Charlie Watts - great Tailoring comments

[jruley]

In Sweden if you turned 6 years old they would say we don't know you. 6 is too old to start learning. And no machines. The world is ever changing.

C'mon, Greger - what year was that?

You might find this interesting:

https://www.keikari.com/english/interview-with-frederik-andersen-from-a-w-bauer/

Turns out A W Bauer is in Sweden, and goes back a long time.

And Frederik DID learn to sew at age 6 - but ironically enough, it was on his mother's machine.

[Hendrick]

In Sweden if you turned 6 years old they would say we don't know you. 6 is too old to start learning. And no machines. The world is ever changing.

C'mon, Greger - what year was that?

You might find this interesting:

https://www.keikari.com/english/interview-with-frederik-andersen-from-a-w-bauer/

Turns out A W Bauer is in Sweden, and goes back a long time.

And Frederik DID learn to sew at age 6 - but ironically enough, it was on his mother's machine.

I learned sewing at age 7... Linings on a Pfaff 134 or 136; it was on a saturday afternoon, mornings I was at school back then... Few weeks later learned to "pull in" sleevecrowns and "knot them off" by hand. Waddings and felts were too small for the cutting table and all handcut by avid ladies those days...

Cheers, Hendrick

[Greger]

1920s is when various groups of tailors started using sewing machines. Grandfather had become a farmer in Canada by then, because he thought he could earn more money.
The group in Sweden, not even sure it is around anymore.
Hostek was really angry and hurt because the American group became mtm. They could have added mtm as another branch. One of the organization leader 10-20 years ago has mtm business and mocked the history of fine tailoring and shirt making.
The guy who owns Bauer now is not old school. No doubt he learned some. I think the old guys were rejecting him because of his age. Too old. He is lucky that they changed their mind. They mentioned the trade was dieing, what year is this? 1970s? 1980? Why weren't there some younger apprentices? In the US there are real tailors who closed up shop because the lack of customers. Some tailors went to mtm and alterations. The boy I went to school with, when he was 11, late 1960s, an old semi retired tailor, a tiny little house, so the pattern would be drawn out bit by bit on the cloth, he certainly made a large variety of clothes. Another young man had a special coat made from an old tailor. It might have been the same tailor. But I think the other had died by then. That was an interesting story. It was probably the same tailor his parents went to. The boys back then didn't want their parents to know what their little group was about. So this tailor asked him many tricky questions trying to get the teen to "spill the beans". Every detail of the coat has to be cut a certain way to represent this teen group meaning. I had read the Hobbit books. The questioning and answers were like when the hobbit was taking the ring back and that little creature with all his trick questions to get hold of the ring. The teen never got what he wanted. The tailor made him an interesting coat. The tailor told him about what other teens had him make. Each generation has its own unique details. Armholes are cut different. Waist, chest, collars, etc. Tailors who only produce like Mass-produced kinda bore me. They can be very good tailors. Some have lots of that work and it pays good money. I understand that. I'm also a painter. What painter paints the same painting over and over? I like small town tailors because they have to be open minded to stay in business. Theater and ballet and movie tailors make a huge variety of clothes. The imagination never ends.
I think England had a cut off age of 19 for awhile. Read that perhaps more than once. Other countries had different ages depending where you lived. Now most will take any age.
One of my cousins in Europe moved out of his parents house as soon as he could because he disliked the demanding picky customers. He might be doing this trade again, but he is probably retired.
Anyway, it is an interesting world of art.

[stoo23]

Just a 'follow up' image.
Charlie and Shirley in front of blossoming spring wisteria in 2020 with their rescue dog Suzie.
Apparently the Last Photo with his partner of 59 years before his passing.

You cannot view this attachment.

[jruley]

1920s is when various groups of tailors started using sewing machines.

For those interested in the history of the sewing machine, here is the
International Sewing Machine Collectors' Society website:

https://ismacs.net/index.html

A French tailor named Thimmonier actually had a production line making army uniforms set up in the 1830's, using primitive wooden-framed machines.  To be fair the operation didn't last long.  The local hand tailors rioted, and wooden machines burn very well.

Practical lockstitch machines became available through the decade of the 1850's.  Larger, heavier built models intended for industrial use came out in parallel with the home models.  Singer in particular built larger machines, since their basic design used gears and cross shafts  which could easily be lengthened.

Original Civil War uniforms (1861-65) are on display in many national parks and battlefield museums.  Look closely and you'll find machine topstitching.  Obviously the clothing contractors had machines.  Men's civilian clothing of the era is scarcer, but you can also find machine stitching; I've personally seen machine quilted chest padding in several frock and dress coats.

I think it's probably true that visible stitching of any kind was looked down on as a sign of cheaper quality work, but that doesn't mean machines didn't have their place.

[jruley]

Tailors who only produce like Mass-produced kinda bore me. They can be very good tailors. Some have lots of that work and it pays good money. I understand that. I'm also a painter. What painter paints the same painting over and over? I like small town tailors because they have to be open minded to stay in business. Theater and ballet and movie tailors make a huge variety of clothes. The imagination never ends.

If you are purely an artist, then you can paint whatever you wish.  If you are an artist in business, then you have to paint things other people want to buy, or you will starve.  Same thing with a tailor.  If your customers value conformity over self-expression you may very well make the same thing over and over.  Face it - you're making uniforms, although the rules may not be as explicit as military regulations.  Your work is distinguished by its precision, not its originality.

I agree that theater, ballet and movie work is probably a better fit for an artistic mind than cranking out endless quantities of the "house style".

[Hendrick]

Tailors who only produce like Mass-produced kinda bore me. They can be very good tailors. Some have lots of that work and it pays good money. I understand that. I'm also a painter. What painter paints the same painting over and over? I like small town tailors because they have to be open minded to stay in business. Theater and ballet and movie tailors make a huge variety of clothes. The imagination never ends.

If you are purely an artist, then you can paint whatever you wish.  If you are an artist in business, then you have to paint things other people want to buy, or you will starve.  Same thing with a tailor.  If your customers value conformity over self-expression you may very well make the same thing over and over.  Face it - you're making uniforms, although the rules may not be as explicit as military regulations.  Your work is distinguished by its precision, not its originality.

I agree that theater, ballet and movie work is probably a better fit for an artistic mind than cranking out endless quantities of the "house style".

Note that every decent level ready to wear co. in the mens' business has a least a "tailor in the house", Schnittmacher in German... These guys are extremely good at developing cuts within the right "Zeitgeist". Now I was thinking of an aunt of mine, a painter who was commisoned for literally hundreds of portraits. They were all portraits sure, but always representing different characters' facial features and expression. I suppose clothing can give the wearer authority but also the opposite... I think that in costume design there is far more room for expression but also there, authority of the character is at play at stage. No matter if it's comedy, tragedy or satire...

 

Cheers, Hendrick