A Torso Line shirt

[Henry Hall]

If you look just under the collar pattern he posted, peterle said this:

When you cut a new one, add a seam at the center back, so we are able to make some alterations in length when needed.

You're right, I missed that!

[jruley]

Here it is with a new collar band cut peterle's way, and half an inch more length.

Any more changes or are we ready to proceed with sleeves?

[peterle]

How does the new collar feel? It looks more relaxed than the other.

But maybe it is a bit tight. Don´t forget a finished collar is thicker, because it consists of two pieces of dress fabric and some interfacing. These sum up to the inside of the collar, and make it even tighter. (the inner parts wrinkle, the outer fabric won´t stretch).
You have to take that into account.

Your collar buttonhole is not placed right. The button should be in a line with the other buttons.

[jruley]

How does the new collar feel? It looks more relaxed than the other.

But maybe it is a bit tight. Don´t forget a finished collar is thicker, because it consists of two pieces of dress fabric and some interfacing. These sum up to the inside of the collar, and make it even tighter. (the inner parts wrinkle, the outer fabric won´t stretch).
You have to take that into account.

Your collar buttonhole is not placed right. The button should be in a line with the other buttons.

Collar feels good.  I cut it out of canvas, so think it is just as stiff or stiffer than the finished one will be.

You're right about the buttonhole, I made it before attaching the band and it didn't line up.  So I set the button over to compensate.

[jruley]

Here I have added sleeves, both sides cut from the same pattern as in post #241   of the sloper fitting thread:













Equalizing the shoulder lengths and adding with to the CF seems to have largely fixed the sleeve issues.

The M&I Kim pattern book recommends a two piece sleeve for this style shirt.  This piecing does not change the sleeve shape; it's intended either for economy of cloth or to facilitate construction of the cuff slit without a separate placket.

If a two-piece sleeve is used, I wonder if adding some width at the elbow would be a good idea to keep the sleeve from hanging up there?

[peterle]

Your elbows  and hind arm are pushing back the sleeves a bit, causing folds. I´ve to think about how to handle this. I´m not sure it can be done in a one seam sleeve.

In the meanwhile you can scoop out the back of the scye seam a bit more: just baste away a bit of the seam, crescent shaped starting a bit above the yoke seam, scooping out let´s say about 0,75-1cm of the body and sleeve (keep the scye seam sewn), rejoining the seam line at the bottom of the armhole. Maybe we can rid of the deep folds there.

I wouldn´t recommend a formed two piece sleeve in a shirt. It would look too much like a blouse or dress sleeve

But you can make the sleeve a bit slimmer by making the sleeve seam lines a bit concave instead of straight.This would probably harmonize the proportions of sleeve width and body width, without making the sleeve tighter at the base line.

[jruley]

Your elbows  and hind arm are pushing back the sleeves a bit, causing folds. I´ve to think about how to handle this. I´m not sure it can be done in a one seam sleeve.

In the meanwhile you can scoop out the back of the scye seam a bit more: just baste away a bit of the seam, crescent shaped starting a bit above the yoke seam, scooping out let´s say about 0,75-1cm of the body and sleeve (keep the scye seam sewn), rejoining the seam line at the bottom of the armhole. Maybe we can rid of the deep folds there.

I wouldn´t recommend a formed two piece sleeve in a shirt. It would look too much like a blouse or dress sleeve

But you can make the sleeve a bit slimmer by making the sleeve seam lines a bit concave instead of straight.This would probably harmonize the proportions of sleeve width and body width, without making the sleeve tighter at the base line.

Well, while you are thinking, please think about cuffs .  The pattern book suggests a very slim style of sleeve with no pleats at the cuff.  This means tapering the sleeve more in order to match up with a fitted wristband.  This taper is a straight line all the way from the sleeve cap to cuff line.  I'm concerned this would make the protruding elbows look even worse.  I like the fitted wristband though.  So, should I keep the existing cuff width and pleat it onto the wristband, or taper the sleeve from the elbow line only?

[peterle]

I prefer mine pleated. The pleats are similar to a dart, so they deliver a certain width for the elbow. The pleats should be placed next to the sleeve slash at the outside of the sleeve (not towards the body).

[Greger]

Believe that the under arm side length is to be curved.

[jruley]

In the meanwhile you can scoop out the back of the scye seam a bit more: just baste away a bit of the seam, crescent shaped starting a bit above the yoke seam, scooping out let´s say about 0,75-1cm of the body and sleeve (keep the scye seam sewn), rejoining the seam line at the bottom of the armhole. Maybe we can rid of the deep folds there.

Two slightly different changes were made to the lower back scyes:

On the left side, equal quantities were taken from the sleeve and scye as peterle suggested

On the right side, the sleeve was set slightly deeper in the scye, and the scye remained unchanged

[peterle]

What means to set the sleeve slightly deeper? Did you scoop out at the bottom of the cap?
It reduced the wrinkles on the inside of the right arm, but the back of the scye seam isn´t right yet.

I can´t verify, wether the folds at the back scye are caused by a too wide t-shirt sleeve. Please post a pic without t-shirt or with a wife beater. It would also be easier to compare it with #241.

The alteration at the left sleeve didn´t change a lot. I think the back is too wide and you should scoop out the back of the scye on the back piece.
I would do it by ripping the back of the scye seam and pinning the sleeve to the body a bit inwards.

[jruley]

Before changing anything else, here is the toile with no T-shirt:

What means to set the sleeve slightly deeper? Did you scoop out at the bottom of the cap?

Essentially yes.  But instead of actually changing the cap, I just pushed more material into the armhole in the back scye area.

I think the back is too wide and you should scoop out the back of the scye on the back piece.

If excess width is the problem, wouldn't it be better to take deeper seams at the panel lines rather than changing the scye shape?

[peterle]

It looks so much different without T-shirt!

This tells me, the back is not too wide. It was the t-shirt sleeve, that pushed the armhole down.

So when you want to wear the shirt with a t-shirt underneath, the armhole and sleeve cap must get deeper/higher. and the sleeve must be wide enough at 4cm below the cap base line. There it has to be at least 4cm wider than your biceps +t-shirt sleeve measurement. (thanks Posaune for the hint).

Probably it would be a good idea to remeasure your body´s chest measure over the t-shirt as well to compare wether there is enough ease. A t-shirt needs another 4cm ease at the chest level.

[jruley]

It looks so much different without T-shirt!

This tells me, the back is not too wide. It was the t-shirt sleeve, that pushed the armhole down.

So when you want to wear the shirt with a t-shirt underneath, the armhole and sleeve cap must get deeper/higher. and the sleeve must be wide enough at 4cm below the cap base line. There it has to be at least 4cm wider than your biceps +t-shirt sleeve measurement. (thanks Posaune for the hint).

Probably it would be a good idea to remeasure your body´s chest measure over the t-shirt as well to compare wether there is enough ease. A t-shirt needs another 4cm ease at the chest level.

I think the basic problem is that my newest (also thickest and stiffest) T-shirts are too big to wear with this fitted of a shirt.  I don't want to spoil the fit in order to accommodate an oversized undergarment.  The armscyes on these T-shirts are very deep so I'm not really surprised it caused a problem.  I have a few smaller ones I can wear, or I could buy sleeveless ones.

So, looking at the photos with no T-shirt, what remaining problems do you see?

[Greger]

There are sleeveless undershirts.