A Torso Line shirt

[jruley]

As explained in post #264  of the "marathon" close-fitting sloper thread, I want to transition to development of a torso line style fitted shirt.  The idea is similar to post #12 of this thread:

http://www.cutterandtailor.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4397&hl=%2Btorso+%2Bline#entry46231. 

With one exception:  since I already have a separate back yoke, I plan to take the back panel seam vertically upward instead of curving into the back of the scye.

I have started by marking and pinning up some darts at locations recommended in the Myoungok and Injoo Kim "Patternmaking for Menswear" book.  The mockup is worn over a T-shirt as the shirt will be, but of course the finished shirt will be worn tucked into trousers.

So, what do the more experienced folks think about the location and amount of waist suppression?

[peterle]

To get the waist surpression right, you have to mark your waistline right; yours is too deep now.

You can feel your true waist, it´s the narrowest part of the body, more or less at elbows hight, proportional it is 1/4 of your body hieght from the back nape point downwards.

The darts will have their widest part on the true waist line.

Do you want to keep the yoke as is, or do you want to run the panel seams to the shoulder seam?

[peterle]

I forgot:

Mark the panel lines on the toile where you want them to be. to find a nice line you can pin a piece of thicker thread (knitting wool) or a narrow ribbon.

For a good shaping the panel seams should run over the most protruding points ( nipples, shoulder blades/where the yoke dart begins).

[jruley]

Do you want to keep the yoke as is, or do you want to run the panel seams to the shoulder seam?

Keep it as it is.

Mark the panel lines on the toile where you want them to be. to find a nice line you can pin a piece of thicker thread (knitting wool) or a narrow ribbon.
For a good shaping the panel seams should run over the most protruding points ( nipples, shoulder blades/where the yoke dart begins).

OK, I will adjust these.  Do you think the overall amount of waist suppression is OK, or too much?

[jruley]

I have moved the dart lines in to correspond better with the nipple and shoulder blade locations.  Beyond the pins, the panel line locations are marked in pink chalk:

I think it's too much, and I should try halfway between the new and old dart line locations.  But I will wait for the teacher...

[peterle]

I think it's too much, and I should try halfway between the new and old dart line locations. 

YesI think so too. They are too far in.  make the line end a bit lower in the armhole and the curve a bit shallower. Move the lines out at the chest line for about 2cm. from there the line should run parallel to the center front.   For a shirt I wouldn´t take out anything at this line. Only very Y-formed people ( who prefer to spend their time at the fitness center and not at the sewing machine) need a waist surpression in this region. For normal people the panel line is comfortable to take out a bit of fullness at the armhole and the vertical lines flatters the body.

The back lines are too far in as well. shift them to nearly the old position, and make them vertical wich means perpendicular to the chest line/hem line. I think you have them parallel to the center back line, wich is not vertical.

Please mark the true waist line. ( how is the present lower line calculated in your pattern book?)

You can take out a bit more at the sides seams AT THE TRUE WAIST, but make them a bit shorter so the lowest 15cm (6") are the old side seam lines.

[posaune]

My idea would be to take out at side seam and no darts - especially in front! In woman- drafting the 1. dart sits under Bust point and the back is 1/3 of Rb.
The balance in front gets worser now with the darts. For me - I would add 1 cm in Bb (bust width?).

lg
posaune

[jruley]

The pattern book calculates the waist length (neck seam to waist line) as 1/4 of height plus 3/8".  For my 6 ft height this works out to 18-3/8".  This was correct on the first pattern draft, but has grown to 20" on the current toile.  To be honest I didn't track it closely since the side seams were straight.

The 18-3/8" length has been indicated with a red line.  This is now the deepest point of the pinned darts.  Looks like I could go a bit higher; indeed the pattern book recommends making the deepest point 1" above the waist line.

Line locations have been shifted as peterle requested.  Ends of the lines (and the front curved seams) are laid out with blue chalk.

