and with the correction to the crotch seam manner, then will adjust the draft and sew a wool trial to this new fit and have it checked.

And to seat seams spitting, I present this: 


Hopefully that will lighten things up and get moving onto fixing the crotch. 

[posaune]

Sorry, I 'll leave this thread now. Peterle and I are real d'accord, Adriel. Because my english is not so good  - he kindly writes the explaination.
I do not know why there is so much interpretation needed  to see in the pic what is going on.  You front hip is to small. Enlarge it. But not your waist.
I wish you much success with your work.
posaune

[Henry Hall]

Adriel, my dear fellow, you only need to widen the fronts at the crotch-line. This is an easy operation and the instructions for doing it were pretty thorough.

There should have been enough inlay cut onto the original muslin to allow for all these fitting issues. If there isn't just sew pieces on and be done with it, it's only a model for the pattern.