A Close-Fitting Sloper

[jruley]

Here is a comparison.  Old sleeve on left, new on right:



Here the new sleeve lies on top of the old one:

[jruley]

Ease will certainly help to cover that shoulder bone. measure the armhole line and the cap line with the tape measure standing on it´s edge. the cap shloud be longer for about 3cm. The ease should be distributed around the thight area of the shoulder bone.

Ease could be a problem for many shirt fabrics.  Instead of adding ease, would it be better to increase to width of shoulder tip slightly?

[peterle]

I see some problems in your cap curve:
The cap seems very narrow  and pointy in it´s top. make the upper front side curve a bit fuller. You can shift the turning point of the front S-curve a bit downwards if necessary. The whole front S curve will be a bit steeper.

The low end of the back curve is to full. here you can shift the S-curve turning point nearly 1" upwards, and increase the distance between the bow and the diagonal.

Did You measure the cap and scye lines?

[jruley]

Did You measure the cap and scye lines?

Yes.  The fullness was distributed according to the method given in the drafting book.  Then the seams were "walked" to check the lengths and locate the pitch marks.

The cap seems very narrow  and pointy in it´s top. make the upper front side curve a bit fuller. You can shift the turning point of the front S-curve a bit downwards if necessary. The whole front S curve will be a bit steeper.

I understand this part.

The low end of the back curve is to full. here you can shift the S-curve turning point nearly 1" upwards, and increase the distance between the bow and the diagonal.

I don't understand this at all.  Do you have a diagram, or another draft I could follow?

Once again, do you think I need to add ease?  Or would it be better to make the shoulder ends a trifle wider?

[Henry Hall]

Once again, do you think I need to add ease?  Or would it be better to make the shoulder ends a trifle wider?

That will likely just cause little divots.

[jruley]

That will likely just cause little divots.

The ease, or the width?

[peterle]

What is a divot? The dictionary says it´s a piece of lawn (what doubtlessly would be a unique fashion statement).

Making the shoulders wider will only help in a very small amount. We are at the edge of the shoulder yet. Maybe 1cm outwards would help a bit. Fade in to the old lines approx. 2-3 inch from the shoulder seam.

But first I want you to try something different: the toile hangs on the shoulder bone at the moment. To distribute the weight to the whole shoulder draw a line on your toile parallely to the shoulder seam about 1-1,5 inch towards the front.
This line is the center line of a fish formed dart. Sew this dart taking out not more than 3/8 inch, fading to nothing towards the neck and to the armhole. The widest part of the dart should be a bit nearer to the neck than to the armhole.
This alteration brings your concave shoulder to the pattern, in the finished shirt pattern it will be your new front yoke seam.

I don't understand this at all.  Do you have a diagram, or another draft I could follow?

Sorry, no pics.
Transfer your cap base line to the backside of your paper pattern. Lay down the sleeve pattern on your back pattern, cap line and chest line matching, endpoints meeting at the side seam. Now you will see that the lower part of the sleeve curve "cuts off" the armhole curve of the back. It is invisible.
This is wrong. the sleeve curve has to run between the armhole curve and the chest line. It has to be shallower than the armhole in this area. Otherwise the surplus sleeve fabric will bunch up and form ugly folds. So You have to scoop out the sleeve curve in this area.

[jruley]

What is a divot? The dictionary says it´s a piece of lawn (what doubtlessly would be a unique fashion statement).

When a golfer takes too deep of a swing, he cuts out a piece of turf along with the ball.  Properly the word "divot" refers to this piece of turf, but it is sometimes used to mean the resulting dent in the ground.

So what I think Henry meant is that if I make the shoulders too wide, they will tend to collapse, with little depressions (dents or "divots") forming behind the scye seam.

I believe I understand the rest of your instructions and will try them as soon as I can.

[jruley]

Here is the front shoulder dart marked in chalk on the inside of the right shoulder of the toile:



Here is the new sleeve head pattern.  Old on left, new on right; then new sitting on top of old:

[posaune]

Jim, you are doing fine this sleeve pattern looks better the front sleeve is steeper now
But keep in mind: This is NO shirt pattern anymore.
In my opion it is better to have ease in this sleeve cap: 3-4 cm (and this is not much and you can ease it in).
Because the armhole seam runs over the prominent shoulder bone now and after this comes the rounded top of the arm. To get over this rounded area and straight down to the elbow you ease in the cap seam at certain places. So the fullness of fabric is released over the rounded top arm but sits tight at the armhole.
In a real shirt pattern this is not important because the shoulder seam is longer and the sleeve does not reach into this area.
I hope I have found the right word to explain this.
lg
posaune
Could you please show us the armhole and lay the sleeve pattern so that we can compare the front curve to front curve.

[jruley]

Here is the new sleeve head between the front and back patterns.  I was careful to match the curves as you can see:



I will cut the actual sleeve head with some inlay, and mark the curve of the pattern with a line of stitching.  If ease is necessary it can be let out in certain areas.

[jruley]

Here the right side has been altered with the transverse front dart and the new sleeve.  New sleeve was rotated forward like the last one.  Left side remains the same as in post #208.

The front dart was obviously successful.

1" of inlay was allowed beyond the 1/4" seam allowance all round the sleeve head, so there is room to make some adjustments.

[peterle]

Could you please post the pattern pieces with the sleeve flipped over? We need a pic of the front, the sleeve lying on top, chest and cap line matching, sleeve seam end point and sides seam end point meeting.
Same for the back please.
And can you mark the crossing point of the cap line and the vertical sleeve line on the toile?

Why did you rotate the sleeve forward? Did you rotate it in a way the  highest notch is more at the front? I hoped the cap alteration with a fuller front area will fit the shoulder bone without rotation.

You will ot even notice a bit of ease when sewing, but it will help to cover this shoulder bone bulge.

[jruley]

Here are the pics with the sleeve flipped over.  Top of the metal ruler is the chest line:





I cannot mark lines on the toile without taking it apart, but will do so in future.

I rotated the sleeve forward because that was required for every previous alteration.  Direction of rotation was "cuff forward" to accomodate the forward stance of my arms.  This is counterclockwise if we are looking at the right shoulder.

There is no ease in this draft yet.

[peterle]

The lower front armhole curve could be scooped ot a bit more. It yet cuts off the armhole curve of the front.

I would love to see a version with the sleeve set in unrotated. Side seam and sleeve seam meeting, vertical line of ths sleeve meeting the shoulder seam. (I know, I know, don´t hate me; maybe it helps to call it practicing). Don´t care for the cuffs at the moment. A tight one seam sleeve without darts will always wrinkle in the crook of the arm.