Because of my scoliosis, the back panel lines appear skewed to the left at the bottom, even though they are now square to the chest and waist lines.  Should I really do this, or follow the centerline which follows my body contour?

[Henry Hall]

Your 'true' or 'natural' waistline - that being the area with greatest depression -  is usually in line with the crook of your elbows. That red line is not the point of greatest suppression of the darts. You can clearly see so in the first photo above.

[jruley]

Your 'true' or 'natural' waistline - that being the area with greatest depression -  is usually in line with the crook of your elbows. That red line is not the point of greatest suppression of the darts. You can clearly see so in the first photo above.

The red line is where the pins are set deepest - as you can clearly see in the fourth photo.  I think what is happening is the fabric is being pulled tight enough to follow the contour of my body.  I agree this shows the natural waist is higher than the red line.

[peterle]

You can see on the pics your natural waist is another 4-5cm above the red line.

To make the darts strictly vertical is necessary because they have to follow the grain, and the grain should be vertical. A slight bias of the fabric will distort the hang of the shirt and would eventually twist. slanted darts would even pronounce the slanted body. A not so important disatvantage of the vertical darts is, they will end at different spots of the body.

[hutch--]

Jim,

The pinned up darts have certainly improved the shape of the shirt.

[Henry Hall]

Your 'true' or 'natural' waistline - that being the area with greatest depression -  is usually in line with the crook of your elbows. That red line is not the point of greatest suppression of the darts. You can clearly see so in the first photo above.

The red line is where the pins are set deepest - as you can clearly see in the fourth photo.  I think what is happening is the fabric is being pulled tight enough to follow the contour of my body.  I agree this shows the natural waist is higher than the red line.

That may be where you have set the pins the deepest, but it's not the greatest point of depression. I don't quite understand the drafting system used here because normally the points like the natural waist are measured beforehand and are factored into the draft. Like e.g. on a waistcoat where you measure from neck to natural waist, and then to full length. You can't have it yo-yo-ing up and down willy-nilly.

That point of the waist will be important when you suppress with darts because if you end up suppressing too low (over the hips) the lower half will look a complete wreck. Too high and it will be tight. In Photo three above, you can see that the there is a point of the rear dart where it is deeper above the red horizontal line.

Are you planning to have front darts on a shirt for yourself, or is this for a woman's garment?

[jruley]

I don't quite understand the drafting system used here because normally the points like the natural waist are measured beforehand and are factored into the draft. Like e.g. on a waistcoat where you measure from neck to natural waist, and then to full length. You can't have it yo-yo-ing up and down willy-nilly.

Peterle asked where the draft placed the waist line, so I indicated it on the toile (red line).  This is a "proportionate" location, so it will obviously from person to person.

That point of the waist will be important when you suppress with darts because if you end up suppressing too low (over the hips) the lower half will look a complete wreck. Too high and it will be tight. In Photo three above, you can see that the there is a point of the rear dart where it is deeper above the red horizontal line.

The book calls for the deepest suppression to be 1" above the waist line (which suggests it is not the "true" waist line).  From the photos it looks like I need to go even higher as peterle observed.  These are very shallow darts, so some of what you are seeing may just be imprecise pinning - I certainly tried to get the deepest point on the red line.

Are you planning to have front darts on a shirt for yourself, or is this for a woman's garment?

There would be little point in trying a woman's garment on my body.  I assure you that my wife is a completely different shape .

To understand the style, you need to follow the link in the first post, or the blue chalk lines in the last picture set.

The finished shirt will have eight pieces in the body:  the yoke, two fronts, two front sides, two back sides, and the center back.  I want to run the seams all the way to the edges for a cleaner finish.

[Greger]

Is this an oriental style shirt?

Years ago, when I was thinner, I set the waist about an inch lower than natural waist. How tight or loose was set according to air flow, which was dependent upon two things: that the upper body wasn't clammy or cold. If it was too tight there wasn't enough air swooshing in and out to keep it from being clammy.  To loose and it let too much cold air in. The battle of the bulge has changed the rules.