A Torso Line shirt

[jruley]

I have responded to Henry's latest post here:

http://movsd.com/BespokeCutter/index.php?topic=238.255

Once again, I would appreciate it if posters would separate discussion of the sloper per se from discussion of the torso line shirt pattern.

[Greger]

Something about the "princess seam" in front it can allow for waist expansion.

The lengths in front, back and sides vary for need and style. If you take two tea cups and tip them 90 degrees and put imaginary heads on top where one head has an belly beneath it and the other behind it a rounded back. Clearly the lengths in front and back of each is different. Draw your waistlines. If the person has a large chest instead of belly the bulk of the front measure is above the waistline. Systems for making patterns don't always include needed changes, and really can't. It is the cutters job to decide. He will most likely put waistlines of front and back on the same horizontal line when drawing. A cutter who thinks more spacial might not, for his measurements are in his head (sees distances and draws them. As far as styles go, America has seen many of them, for they have played with their clothes, waistlines go up and down and in and out and even  diagonal. Even horse riding the under arm dart sets higher. From my perspective how the waist is shaped is only for that garment. And what looks good on paper doesn't always look good on the person. For some spacial thinkers the construction lines don't have that much meaning. Rock of Eye is a good thing.

[jruley]

And now for a totally practical question:  How much ease should be added to the collar band?

The pattern book says to add the lengths of the front and back neckhole, but this is no help, since the result is less than my neck circumference.

I am aware that the finished band length also depends on the width of the overlap or placket at front.  What I am looking for is the distance from button to buttonhole.  My neck circumference is 15-1/2, so should I use 16?  16-1/2?  or something different?

[peterle]

How does it come that your neckline is shorter than your neck circumference? That´s not ok. How much shorter is it? Did you measure the whole neck line on the patter or just one half?
On the pics it seems the curve of the front neckhole could be a bit curvier, especially the right side.

The collar band has to fit the neck line in length.
I like my collar band sewing line from button to button hole about 2cm longer than the neck circumference (wich is tight), but it depends on the material and interfacing. ( the thicker the material, the longer the collar).

In the toile you can split the collar band in the center back with a little bit of inlay. this allows you to lenghten or shorten the band when needed

[posaune]

You have mismeasured your neck circ (or on the wrong place) or the neck circ of your sloper is too small.
The width of the collar stand pattern is front neck hole + back neckhole + overlapp.
You can ease in a neckhole a little bit but not a collar stand!
lg
posaune

oh Good morning, Peterle. post were crossing

[jruley]

You have mismeasured your neck circ (or on the wrong place) or the neck circ of your sloper is too small.

Exactly, the neck circumference of the sloper is too small.  The seam line will have to be about 3/4" from the raw edge to be long enough for the band.  No wonder it had to be clipped during the fittings!

[peterle]

Just to try: before you alter the neck hole, please post some pics wearing the toile but add about 1-2 cm total in the center front from neckhole to hem.
Maybe we can add a bit of width in the neckhole and over the chest in one step.

[jruley]

Just to try: before you alter the neck hole, please post some pics wearing the toile but add about 1-2 cm total in the center front from neckhole to hem.
Maybe we can add a bit of width in the neckhole and over the chest in one step.

Do you mean to add length, or width?  If length, where?  Do you think the toile is still out of balance?

I drafted the pattern pieces for all the separate panels before seeing this post, so do not really want to change this unless absolutely necessary.

[Henry Hall]

Width. Imagine adding 1/2 a placket's worth to either side on the fronts.

[posaune]

Take your sloper, undersew a length of fabric in CF and, pin it close bord a bord and, do a pic.
lg
posaune
If you do no buttons and placket you are more versatile in altering.  Just leave an 4 cm overlapp (which you can stabilize) mark the center front and pin the thing together.

[peterle]

Yes, I wanted you to add width. The toile was always a bit tight at the front chest, wearing a t-shirt underneath makes it too tight.
My proposal was a very quick alteration, just by pining the toile close, cf lines about 1-2cm apart.

Good morning Posaue, you´ve been faster today...

[jruley]

If you do no buttons and placket you are more versatile in altering.  Just leave an 4 cm overlapp (which you can stabilize) mark the center front and pin the thing together.

That works fine if you always have a helper, but it's difficult to pin a garment together accurately while wearing it .

I sewed a second set of buttonholes 3/8" from the centerline on the left side.  If needed I can gain another 3/8" on the right by moving the buttons.  Here is the result:

[Greger]

The front dart get rid of it. If anything you can add cloth there. To do that cut the princess seam and add an inch inlay to both cuts so you can let out for the belly. A belly pocket. You don't really need a belly pocket, just threw that in for humor. There are some guys....

[peterle]

how much difference is between your old neck line length and your neck measure? the toile looks more relaxed at the neck now.

I think you can widen the fronts a bit more.
There are strange things going on on both armholes. I hope this is due to a big and sticky black t-shirt with wide sleeves?

I would like to see a pic of the shirt without the front darts but taken in a bit more in the sides seams at the natural waist. I think it would profit from a more shaped silhouette. you can keep the panel seams in the front, but don´t remove fabric there. In opposit to a widespread belief, the front dart in men´s garments is not there to remove superfluous fabric at the waist, but to create room for the chest. As you can see in the profile pics, this is not necessary for your body, because your belly protrudes your chest.

[posaune]

In my opinion, you can't have a tight fitting garment and wear a T-shirt under it. A tight fit garment has a high cut armhole - a T-Shirt not! And this varies from brand to brand.
Ladies must wear the same bra and underwear during measureing and all the fittings, otherwise you are fitting till end's day.
lg
posaune