Men's Trouser Fit Check

[jruley]

Have you, at some point added to the stride part of the fork?  If you look at peterle's post the image shows a reduction in this area, maybe whittle off a bit as shown to see if that will clean them up. 

If you look carefully at the first photo posted in #162, I did shorten the back fork width by about 1/2".  The lower RH part of the photo is the fork area.

And before you ask:  Yes, this alteration was only made to the back; the front fork was left unchanged.

[Thom Bennett]

Okay, wasn't sure quite what lines were what so thanks for clearing that up, I hoped you hadn't done the front.  Did you drop the tip any, how straight is the in-seam?

[jruley]

Did you drop the tip any, how straight is the in-seam?

Did not drop the tip, since the illustration peterle posted implied it should remain on the same horizontal line.

The inseam is now straighter, and therefore shorter, than it used to be.  Hard to say how much since I marked this on the cloth and not the pattern.

[jruley]

For clarity's sake I drew up the latest alteration on a copy of the pattern:



The solid red lines show the change I made in #162.

The dashed red line shows reducing the height at CB, which I tried to approximate with the pinned wedge in #163.

[Greger]

One of the purposes of the dart is to throw roundness over the seat if it is centered. If it is off towards the sideseam it adds more curvature to the sideseam. If the width is to wide when centered you will have extra length down the back legs, and even more dart width, rubbing on the calfs.

Perhaps instead of changing the fork up or down more length is best added to the top sideseams  (the diagonal drag).

[peterle]

First, yesd, the Trough measure is the Spaltdurchmesser. The term was used by an english speaking member of C&T forum. AS a body measuremant  it is the trunk diameter measured from CF to CB at hip heigth with a callipher.

The fork alteration did quite a good job. the J formed crease is now a straight line crease from the hip towards the inside knee. So we sorted out the width problem and reduced it to a diagonal drag problem.
(BTW I think you could take out even a bit more at the back fork. There is plenty of width in this area).

Don´t  reduce the CB height for the moment. It pulls down the waist seam too much.

The diagonal folds tell us : the pattern is too short in the direction of the folds (inseam/knee to outseam hip), compared to opposite diagonal (from outseam/calfes to CB hip). In other words the pattern is too short at the sideseams relatively to the center of the trousers.

Now we have to sort out wether this is true for the top and underside or only for the undersides:
A closer look at the fronts tells us it is true also for the fronts. There is a slight diagonal pull from fly end to sideseam/waist wich indicates lacking length of the sides seams. There is also a  slight diagonal fold in the top sides from sideseam/knee to creaseline/shin. Both tell us, the trousers are pulled up at the side seam due to lacking length.

(till now we have tried to get rid of the imbalance by lifting the center of the undersides alone by scooping out and lifting the CB with darting).

An alternative approach to correct the imbalance of "center Length" and "outside length" is to make the sideseam longer as Greger said. Due to lack of inlays this of course can´t be done in the finished trousers, but in the new one. But you can proof the theory by ripping the waistseam of the finished trousers, let´s say 6-7inches on each side of the side seam and see wether and how much the waistseam gapes when wearing.

[jruley]

An alternative approach to correct the imbalance of "center Length" and "outside length" is to make the sideseam longer as Greger said. Due to lack of inlays this of course can´t be done in the finished trousers, but in the new one. But you can proof the theory by ripping the waistseam of the finished trousers, let´s say 6-7inches on each side of the side seam and see wether and how much the waistseam gapes when wearing.

Thank you for your usual thorough review.  I don't want to try more changes on the finished trousers since this is rather delicate fabric.

I would like to proceed in two directions:

1) The best simple alteration to make the finished trousers look better.  I think it's the fork alteration in #162; I can accept the diagonal drags in the back for casual wear.  But if you have a different opinion I'd like to know.

2) The best pattern changes (other than simply leaving inlays and basting the darts as Greger said) for cutting the next pair.

Again, thanks everyone for your help!

[Thom Bennett]

Sorry Jim, I was looking at the folds back to front. I knew it was out of balance between the out-seam and centre of the pattern. Very useful information there from perterle.

[Greger]

Jim, have you looked at the MTOC? Believe in the trousers fitting chapter #4 might be useful.
In this book it says that if you take away from one part the same amount needs to be added to another place, unless you are making something smaller. Gouging out part of the seat means adding to the sideseam.

[jruley]

I found some more of the same corduroy, so now we have a new pair to play with!

These are basted together (including darts - thanks Greger) with a dummy waistband.  I left an extra inch of inlay at the top.

These are the same configuration as #162, including the seat adjustment shown in #168









So, where should I go from here?

[peterle]

The CB is pulled down as the small diagonal creases running from waistband to the seat seam indicate. Scoop out the back seam or better lower the whole back seam(like you would lower a scye)  a bit and adapt the fly seam run (keep the CB point as it is). When you have enough inlay at the waist seam, you alternatively can draw the front waist seam about 1,5-2cm higher and taper it to 0 at centet back. should have the same effect.

[hutch--]

Looking at your latest photo, there is something wrong with the section at the back of the legs as you have this collection of folds and slightly crumpled section. My guess without knowing the details of your pattern that the angle that the legs exit from the main torso is too straight which makes the front look tidy but crumples at the back. I have marked the photo with the problem area.

[posaune]

Look how the CB dips. It is the same as with all of your pants, your crotch length is too short in back. The whole back pants can not move up - the length for this is there in the legs ( giving folds at back legs) - only not in the crotch seam. You have to scoop out, so that there is no resistance from fabric. And maybe a straighter seat angle
lg
posaune
In such cases I fit the half pattern, I can see  more clearly at what place the crotch curve must be altered. Or pin them up into the right place at CB waist and feel where it gives pressure.

[jruley]

Thanks everyone for your comments!

Before doing anything else, I decided just to trim away extra seat inlays and press the seat seam.  This took a lot of pressure out of the area:

[jruley]

Here is a detail of the seat seam copied from the pattern.  The CF line is the black line on the left.  The new seat seam is the red line (with punched holes) on the right.



As you can see there is kind of a flat spot at the bottom of the crotch curve.  I doubt my body is shaped like this .

Would it be a good idea to scoop out more here, like the red dashed line?