Men's Trouser Fit Check

[jruley]

As for walking I would have bought one would increase the stride to stop the roping that occurs when this is out of balance.

Please see the illustration in #67.  When the seat angle is increased, the stride (diagonal distance from B4 to S6) gets longer.  So the alteration I made did increase the stride.

When sitting you would need to widen the seat slightly, I have learned that 1" over the seat measure is ample for the spread of said area when squatting or sitting.

Well, strictly speaking I didn't make an alteration for sitting; I should have said walking or stair climbing.  I'm sure you are right about widening the seat, and I've also read that more shaping at the knees is required for a really good fit with them bent.

What ironwork did you do on the underside, specifically at the inseam/fork area?

The only ironwork was to stretch the back fork area.  This stretching was "locked in" by serging the raw edges before sewing the crotch seam.  The back inseam was stretched onto the fronts above the knee 1/4".  Or more properly stated, the fronts were fulled onto the backs above the knee, since I didn't actually stretch the backs with the iron.

[posaune]

I agree with Tom. I see at both trousers the top of the waistband at CB is not showing where at side and front it shows about 1.5 cm plus above the belt. So the CB- seam is not long enough - back crotch could be a bit more scooped out.
it looks to me too if the crease is swinging in front to the outside and at back at the inside. The left leg hem looks a bit shorter in both trousers.
But nevertheless the trousers are looking fine and I'm nick picking.
lg
posaune

[jruley]

I agree with Tom. I see at both trousers the top of the waistband at CB is not showing where at side and front it shows about 1.5 cm plus above the belt. So the CB- seam is not long enough...

But I thought Tom said the CB seam was too long?

...Have your wife pin from the top side seam (zero) to centre back creating a small wedge of about ⅜ - 5/8"...

[Thom Bennett]

The CB isn't to long, the whole back balance is to long.  These are different things.

[Schneiderfrei]

Hi Tom,

when you say the back balance is too long, do you mean that the angle is too acute, away from the vertical?

I am sorry for this question, I have always found the discussion of the state of the balance in trousers difficult to follow because of the terms.

[peterle]

For me it seems that the amount lacking at center back waistband (about 1,5-2cm) is superfluous at the crotch level. That´s why I would scoop out the seat seam for this amount. Thus the back seam area can move upwards when worn.
Just turn the trousers inside out, and put one leg into the other. So you have a nice overview of the seat seam line to reshape it. Just sew it without cutting to proof the theory.

[posaune]

Schneiderfrei, you construct the back patter over the front pattern. You see in the pic the back pattern is about 6 cm higher than the CF point. This is the average balance for a causual trouser. When worn back waist  to floor and front waist to floor are level (So you have to measure them!).  It has nothing to do with the crotch width or depth which results in the length of the crotch seam). I knew constructions which uses the balance as construction point.
A flatter seat has less, a protruding derriere more.
lg
posaune

[Thom Bennett]

Hi Graham, thanks for the question.  The back is out of balance with the front, this can be effected by either or CB being to long/short, seat angle wrong. As Jim wants a lot of room when walking or climbing stairs he has over crookened the seat angle to allow more length when the legs are bent.  With a flat seat the normal course of action would be to straighten and lower CB proportionately whilst scooping out the seat, these changes can get quite severe for those, like Jim and I who have a negative seat. With Jim's trousers they are falling off him at the rear due to excess balance, so the correct alteration (I think I'm right) would be to pass the back up effectively lowering the undersides' hip balance point down.  The seat will need to be scooped out to avoid cutting Jim in half, the extra is pinned away at the waistband and passed out at the top.  In the draft this would be lowering CB by the amount pinned away, mine is about ¾" lower than proportional.  I think the stride issue is a separate matter and has to be a compromise by not straightening the seat to much while slightly increasing the stride to lessen the pulling at the in-seam when walking, climbing stairs etc.

Well that is how I understand it, and how I would put it into practice though being new to this I am ready to be steered in the right way.

Tom

[jruley]

Thanks peterle and Tom for your comments.

With Jim's trousers they are falling off him at the rear due to excess balance, so the correct alteration (I think I'm right) would be to pass the back up effectively lowering the undersides' hip balance point down.  The seat will need to be scooped out to avoid cutting Jim in half, the extra is pinned away at the waistband and passed out at the top.  In the draft this would be lowering CB by the amount pinned away, mine is about ¾" lower than proportional. 

This confuses me.  "Passing the back up" sounds like moving the WHOLE back relative to the front, but in #102 you talk about lowering the CB and graduating back to nothing at the sides.  So which is really needed - taking a strip of material off the whole back waist, or a wedge?  In either case the crotch will need to be scooped out to recover the length lost by the alteration.

For me it seems that the amount lacking at center back waistband (about 1,5-2cm) is superfluous at the crotch level. That´s why I would scoop out the seat seam for this amount. Thus the back seam area can move upwards when worn.
Just turn the trousers inside out, and put one leg into the other. So you have a nice overview of the seat seam line to reshape it. Just sew it without cutting to proof the theory.

So, you are saying the back is already too short, and we just need to add some length at CB by scooping out the crotch?

[peterle]

So, you are saying the back is already too short, and we just need to add some length at CB by scooping out the crotch?
[/quote]

Not really. I would not say the back is too short, I would call the seat seam not scooped out enough. That´s why the seat seam pulls the center back downwards, the center back disappears under the belt and some fabric accumulates in the curve area of the seat seam  . The center back point is high enough by itself but restricted by the seat seam and does not reach it´s proper position.

It´s even possible the center back point is too high by itself like Tom says. The undersides cling to the heels at the hem. (Schneiderfrei do you remember the bell picture for shirt balance?)

But maybe just scooping out the seam will lift the back point enough. We will see. Step by step.

[jruley]

Not really. I would not say the back is too short, I would call the seat seam not scooped out enough. That´s why the seat seam pulls the center back downwards, the center back disappears under the belt and some fabric accumulates in the curve area of the seat seam  . The center back point is high enough by itself but restricted by the seat seam and does not reach it´s proper position.

It´s even possible the center back point is too high by itself like Tom says. The undersides cling to the heels at the hem. (Schneiderfrei do you remember the bell picture for shirt balance?)

But maybe just scooping out the seam will lift the back point enough. We will see. Step by step.

OK.  Just to be sure I understand, here is the back pattern I used.  The dark green line with punch marks is the seat seam:



This seam is basically two intersecting straight lines (seat angle line and fork line) joined by a radius.

To scoop out more, do I just use a smaller radius?

Or do I need to change the angle of the fork line (rotate it clockwise) to make the crotch deeper?

Or is it something else?

[peterle]

I would love to see a pic of the finished trousers like I discribed in #110. Or the paper patterns joined at the inseam. The run of the hole seam is easier to judge.

Basically you want more free room for the trunk under the butt. So the hole curve portion should move lower for about 1,5cm. Then reconnect the curve with the lines/endpoint of the lines. The"radius" could be a bit bigger as well, the straight line towards the crotch is a bit too straight in my eyes. Compare it to the used pattern instructions.

[Thom Bennett]

The latter Jim, make the crotch a bit deeper.  This will allow the trousers seat to move upwards thus raising the backs but, IMHO you will have excess at the waist which will need to be pinned.  From here, the fork/stride part of the seam looks as if it is a little bit to angled for my liking. Just as an aside, inlay isn't generally marked on the pattern but added to the cloth after chalking out; it would make it easier to cut out the seat seam.

[Schneiderfrei]

Thanks for your reply Tom, got to it late, due to stinking hot weather and a very busy day.  I love as much discussion of these concepts as I can get.

G

[jruley]

Just as an aside, inlay isn't generally marked on the pattern but added to the cloth after chalking out; it would make it easier to cut out the seat seam.

I find that if I don't mark the seat inlay, I will forget to add it in cutting .